DJI RC External Antennas

[Starz]

I’d rather buy from another drone company that cares for his customers. We really need another competitor in the market to really challenge the price and practices of dji

That idea has been around for years and proclaimed by many before.
Their sales have not suffered by it yet.

 

[GadgetGuy]

I’d rather buy from another drone company that cares for his customers. We really need another competitor in the market to really challenge the price and practices of dji

When you find one, please let us know!

 

[pescobar61]

Trees with leaves.

Trees with leaves.

"No RC antenna or antenna mod can penetrate solid objects at any range."

Not really, it depends on frequency and received power. For example, you would likely be pretty unhappy if your cell phone stopped working because you walked behind a tree. The 2.4GHz channels (not far from cell bands 1, 10 and 23) will tend to pass through foliage better than the 5GHz but 5GHz has far less interference. Wet leaves are worse.

The power is not total power sent but power received, at both ends. Power received is dependent on the transmitted power; how well concentrated that transmitted power field is at the receiver; and how much of that power the receiver can gather. The FCC limits the transmitted power and is difficult to change anyway; a transmitter directional antenna will concentrate the power at the receiver; a bigger receiver antenna will gather more incoming power.

The one under discussion is the controller antenna. I have ordered a pair of Alfa APA-M25 dual band antennae, a well regarded directional antenna with a beam width of 60 degrees and beam height of 16 degrees; and a pair of 5" dual band omni antennae. Both (in theory) should perform better than the OEM antenna but might be somewhat more difficult to keep point correctly. Hard to know without a radiation plot for the OEM antenna. 3rd party dual band antennae also tend to be a mixed bag in terms of quality.

I expect the omni to gather more incoming signal and maybe improve the video range more; I expect the Alfa to do a better job at improving the signal the drone receives and maybe improve control range more. I also might experiment with mixing the antennae but I really don't know if there is some kind of MIMO or beaming forming in the receiver that would suffer from mis-matching the antennae.

Me too: for trying with my Mini 1 and my Mini 3 Pro too. At least you can uses these antennas with your WiFi router.

 

[EliteBleader]

When you find one, please let us know!

Hence why I said “we need”.

 

[tlyons]

@tlyons : It appears you are trying to blame DJI for your pilot errors of trying to maintain signal blocked by trees "with leaves." Also, if the signal is being blocked, you can't possibly maintain VLOS. Get a Mavic 3 and use the 7x telephoto to spy on your neighbor. It will do just fine from 150 feet.

"Literally yesterday, I wanted to take a picture of a neighbor's yard 0.25 miles away. I flew over at 200ft but could not drop below 150ft without losing connection. Kind of lame performance and only slightly better than my retired Parrot Anafi. This was FCC power levels by the way."

"Trees with leaves."

While the theoreticians are busy arguing why it can't be done, or why it is the equipment's fault, the rest of us so called DJI "fanboys" are out enjoying the DJI advertised signal range benefits by making sure we have clear LOS.

Yes, there are always be those who will be content with less; who will just to go along with limits arbitrarily placed on them; who will stifle their own curiosity.
But to be proud of that? Wow.

Edit: Good antenna design is not from "theoreticians" it's from engineers who know that at 2.4GHz the wavelength in air is about 12.5cm and the design has to match that.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Hence why I said “we need”.

Hence why I said, "when you find one, please let us all know."
It's an oxymoron!
A drone company caring about its customers...
Lots of pretenders out there, but all drone companies are all about their own bottom line, including DJI, just like every other for profit business. Fortunately, DJI continues to innovate. They can be copied by the likes of Autel Robotics after the fact, but the copy cats are unable to follow through. Try getting Autel Robotics to respond over their many failures, especially recently!

 

[tlyons]

A YouTube showed up recently showing the removal of the two internal antennas on the DJI RC and installing external antennas. The purpose was to help with the range issues being reported on the Mini 3 Pro. Aside from voiding any warranties I feel this will improve the range regardless of any firmware updates that will also improve range. I imagine the antennas on this controller were put inside for appearances sake but for those who prefer function over form it seems to be a no-brainer. I suppose it is possible that these internal antennas may be of a special design the does in fact provide the same or greater level of performance as any external antennas but I would need to see the technical report and data before I believe it.

I just did the described mod only with two pairs antennae:
1. Alfa APA-M25: APA-WiFi6E-M2
good price: DJI Mavic Mini kit RC Drone antenna upgrade RP-SMA kit by Alfa Network APA-M25 | eBay
These are fairly directional (66 degrees beam width, 16 degree beam height) with strong backside rejection. The backside rejection is helpful to damp any interferers behind you.
2. Generic 8dBi omnidirectional antennae: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R21LN5P

I am flying in an area with trees, houses, hills, etc. There are literally dozens of home wifi routers in all directions. Flying towards my parents house, the stock antenna went about 1/2 mile and dropped. I had to stand on a step stool to get a connection to perform a manual RTH. (I could have just waited.)

The Alfa went 3/4 mile (the full distance) with a strong signal until a sudden stop with a weak signal message. The controller stayed connected and I could perform a RTH manually. The Alfa is very directional and will instantly drop if pointed away from the drone. The video display seemed more solid until the sudden stop. 2.4GHz and 5GHz both went the same distance with no noticeable difference.

