DJI Neo <249 Grams Over Traffic

[TheGroove]

I want to get some feedback on this from some of our experts, assuming it's legal and clear airspace and the flight meets all other requirements. can we fly the category 1 (sub 249 G) with prop guards over moving traffic with a Part 107 without a waiver?

 

[Droning on and on...]

I await those more expert than me for a definitive answer. So don't take this as gospel.

That said, I've read what I think are the applicable parts of the FARs many times, and as far as I can tell, the answer is yes. For recreational pilots too. Including over people.

 

[TheGroove]

I await those more expert than me for a definitive answer. So don't take this as gospel.

That said, I've read what I think are the applicable parts of the FARs many times, and as far as I can tell, the answer is yes. For recreational pilots too. Including over people.

This is also my take.

 

[Vic Moss]

I await those more expert than me for a definitive answer. So don't take this as gospel.

That said, I've read what I think are the applicable parts of the FARs many times, and as far as I can tell, the answer is yes. For recreational pilots too. Including over people.

Not for recreational flyers. They have to fly using a CBO safety guidelines. None allow that.

 

[Vic Moss]

If the drone can qualify for Category 1 flights (including RID), people holding a 107 can fly over people inside moving vehicles. But they cannot have sustained flights over those vehicles, just transit over them.

 

[TheGroove]

If the drone can qualify for Category 1 flights (including RID), people holding a 107 can fly over people inside moving vehicles. But they cannot have sustained flights over those vehicles, just transit over them.

Is remote ID required? This is the flyer from DJI directly.

 

[Vic Moss]

Is remote ID required? This is the flyer from DJI directly.

View attachment 177101

If you're flying under 107 rules, then yes. All 107 flights require Remote ID, because all 107 flights require a registered drone. And all registered drones require Remote ID, regardless of weight. The key word in the DJI add is "recreational".

 

[TheGroove]

If you're flying under 107 rules, then yes. All 107 flights require Remote ID, because all 107 flights require a registered drone. And all registered drones require Remote ID, regardless of weight. The key word in the DJI add is "recreational".

Got it, thanks Vic. One other question here, even as a Part 107 pilot is there any reason you can't make a recreational flight? For instance I do a lot of Part 107 flying around stadiums with all the waivers approved, but for fun I'll take my mini out in class G airspace just to fly around recreationally.

 

[Vic Moss]

Got it, thanks Vic. One other question here, even as a Part 107 pilot is there any reason you can't make a recreational flight? For instance I do a lot of Part 107 flying around stadiums with all the waivers approved, but for fun I'll take my mini out in class G airspace just to fly around recreationally.

You can fly recreationally under 107, but you have to be following 107 rules. If your Mini isn't broadcasting RID (like with some of the standard batteries), and isn't registered, then you need to have your TRUST. Because any flight taken under 107 must use a registered drone, and that drone must broadcast RID.

 

[TheGroove]

You can fly recreationally under 107, but you have to be following 107 rules. If your Mini isn't broadcasting RID (like with some of the standard batteries), and isn't registered, then you need to have your TRUST. Because any flight taken under 107 must use a registered drone, and that drone must broadcast RID.

So in order to fly recreationally you cannot be Part 107 with fewer restrictions then? This doesn't make a lot of sense, it doesn't exactly incentivize people.

 

[Vic Moss]

So in order to fly recreationally you cannot be Part 107 with fewer restrictions then? This doesn't make a lot of sense, it doesn't exactly incentivize people.

No, if you're flying under 44809, then you need the TRUST. But you can fly recreationally under 107.

Some examples to hopefully clarify:

1) You're out flying with your buddies, and one of them has a drone that registered under 44809. In that case, you need your TRUST because under 107 rules, you have to fly a 107 registered drone.

2) You get a chance to fly an r/c aircraft that weighs over 55 pounds. You'd need your TRUST as well under those circumstances.

