"Commercial Operations"- is this legal? (UK)

[Tanushiheadbash]

Hi
I am looking for a bit guidance just so I stay on the right side of the law. I was invited on a fishing trip recently by a friend, who runs a company that takes anglers on fishing trips here in Scotland. I got a spare bed in the accommodation he had hired and other than the free bed, paid my own way in regards of travel, fishing, food and drink. I was asked if there were any photo's I took could he use them to promote his business on social media) and I have no problem with that. I received no payments and the photos are in essence mine for my own use.
I also recorded tons of video both using various terrestrial cameras but also my Mavic Air which I used to make a wee video for my own Blog and YouTube channel. ( this is a hobby it makes no significant revenue other than the odd google ad income) .

He really liked the video and I thought it would be a nice gesture to make him a cut down version of the video that he could also use to promote his business.
I have not received money nor would I expect to receive anything for doing this.
I was not contracted in anyway to do anything for him, this entirely of my own volition.
On the CAA website, on the section on guidance as to what is and isn't commercial operations it says that if you own your own business and have your own drone, you can legally use video and photos taken with that drone and it is not classed as Commercial operations.
This is the example quoted:

• Generation of self-marketing material to display an object, event or other activity. An individual or business would not usually be considered to be conducting commercial operations if the flight is provided only for their own use. Example: A charity, educational establishment, local authority or business acquires a drone which is used (and flown by its own staff) to provide aerial imagery for incorporation into its own promotional material.

If I simply make him a video of the cuts that might be of interest to him ( mostly ones without me in!) and give it to him for no remuneration or obligation to supply, is that OK in the eyes of the CAA and their definitions of Commercial operations. I have used the form on their website to ask this same question but have received no reply. despite it being over a week ago.
Anyone know?

 

[Meta4]

is that OK in the eyes of the CAA and their definitions of Commercial operations. I have used the form on their website to ask this same question but have received no reply. despite it being over a week ago.
Anyone know?

Doubtless you'll find fundamentalists who will tell you that it's a serious offense.
But the CAA have more important things to do and not enough resources to worry about such trivialities.
They see their core business as maintaining aviation safety rather than policing who you can give a few photos to.
It's the flying that the CAA care about.
You took the photos quite legally.
Giving away a few photos later doesn't magically make your past flights now illegal.

 

[AnzacJack]

Just do it mate. It sounds like a one off

 

[FoxhallGH]

Just do it - but make sure you aren't mentioned in conjunction with the video (no credits on the website!).

 

[Jerry]

I thought if you take footage that you had no intention of using commercially and then after the event you subsequently used the footage commercially that was ok and legal anyways.

 

[FoxhallGH]

I thought if you take footage that you had no intention of using commercially and then after the event you subsequently used the footage commercially that was ok and legal anyways.

That would be too easy then wouldn't it ... It would be nice, because nobody would need commercial licenses then, we'd just use that excuse ...

 

[ataraxia]

I've tried asking about what "commercial operations" are and not got much of a solid response. Bearing in mind the consequences of falling foul of this law and the ridiculous costs involved in getting a commercial licence, I feel like this should be more properly defined in law

 

[FoxhallGH]

Hi
I am looking for a bit guidance just so I stay on the right side of the law. I was invited on a fishing trip recently by a friend, who runs a company that takes anglers on fishing trips here in Scotland. I got a spare bed in the accommodation he had hired and other than the free bed, paid my own way in regards of travel, fishing, food and drink. I was asked if there were any photo's I took could he use them to promote his business on social media) and I have no problem with that. I received no payments and the photos are in essence mine for my own use.
I also recorded tons of video both using various terrestrial cameras but also my Mavic Air which I used to make a wee video for my own Blog and YouTube channel. ( this is a hobby it makes no significant revenue other than the odd google ad income) .

He really liked the video and I thought it would be a nice gesture to make him a cut down version of the video that he could also use to promote his business.
I have not received money nor would I expect to receive anything for doing this.
I was not contracted in anyway to do anything for him, this entirely of my own volition.
On the CAA website, on the section on guidance as to what is and isn't commercial operations it says that if you own your own business and have your own drone, you can legally use video and photos taken with that drone and it is not classed as Commercial operations.
This is the example quoted:

• Generation of self-marketing material to display an object, event or other activity. An individual or business would not usually be considered to be conducting commercial operations if the flight is provided only for their own use. Example: A charity, educational establishment, local authority or business acquires a drone which is used (and flown by its own staff) to provide aerial imagery for incorporation into its own promotional material.

