Canada - Parks Canada land

[richiebee709]

I wrote to Parks Canada to try and get a map showing the boundaries of their sites here locally, so I can avoid them, since you're not allowed to fly on Parks Canada areas. They don't have such a thing apparently. The centre of sites is pretty obvious, and we have a couple of them, but I have no idea how far their land goes, they are not fenced, and they can't seem to tell me.

Anyone else come across this problem and solved it?

 

[GFields]

Should be able to see via Google Maps (I think)

 

[mavic3usa]

I wrote to Parks Canada to try and get a map showing the boundaries of their sites here locally, so I can avoid them, since you're not allowed to fly on Parks Canada areas. They don't have such a thing apparently. The centre of sites is pretty obvious, and we have a couple of them, but I have no idea how far their land goes, they are not fenced, and they can't seem to tell me.

Anyone else come across this problem and solved it?

If it's anything like the US, you should be able to make a public records request or FOIA for the information under some type of freedom of information act. If they cannot provide, they will tell you so in your request which you should keep in case the government itself can't tell you the boundaries but one of the agents for the government can tell you when you are confronted. However, you should have a drone app that clearly shows this.

 

[richiebee709]

Should be able to see via Google Maps (I think)

Sadly not. Not even the boundaries of our two National Parks are indicated, and other than these, Parks Canada areas, at least here, are much smaller.

They are not indicated on the NAV Canada app either.

 

[kndll]

just go each parks website and view the map there and cross reference it with any other map , i've flown from outside my local park , looking in , you just can't take off or land from inside the park .

 

[Chrislaf]

I wrote to Parks Canada to try and get a map showing the boundaries of their sites here locally, so I can avoid them, since you're not allowed to fly on Parks Canada areas. They don't have such a thing apparently. The centre of sites is pretty obvious, and we have a couple of them, but I have no idea how far their land goes, they are not fenced, and they can't seem to tell me.

Anyone else come across this problem and solved it?

You might be able to get a map in one of the cities or towns the National Park encompasses. When we were in Newfoundland a couple of summers ago I asked the Parks Canada staff if there was any areas you could fly a drone in. They provided me with a map of the areas I could legally fly within Rocky Harbour. Areas outside of the townsite were not allowed but I was surprised at the areas within the town that were allowed.

Chris

 

[richiebee709]

just go each parks website and view the map there and cross reference it with any other map , i've flown from outside my local park , looking in , you just can't take off or land from inside the park .

What about those sites that don't have a map? Take Cape Spear for example (Cape Spear Lighthouse National Historic Site). No map. The trails are serviced by the East Coast Trail Association, so not by Parks Canada. So you can't tell where the boundary of the Parks Canada area is. Here it is on Google Maps - Google Maps. No clue where the Parks Canada land ends.

 

[richiebee709]

You might be able to get a map in one of the cities or towns the National Park encompasses. When we were in Newfoundland a couple of summers ago I asked the Parks Canada staff if there was any areas you could fly a drone in. They provided me with a map of the areas I could legally fly within Rocky Harbour. Areas outside of the townsite were not allowed but I was surprised at the areas within the town that were allowed.

Chris

I'm not referring to National Parks. The places I'm talking about are called "Parks Canada places".

 

[mavic3usa]

What about those sites that don't have a map? Take Cape Spear for example (Cape Spear Lighthouse National Historic Site). No map. The trails are serviced by the East Coast Trail Association, so not by Parks Canada. So you can't tell where the boundary of the Parks Canada area is. Here it is on Google Maps - Google Maps. No clue where the Parks Canada land ends.

http://parkscanadahistory.com/publications/spear/mgt-plan-e-2016.pdf

 

[Chrislaf]

If you are referring to National Historic sites managed by Parks Canada then I would go with the assumption you can't fly there. You can always ask the staff at the location whether flying a drone is permitted. FWIW all of the National Historic sites we visited on our trip had clear NO DRONES ALLOWED signs so I didn't even bother asking and didn't fly my drone.

Chris

 

[richiebee709]

http://parkscanadahistory.com/publications/spear/mgt-plan-e-2016.pdf

How did you find this?

 

[richiebee709]

If you are referring to National Historic sites managed by Parks Canada then I would go with the assumption you can't fly there. You can always ask the staff at the location whether flying a drone is permitted. FWIW all of the National Historic sites we visited on our trip had clear NO DRONES ALLOWED signs so I didn't even bother asking and didn't fly my drone.