3) Like what you said before, if your Mini is not broadcasting Remote ID, then you need to use TRUST. Becuase any drone flown under 107, regardless of weight, must have active RID.

Best option is to just fly under 107 rules and have fun. Nothing says you can't fly recreationally under 107 rules. There really is no difference in 99% of all cases.

 

[Droning on and on...]

Not for recreational flyers. They have to fly using a CBO safety guidelines. None allow that.

Bummer.

 

[mavic3usa]

When I check with the AMA CBO, I don't see anything that prohibits the recreational flyer from flying over people and over traffic, did I miss something?

REGULATORY COMPLIANCE
Key elements of AMA’s Safety Code include the
requirement to see and avoid manned aircraft and
maintain model aircraft operations within visual line of
sight.
In addition to operating within our safety
programming, AMA members should comply with
any and all applicable federal, state, and local laws and
regulations.
On October 5, 2018, the U.S. President signed the FAA
Reauthorization Act of 2018 into law. The Exception
for Limited Recreational Operations of Unmanned
Aircraft established by section 349 contains eight
statutory requirements that recreational and educational
fliers must adhere to operate recreational UAS (model
aircraft).

1. The aircraft is flown strictly for recreational, or
educational purposes.
2. The aircraft is operated in accordance with or within
the programming of a community-based organization’s
set of safety guidelines that are developed in
coordination with the Federal Aviation Administration.
3. The aircraft is flown within the visual line of sight of
the person operating the aircraft or a visual observer colocated and in direct communication with the operator.
4. The aircraft is operated in a manner that does not
interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft.
5. In Class B, Class C, or Class D airspace or within
the lateral boundaries of the surface area of Class
E airspace designated for an airport, the operator
obtains prior authorization from the Administrator or
designee before operating and complies with all airspace
restrictions and prohibitions.
6. In Class G airspace, the aircraft is flown from
the surface to not more than 400 feet above ground
level and complies with all airspace restrictions and
prohibitions.
7. The operator has passed an aeronautical knowledge
and safety test described in subsection (g) and
maintains proof of test passage to be made available to
the Administrator or law enforcement upon request.
8. The aircraft is registered and marked in accordance
with chapter 441 of this title and proof of registration is
made available to the Administrator of designee or law
enforcement upon request.

 

[TheGroove]

No, if you're flying under 44809, then you need the TRUST. But you can fly recreationally under 107.

Some examples to hopefully clarify:

1) You're out flying with your buddies, and one of them has a drone that registered under 44809. In that case, you need your TRUST because under 107 rules, you have to fly a 107 registered drone.

2) You get a chance to fly an r/c aircraft that weighs over 55 pounds. You'd need your TRUST as well under those circumstances.

3) Like what you said before, if your Mini is not broadcasting Remote ID, then you need to use TRUST. Becuase any drone flown under 107, regardless of weight, must have active RID.

Best option is to just fly under 107 rules and have fun. Nothing says you can't fly recreationally under 107 rules. There really is no difference in 99% of all cases.

I would like to take the new DJI Neo and fly over moving traffic, even just traversing, but it will be the main subject of my shot. To me, this implies that if I have a Part 107 I must adhere to all the Part 107 rules and possibly even need a wiaver.

However, if I am just recreational (TRUST) I can do it without Remote ID or anything from the FAA as long as it falls under category 1. You see the confusion here.

 

[MS Coast]

When I check with the AMA CBO, I don't see anything that prohibits the recreational flyer from flying over people and over traffic, did I miss something?

REGULATORY COMPLIANCE
Key elements of AMA’s Safety Code include the
requirement to see and avoid manned aircraft and
maintain model aircraft operations within visual line of
sight.
In addition to operating within our safety
programming, AMA members should comply with
any and all applicable federal, state, and local laws and
regulations.
On October 5, 2018, the U.S. President signed the FAA
Reauthorization Act of 2018 into law. The Exception
for Limited Recreational Operations of Unmanned
Aircraft established by section 349 contains eight
statutory requirements that recreational and educational
fliers must adhere to operate recreational UAS (model
aircraft).

