Camera resolution questions

[brett8883]

Just to be clear the Mavic Air 2 doesn't use interpolation for its 48MP output as it does genuinely have 48 megapixels but they're extremely small and a different layout to a normal bayer sensor with the intention that it behaves similar to a 12MP but with improvements.

My first full frame camera was the 12MP Nikon D700 and I'd still take its output over most cameras, these days I'm still only on 25MP for my full frame cameras as I did try a 42MP Sony but I wasn't getting the benefit from the higher resolution which can take quite a bit of work to take advantage of.

All sensors use interpolation during the demosaicing precess but the quad Bayer filter has to do more because different color pixels are further apart from each other.

“...a 12MP sensor, for example, has 6 million pixels that see green, and 3 million pixels each for red and blue. Green gets more pixels because the human eye is the most sensitive to that color. An algorithm called demosaicing is used to interpolate a full 12MP resolution image...

In a Quad Bayer filter, the pixels of different color are further apart, so demosaicing is less effective (despite what makers claim). So, you’re definitely not getting 4x the detail in 48MP mode than you do in 12MP” (Quad Bayer sensors: what they are and what they are not)

 

[Johnmcl7]

All sensors use interpolation during the demosaicing precess but the quad Bayer filter has to do more because different color pixels are further apart from each other.

“...a 12MP sensor, for example, has 6 million pixels that see green, and 3 million pixels each for red and blue. Green gets more pixels because the human eye is the most sensitive to that color. An algorithm called demosaicing is used to interpolate a full 12MP resolution image...

In a Quad Bayer filter, the pixels of different color are further apart, so demosaicing is less effective (despite what makers claim). So, you’re definitely not getting 4x the detail in 48MP mode than you do in 12MP” (Quad Bayer sensors: what they are and what they are not)

If you're going to use that definition then there is never any point in mentioning it since all cameras are the same in that regard. There are several posts highlighting the interpolation on the Mavic Air 2 which implies it is interpolating to produce a higher pixel count from a lower number of physical pixels which isn't the case, it's technically not a 12MP sensor so it's not interpolating 12MP output to get 48MP.

I don't know if you're getting confused with posts here when you're quoting my own posts back to me but I do read my posts so there's no need for that:

Camera resolution questions

So after many searches it's still not crystal clear to me the differences between cameras on the Pro 2 vs the Air 2. On the face of it the 48 megapixel option for the Air 2 would seem like a no brainer, but those conversations often get into the technical details of just how the different...

mavicpilots.com

 

[brett8883]

If you're going to use that definition then there is never any point in mentioning it since all cameras are the same in that regard. There are several posts highlighting the interpolation on the Mavic Air 2 which implies it is interpolating to produce a higher pixel count from a lower number of physical pixels which isn't the case, it's technically not a 12MP sensor so it's not interpolating 12MP output to get 48MP.

I don't know if you're getting confused with posts here when you're quoting my own posts back to me but I do read my posts so there's no need for that:

Camera resolution questions

So after many searches it's still not crystal clear to me the differences between cameras on the Pro 2 vs the Air 2. On the face of it the 48 megapixel option for the Air 2 would seem like a no brainer, but those conversations often get into the technical details of just how the different...

mavicpilots.com

Ahh maybe we did have a case of circular feedback loop.

There were posts about demosaicing interpolation and good old fashion upscaling so maybe I was confused

 

[sar104]

If you're going to use that definition then there is never any point in mentioning it since all cameras are the same in that regard. There are several posts highlighting the interpolation on the Mavic Air 2 which implies it is interpolating to produce a higher pixel count from a lower number of physical pixels which isn't the case, it's technically not a 12MP sensor so it's not interpolating 12MP output to get 48MP.

I don't think it's a 48 MP sensor in any meaningful sense, because it doesn't have 48 million independent RGB photosite groups - it has 12 million split RGB photosite groups. To illustrate, for a sensor of the same size as the IMX586, this is what a 0.16 x 0.16 µm region would look like under the various options:



The IMX586 has the same basic spatial resolution as a simple 12 MP Bayer - the spatial frequency of each color channel is still the same as the 12 MP sensor, and requires more interpolation to increase the frequency to 48 MP, and doesn't achieve the resolution of a true 48 MP Bayer sensor. What it does permit is multiple simultaneous exposures by changing the gain amongst the split photosites, but that doesn't help with resolution.