Chris

You're misunderstanding the problem. I don't really know how to describe it in a better way because I have never been to a Parks Canada site that isn't here, so I don't know what they're like in other provinces. The problem is that I don't know where the boundaries of these National Historic sites are. Now, one of the sites I'm interested in is the area around Cape Spear (this is the most Easterly point of North America in case you're wondering on the significance). I can easily avoid the parking lot, and the two lighthouses which are obviously part of the Parks Canada site, but there is no fence that designates the boundary. Cape Spear itself is a wonderful place for a sunrise, and moving around the coast, would be equally spectacular. So, if the Parks Canada site ends close to the second lighthouse, it would be within easy walking distance (about 1-2km) to get some really spectacular footage. But this could potentially still be Parks Canada land, and that's my point. I don't know.

Mavic3usa found this pdf publication on a third party site that was the Management Plan for Cape Spear, and on Page 4 of that plan is a map that shows the boundary. I don't know how they found the document, or how they knew there would be a map that showed the boundary in it, but if this is what is required to determine whether a site can be flown from, that's a little ridiculous. I just did another search in Google, and came across the same document, but the same thing... no indication that the document would contain information on the boundary.

This IS the information I was looking for, so I think I'm good for Cape Spear with Mavic3usa's help. But how does anyone ever find this stuff? Do you just keep reading every Google hit until you come across it? And I mean, deep within each Google hit. How does anyone have that kind of time to research what may or may not potentially be a site suitable for flying?

And even with this... its hardly a reliable source. A publication, unrelated to flying regulation, from eight years ago.

 

[Chrislaf]

I do understand the problem - you want to fly from outside the site boundary. I would say your best bet is to talk to the staff who manage the site - they should know where the boundaries are.

Chris

 

[richiebee709]

Yeah, fair enough. I was looking for an easier way. It's an hour round trip. I'd be going either for around sunrise, or around sunset, so the information centre isn't going to be open. In fact, it wouldn't be open again until next summer anyway. I think I'll go by the report for this area. At least I have some evidence that I went to the trouble of finding the boundaries - if they have changed, then I imagine they'd be pretty understanding that I couldn't find the information on their own web site. For Signal Hill area, I'm going to assume that the green area around it on the Parks Canada map, is their boundary. It's not labeled as such, but looks like it kind of makes sense. Their information centre is a lot more comprehensive, so there is more chance of getting information from them there. Not sure if they're open year round, but shouldn't be too difficult to find out.

 

[mavic3usa]

How did you find this?

It's in here somewhere, can't reproduce it exactly but: "parks Canada" Cape Spear Lighthouse National Historic Site "boundaries" Management

Pretty much digging around using Google search terms and refining the search as you go along. Took about 15 minutes.

 

[Chrislaf]

Yeah, fair enough. I was looking for an easier way. It's an hour round trip. I'd be going either for around sunrise, or around sunset, so the information centre isn't going to be open. In fact, it wouldn't be open again until next summer anyway. I think I'll go by the report for this area. At least I have some evidence that I went to the trouble of finding the boundaries - if they have changed, then I imagine they'd be pretty understanding that I couldn't find the information on their own web site. For Signal Hill area, I'm going to assume that the green area around it on the Parks Canada map, is their boundary. It's not labeled as such, but looks like it kind of makes sense. Their information centre is a lot more comprehensive, so there is more chance of getting information from them there. Not sure if they're open year round, but shouldn't be too difficult to find out.

Never got to cape Spear when we were in NL but did get to Signal Hill. You are fortunate to live in such a beautiful province.

Chris

 

[DarR-T]

Airspace is a Transport Canada jurisdiction. Although, you may not take-off or land in Parks Canada but you may fly over it unless some other restriction prevents you from doing so. A NOTAM for a forest fire comes to mind here. For all intents and purpose, knowing that you're out of the park is a forgone conclusion. Following that, it can't be an offensible issue considering that you must maintain VLOS.

 

[richiebee709]

It's in here somewhere, can't reproduce it exactly but: "parks Canada" Cape Spear Lighthouse National Historic Site "boundaries" Management

Pretty much digging around using Google search terms and refining the search as you go along. Took about 15 minutes.

Maybe "management" was the key. I would never have thought of that. I really appreciate your time on this. Thanks!

 

[richiebee709]

Never got to cape Spear when we were in NL but did get to Signal Hill. You are fortunate to live in such a beautiful province.

Chris

Its certainly rugged. Wish we had what they have on the West Coast (Gros Morne), but hey, this is where the work is!

 

[Dale D]

I wrote to Parks Canada to try and get a map showing the boundaries of their sites here locally, so I can avoid them, since you're not allowed to fly on Parks Canada areas. They don't have such a thing apparently. The centre of sites is pretty obvious, and we have a couple of them, but I have no idea how far their land goes, they are not fenced, and they can't seem to tell me.

Anyone else come across this problem and solved it?

Google maps will show all of the green outlined parks. I faced this dilemma on my trip there last year.