1. The aircraft is flown strictly for recreational, or
educational purposes.
2. The aircraft is operated in accordance with or within
the programming of a community-based organization’s
set of safety guidelines that are developed in
coordination with the Federal Aviation Administration.
3. The aircraft is flown within the visual line of sight of
the person operating the aircraft or a visual observer colocated and in direct communication with the operator.
4. The aircraft is operated in a manner that does not
interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft.
5. In Class B, Class C, or Class D airspace or within
the lateral boundaries of the surface area of Class
E airspace designated for an airport, the operator
obtains prior authorization from the Administrator or
designee before operating and complies with all airspace
restrictions and prohibitions.
6. In Class G airspace, the aircraft is flown from
the surface to not more than 400 feet above ground
level and complies with all airspace restrictions and
prohibitions.
7. The operator has passed an aeronautical knowledge
and safety test described in subsection (g) and
maintains proof of test passage to be made available to
the Administrator or law enforcement upon request.
8. The aircraft is registered and marked in accordance
with chapter 441 of this title and proof of registration is
made available to the Administrator of designee or law
enforcement upon request.

Page 3.

https://www.modelaircraft.org/sites/default/files/documents/100.pdf

 

[mavic3usa]

Page 3. View attachment 177106

https://www.modelaircraft.org/sites/default/files/documents/100.pdf

When it comes to the AMA, I think the drone pilots will be looking for the drone specific rules and not focus on the one's pertaining to model aircraft. Are there not a few drone-specific rules that don't pertain to model aircraft? Maybe they should add this in the regulatory compliance section if they want to be clear but the rule you posted is even more restrictive than the FAA. I dunno, maybe it's time to join a different CBO.

 

[MS Coast]

When it comes to the AMA, I think the drone pilots will be looking for the drone specific rules and not focus on the one's pertaining to model aircraft. Are there not a few drone-specific rules that don't pertain to model aircraft? Maybe they should add this in the regulatory compliance section if they want to be clear but the rule you posted is even more restrictive than the FAA. I dunno, maybe it's time to join a different CBO.

Flite Test Community Association is my pick of the litter.

Safety Guidelines - Flite Test Community Association

These guidelines provide FTCA members easy-to-follow rules ensuring safety is at the top priority while allowing individuals to enjoy the full recreational, educational, and scientific benefits of model aviation. SAFETY GUIDELINES All safety guidelines must be followed while participating or...

ftca.flitetest.com

 

[Droning on and on...]

Flite Test Community Association is my pick of the litter.

Safety Guidelines - Flite Test Community Association

These guidelines provide FTCA members easy-to-follow rules ensuring safety is at the top priority while allowing individuals to enjoy the full recreational, educational, and scientific benefits of model aviation. SAFETY GUIDELINES All safety guidelines must be followed while participating or...

ftca.flitetest.com

From the link: "All flying of members must be for recreational or educational purposes."

This would seem to imply pilots who fly commercial missions under p107 can not be members (and use these rules for recreational or educational missions). The problematic term is "all".

I'm pretty sure that's NOT what's intended, but rather the rules of the CBO only apply to recreational and educational missions. The wording is simply awkward and ambiguous. But hey, I joined

 

[MS Coast]

From the link: "All flying of members must be for recreational or educational purposes."

This would seem to imply pilots who fly commercial missions under p107 can not be members (and use these rules for recreational or educational missions). The problematic term is "all".

I'm pretty sure that's NOT what's intended, but rather the rules of the CBO only apply to recreational and educational missions. The wording is simply awkward and ambiguous. But hey, I joined

Well, there are a couple of other ways one might interpret that.

We aren't required to join a CBO, only to abide by the rules of one. So, non-members relying on the rules aren't obligated to abide by a rule that applies to members.

It could also be taken to say that if you're flying a member, rather than a drone, you must be flying him or her for recreational or educational purposes.