Crop dusters below 500' AGL

[tlswift58]

It's after the flying season for farms in the U.S. (today is December 1st) but a conversation earlier in the year with a farmer made me realize how things could go sour quickly. I introduced myself and asked if it was ok if I flew nearby and took video of his tractors working in the field. He told me it sounded fun and I was welcome to video but I might want to hurry because the crop duster working the next field would be back shortly and would be passing overhead. I chose not to take any chances and didn't put my drone in the air.

Full-scale aircraft pilots that perform farming operations (crop dusting, planting, fertilizing, defoliation, etc.) will regularly drop down near the ground and don't have to follow the fixed wing aircraft rule of 500' AGL floor. I won't pretend to know all the rules involved there. They stay relatively low when they bank around for the next pass.

Even through they're below 500' AGL, I'm pretty sure I know where the blame would fall following a collision with a drone even if it occurred in Class E airspace at 50' AGL. As fast as they fly, we might not be able to get out of the way if they appeared unexpectedly. The bigger issue is possibility of catastrophic results for the airplane pilot.

Just food for thought.

Was a previous post / comments on very subject and 600 ft AGL for aircraft is a MISNOMER and not correct.

And you can bet should an incident happen - YOU will be the bad guy. That is why remaining in VLOS and very situationally aware EVERY drone pilot has to be to make those chances very slim.

Doubtful that a crop-duster may have the necessary equipment to work with your ADS-B, if you have an Air2 and above; but was flying at sunset 2 days ago and a small private plane came near. ADS-B was squawking big time. They were very low - maybe 600 ft and came maybe within a few hundred yards of the drone. I had full visual of both the aircraft and the drone and there was plenty of space between us as I watched the aircraft fly on by- ready to drop my drone at a moments notice.

 

[hiflyer201]

It's is the RESPONSIBIGLITY of every UAS Operator to never interfere with manned aircraft.

Big Al said it all! there is nothing more to say PERIOD!

 

[Zbip57]

[...] crewed aircraft of all kinds are usually pretty noisy.

I've always been convinced I would hear any approaching aircraft.

While visiting a cousin in Germany, we flew my drone over his house. After we had already landed the drone (so no actual danger here), we were watching a replay of the video when the shadow of an aircraft swept right over us. Yikes.

A completely silent glider plane crossed overhead of the house! It was considerably higher than where we'd been flying the drone (so again no actual danger). But it still totally freaked me out.

The prop whine from the flying drone makes appreciably more noise than that silently gliding sailplane. And, since we had all been watching either the video screen or the drone itself, it's unlikely any of us would ever have noticed that approaching glider.

 

[Dharris6891]

If you plan on flying in that area frequently, maybe work on good line of communication with the farmer(s) in the area. A quick phone call or text to ask if they have have aerial spraying operations planned when you plan to fly could make life a lot easier and less stressful.

 

[dronerdave]

I fly at least 2 times a week off of active or restricted runways and often have to yield to manned aircraft. I don't have enough fingers to count the number of low flybys we get on a yearly basis. We are required to have spotters to lessen the risk but there are still times that the manned aircraft isn't seen or heard until it's almost on you. It's the RC pilots responsibility to get out of the way...period. If you feel there is a chance of an encounter, you need to weight the risk whether to fly or not and if you do decide to launch, fly safely enough to be able to avoid an incident. That means VLOS at a manageable distance to safely avoid manned aircraft whether they are or aren't supposed to be there. And while most radial engines are a bit more noticeable (as are choppers), many other planes can be, and often are quite stealthy when they are coming right at you. I doubt an excuse like there was no way for me to avoid the manned aircraft because I couldn't hear it will hold a lot of water in court if there was a bad incident. Our group works with the owners of the runways and the people flying the full sized aircraft at and around our flying site, but unannounced random flybys happen. I've found that one necessary procedure is being aware of your surrounding even if it means a dedicated spotter and knowing that RC pilots might have to ditch if necessary. Unfortunately flying at different locations makes it more risky to take to the sky so you need to weight if the location is safe enough to do so in the first place.

 

[BleugrassBoy]

I also live in a highly agricultural area. The crop dusters absolutely fly very low - but they are very noisy (they don’t call them air tractors for nothing) and so it’s easy to tell when they are anywhere close to where I might fly.

But also this - they are usually only in that area for a day or less - maybe a couple times a year.

I do exactly what you did.
Be smart and be safe.
If they are around, I just wait and fly another day.

 

[EaglePrecision]

I have had two F-16s fly below my mavic. I was flying a waterfall and transiting to the falls. There are no restrictions, or moa warnings in the area. This is on a mountain pass, where the lake makes a 1000’ drop. I was over the waterfall at 400’ when they came up the steep canyon, flying nap of the earth, at an angle a rocket would be proud of. They passed by below the drone, the turbulence nearly sending the drone down into the rocks below. I had no warning other than a few seconds. I could not hear them. I in fact was so surprised, I made no adjustments to the drone till they had passed, trying to stop the drone from crashing. Don’t fly there anymore.