If I simply make him a video of the cuts that might be of interest to him ( mostly ones without me in!) and give it to him for no remuneration or obligation to supply, is that OK in the eyes of the CAA and their definitions of Commercial operations. I have used the form on their website to ask this same question but have received no reply. despite it being over a week ago.
Anyone know?

If you can get the Fishing guy to swear he'll say that the photography was done by his brother, sister or cousin or some family member - then that will get around it - because there is this loophole that allows you to use YOUR own drone to further YOUR own 'advertising'. The problem comes when you are identified as the pilot, and you have to prove you got no payment of any sort for the material you handed over ...

 

[Meta4]

The problem comes when you are identified as the pilot, and you have to prove you got no payment of any sort for the material you handed over ...

But that problem just doesn't come.
The CAA are much too busy with real issues and care a lot less about who took some photos than forum members do.

 

[FoxhallGH]

But that problem just doesn't come.
The CAA are much too busy with real issues and care a lot less about who took some photos than forum members do.

Probably quite true - but if you make sure that you have put it all in the'right' context. It never comes back to bite you. We do hear of drone pilots being hunted down in the US due to YouTube postings of flights in restricted areas and that does seem to be something that the FAA is hot on, but as you say Meta4, somebody at the CAA or FAA would be hard pressed to justify chasing a pilot down to just find out if some footage was commercial or not ...

 

[Jerry]

Not really spending much time on this topic at the moment, but from the CAA website “A commercial operation is defined as:
‘flight by a small unmanned aircraft except a flight for public transport, or any operation of any other aircraft except an operation for public transport;

which is available to the public;
or
which, when not made available to the public,
in the case of a flight by a small unmanned aircraft, is performed under a contract between the SUA operator and a customer, where the latter has no control over the remote pilot

or

in any other case, is performed under a contract between an operator and a customer, where the latter has no control over the operator,
in return for remuneration or other valuable consideration.’

The key elements in understanding this term are ‘…any flight by a small unmanned aircraft…in return for remuneration or other valuable consideration’.”

The last paragraph would seem to clarify the CAA position on stopping private uses from accepting payment for any photos or videos.

Further reading on forums I picked up that if I give photos to someone free of charge and then they asked me to edit the photos I can charge for this work while not charging directly for the photo, this would need to be documented and probably not worth the effort, I’m just making the point.

I also believe there is no justification for stopping private recreational flyers from gaining remuneration from their hobby.

Also, just a thought, I take a photo, I enter it into a photo competition, I win, I receive remuneration by way of a prize, ... is this legal?

One last point ... ffs we vote these people in to power and pay them and their minions wages to come up with ways to curtail our hobbies, creative endeavours and generally find ways to make money from us so that when they are successful they can pat each other on their backs and pay yet more people to debate and decide how much of a pay rise they should award themselves. ...

 

[Meta4]

Further reading on forums I picked up that if I give photos to someone free of charge and then they asked me to edit the photos I can charge for this work while not charging directly for the photo, this would need to be documented and probably not worth the effort, I’m just making the point.

That's one of those forum myths that just never dies.
It's nonsense and wouldn't fool anyone for 1/100th of a second.

Also, just a thought, I take a photo, I enter it into a photo competition, I win, I receive remuneration by way of a prize, ... is this legal?

There is no law or regulation against winning a prize in a photo competition.
If there was, how would that work?
Would just the winner be guilty or all entrants?

The CAA rules are about flying - not selling photos.
In both of these situations, the issue is that any potential offence is one of unlicensed commercial flight, not selling a photo or winning a prize.

The earnest discussions in forums about whether you can give away a photo or enter a contest are a joke.
The fact is that despite the large number of operators blatantly engaging in unlicensed commercial drone work, the CAA and FAA have hardly fined anyone.

 

[Jerry]

Hi Meta, re your comments on comp entry / winning .. the CAA is making / enforcing rules re selling photos ,, as far as your questions, I don’t know the answer I was just thinking aloud .. I agree few folk have been fined for unlicensed commercial work, hover that doesn’t meet the owners won’t be exercised in the future and existing or increased legislation should be challenged where applicable.