 

[CountryGuy]

There are some sample images here, both 12 and 48 Mp resolution: DJI Mavic Air 2 sample gallery
To my eye, they look a bit soft when viewed at 1:1. I don't think the tiny lens is really resolving 48 Mp and is already diffraction limited at f 2.8.
In low light, the M2 Pro will certainly be better. In the brightest light, it is hard to say if the MA2 would resolve more than the 20 Mp of the M2 Pro. I have yet to find any side by side still images to compare the two.

Thanks for the link, quite helpful.

 

[CountryGuy]

I have used the M Pro 2 for mostly still landscapes in low light (sunrise, late afternoon, sunset) in our mountainous area. I am able to offer beautiful raw photography that easily enlarges to 24 by 36 after Light Room and Luminar. Just completed a physician office with 18 local shots. That camera is excellent once you master all the nuances of the drone and camera system. No regrets using it whatsoever. (I do have part 107)

Not to get too far OT here, but could you comment a bit as to how your workflow utilizes Luminar? Never tried it myself although I will look at their eval when I get some time. I do own and like Aurora HDR and it appears that's the same company.

 

[Johnmcl7]

I don't think it's a 48 MP sensor in any meaningful sense, because it doesn't have 48 million independent RGB photosite groups - it has 12 million split RGB photosite groups. To illustrate, for a sensor of the same size as the IMX586, this is what a 0.16 x 0.16 µm region would look like under the various options:

The IMX586 has the same basic spatial resolution as a simple 12 MP Bayer - the spatial frequency of each color channel is still the same as the 12 MP sensor, and requires more interpolation to increase the frequency to 48 MP, and doesn't achieve the resolution of a true 48 MP Bayer sensor. What it does permit is multiple simultaneous exposures by changing the gain amongst the split photosites, but that doesn't help with resolution.

That's a fair good explanation and I certainly agree it's not a 48MP camera, when I was talking about interpolation I was thinking of some of the old Fuji sensors like this:

Fujifilm FinePix 4900Z Review

Radical. Futuristic. I heard several descriptions leveled at the 4900Z while at Photokina 2000 this year. Certainly when Fujifilm first hinted and then later announced the 4900Z a lot of people oohed and ahhed at the design. Echoes of SLR, yet modern looks and an attractive feature set...

www.dpreview.com

This was a 2.4MP sensor but produced 4.3MP images purely from interpolation which they claimed they could do better because of the sensor design.

While the quad bayer design does offer some potential advantages in exposing the pixels differently it's frustrating to see DJI market it as a 48MP camera and just from looking around here seeing how successful that misleading marketing is.

 

[CountryGuy]

The IMX586 has the same basic spatial resolution as a simple 12 MP Bayer - the spatial frequency of each color channel is still the same as the 12 MP sensor, and requires more interpolation to increase the frequency to 48 MP, and doesn't achieve the resolution of a true 48 MP Bayer sensor. What it does permit is multiple simultaneous exposures by changing the gain amongst the split photosites, but that doesn't help with resolution.

Well certainly my understanding of the factors involved with respect to DJIs sensors has some a long way given this and other excellent explanations posted here.

A somewhat related question if I may, understanding that I've never laid eyes on any DJI craft since I bought a Phantom 1 way back when. Switched to 3DR shortly after that.

When it comes to RAW files can you capture only in RAW or must it be RAW + JPG? The latter seems to be the case from what I'm reading. Not a big deal either way but of course RAW has numerous advantages if one expect to work on their images in post.

Also, am I correct in assuming that RAW files would be created at 12 MP?

 

[sar104]

Well certainly my understanding of the factors involved with respect to DJIs sensors has some a long way given this and other excellent explanations posted here.

A somewhat related question if I may, understanding that I've never laid eyes on any DJI craft since I bought a Phantom 1 way back when. Switched to 3DR shortly after that.

When it comes to RAW files can you capture only in RAW or must it be RAW + JPG? The latter seems to be the case from what I'm reading. Not a big deal either way but of course RAW has numerous advantages if one expect to work on their images in post.

Also, am I correct in assuming that RAW files would be created at 12 MP?

On the M2P the options are JPEG, RAW, or JPEG + RAW. I'd expect it to be the same. The MA2 will save 48 MP raw files, not just JPEG.