Just wanted to let you know that I had the same thing happen to me in rural NC while photographing a vacant property for a land inspection. They came out of nowhere and were gone before i could take a breath - EVO II Pro bounced around but recovered. No airports or MOAs in the vicinity. I landed immediately and took deep breaths thinking about what could've happened if the drone went into one of their intakes.

 

[MS Coast]

It's after the flying season for farms in the U.S. (today is December 1st) but a conversation earlier in the year with a farmer made me realize how things could go sour quickly. I introduced myself and asked if it was ok if I flew nearby and took video of his tractors working in the field. He told me it sounded fun and I was welcome to video but I might want to hurry because the crop duster working the next field would be back shortly and would be passing overhead. I chose not to take any chances and didn't put my drone in the air.

Full-scale aircraft pilots that perform farming operations (crop dusting, planting, fertilizing, defoliation, etc.) will regularly drop down near the ground and don't have to follow the fixed wing aircraft rule of 500' AGL floor. I won't pretend to know all the rules involved there. They stay relatively low when they bank around for the next pass.

Even through they're below 500' AGL, I'm pretty sure I know where the blame would fall following a collision with a drone even if it occurred in Class E airspace at 50' AGL. As fast as they fly, we might not be able to get out of the way if they appeared unexpectedly. The bigger issue is possibility of catastrophic results for the airplane pilot.

Just food for thought.

Drones are always required to give way to manned and other aircraft.

14 CFR § 107.37 - Operation near aircraft; right-of-way rules.

www.law.cornell.edu

FAA regulations allow manned aircraft to fly below 500' over water and in sparsely populated areas.

14 CFR § 91.119 - Minimum safe altitudes: General.

www.law.cornell.edu

 

[umanbean]

A Cessna Ag Tractor or Grumman Ag Cat are LOUD, I've flown in both.... anyone who can't hear one coming from a distance is about half deef

 

[Daytona500]

I think you misunderstood what I'm trying to say. If there was no means of warning the UAS operator, how can they be punished for what was not communicated to them? If they indeed get waivers as you said, then there should be a warning SOMEWHERE for the drone pilot to know that there will be low flying aircraft in the vicinity and to take precautions. Nowhere did I say that the pilot should only move if it's convenient. I specifically stated, "if you CANNOT take evasive measures." That's also stated in PilotInstitute's course that you must try to take evasive measures. If you cannot, what can you do? Nothing, you weren't warned and you couldn't act in time. No way such a flimsy argument could stand up in a court of law.

Its your duty to know that your flying over a farmers feild and the possibility of crop dusters exists . Theres no excuse for not knowing. It would be your fault if you hit or him you and you will be held responsible

 

[MS Coast]

@BSauce955 with regards to your post #9 then the only safe way to fly in those fields you mentioned,that are surrounded by trees would be to stay below the tree line at all times ,and be in constant VLOS
or better still avoid flying in the area completely ,

Flying below the tree line isn't adequate. Crop dusters typically operate well below the tree tops. It's typical to see their wheels ten feet above the top of the crops they're spraying.

 

[umanbean]

It's typical to see their wheels ten feet above the top of the crops they're spraying.

And it was typical for a good friend of mine to come back for another load with peanut vines hanging from his wheel struts LOL.... he's retired now but dang he was good!

 

[dronerdave]

A Cessna Ag Tractor or Grumman Ag Cat are LOUD, I've flown in both.... anyone who can't hear one coming from a distance is about half deef

If they come over a hill you often never hear them coming...even a helicopter. I fly off active runways a lot and have had planes coming in landing... often never hear them coming. I'm far from deef and neither were the other RC flyers on site that day. The worst was this (or similar) jet that came rolling down the runway about 100 feet in the air. The runway belongs to them but they usually tell us when they plan to use it.



Same with the CHP or Sheriff dept training out there. On this day the Sheriff landed and told us to be careful while they trained. We don't stop flying, we just give way to them. But I doubt "I lost control of the UAS" would work well as an excuse if we had some kind of encounter. YMMV.

 

[Ty Pilot]

A Cessna Ag Tractor or Grumman Ag Cat are LOUD, I've flown in both.... anyone who can't hear one coming from a distance is about half deef

The problem is; not everyone flying a drone, is in a silent environment when the low, loud aircraft approaches.
Working on a construction site with heavy machinery or a vacant lot next to a busy hiway are just two examples, both of which I have had a sub 500 foot manned aircraft fly over, with very little to no warning due to the noise level of my work environment.

But yeah, had it been a corn field in Idaho, I would have heard them easily