The generic omni dropped maybe 200-300ft short of the Alfa and also had a solid video. It was otherwise similar to the Alfa but much less sensitive to pointing.

Conclusion: improving the range and reliability of the signal by 25-50% in a tough urban environment is worth the $35 to me. The $9 omni antennae are a fun experiment and since it is trivial to return to stock (with a couple new holes) it is kind of a no brainer. I am not planning an open country, no interference range test; it's not legal although it is tempting to try the strap-the-drone-to-a-roof-rack experiment.

The mod is easy but does require a couple holes drilled in the controller. I highly recommend viewing this video before you start. It is critical to get the hole in that space between the two stiffeners so the cover snaps back on cleanly without further surgery.

The Alfa are a better design but somewhat annoying to fit in the standard fly-more case. Here's a photo showing how the Alfa's need to be arranged to work on the controller.

New item by Timothy Lyons

photos.app.goo.gl

Good luck!

 

[GadgetGuy]

Yes, there are always be those who will be content with less; who will just to go along with limits arbitrarily placed on them; who will stifle their own curiosity.
But to be proud of that? Wow.

Edit: Good antenna design is not from "theoreticians" it's from engineers who know that at 2.4GHz the wavelength in air is about 12.5cm and the design has to match that.

Quite the contrary! DJI delivers the best stock range of any drone, without any necessary mods. They don't place any arbitrary limits. The physics of your problems are uniquely yours! If you really think you can out-engineer DJI's 10,000 engineers, best of luck to you! DJI's designs work well for 99.99% of uses. Flying for miles from behind and below groves of tall trees “with leaves" is a problem of your own making, and not any defect in DJI's antenna design.

 

[tlyons]

Quite the contrary! DJI delivers the best stock range of any drone, without any necessary mods. They don't place any arbitrary limits. The physics of your problems are uniquely yours! If you really think you can out-engineer DJI's 10,000 engineers, best of luck to you! DJI's designs work well for 99.99% of uses. Flying for miles from behind and below groves of tall trees “with leaves" is a problem of your own making, and not any defect in DJI's antenna design.

And yet in spite of your confidence... it works better with the better antennae both for me and for several youtubers. For $8 and 15 minutes for the omni.

But hey, you be you. Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia

 

[GadgetGuy]

And yet in spite of your confidence... it works better with the better antennae both for me and for several youtubers. For $8 and 15 minutes for the omni.

But hey, you be you. Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia

Yes, for you and your .01% that insist upon flying from unfavorable locations without clear LOS, and also clearly in violation of FAA VLOS requirements, with DJI's cheapest RC's. For the other 99.99% of DJI owners, DJI's current stock equipment now delivers its advertised range while maintaining clear LOS. I have been flying DJI drones since 2016. During that time, I have accumulated over 850 hours and 2650 flights over 18,000 miles, as documented in Go 4 and DJI Fly, so I speak from experience with all DJI aircraft. How about you?

 

[BroomRider]

I just did the described mod only with two pairs antennae:
1. Alfa APA-M25: APA-WiFi6E-M2
good price: DJI Mavic Mini kit RC Drone antenna upgrade RP-SMA kit by Alfa Network APA-M25 | eBay
These are fairly directional (66 degrees beam width, 16 degree beam height) with strong backside rejection. The backside rejection is helpful to damp any interferers behind you.
2. Generic 8dBi omnidirectional antennae: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R21LN5P

I am flying in an area with trees, houses, hills, etc. There are literally dozens of home wifi routers in all directions. Flying towards my parents house, the stock antenna went about 1/2 mile and dropped. I had to stand on a step stool to get a connection to perform a manual RTH. (I could have just waited.)

The Alfa went 3/4 mile (the full distance) with a strong signal until a sudden stop with a weak signal message. The controller stayed connected and I could perform a RTH manually. The Alfa is very directional and will instantly drop if pointed away from the drone. The video display seemed more solid until the sudden stop. 2.4GHz and 5GHz both went the same distance with no noticeable difference.

The generic omni dropped maybe 200-300ft short of the Alfa and also had a solid video. It was otherwise similar to the Alfa but much less sensitive to pointing.

Conclusion: improving the range and reliability of the signal by 25-50% in a tough urban environment is worth the $35 to me. The $9 omni antennae are a fun experiment and since it is trivial to return to stock (with a couple new holes) it is kind of a no brainer. I am not planning an open country, no interference range test; it's not legal although it is tempting to try the strap-the-drone-to-a-roof-rack experiment.

The mod is easy but does require a couple holes drilled in the controller. I highly recommend viewing this video before you start. It is critical to get the hole in that space between the two stiffeners so the cover snaps back on cleanly without further surgery.

The Alfa are a better design but somewhat annoying to fit in the standard fly-more case. Here's a photo showing how the Alfa's need to be arranged to work on the controller.

New item by Timothy Lyons

photos.app.goo.gl

Good luck!

An informative video. I think I'll wait until my warranty is expired before I go making my mods like that, though. DJI will probably not look kindly to my making any changes & thus not honor any warranty claims.

I note that the RC Pro also has external antennae, & that it's an upgrade to the RC controller is likely due in part to having that type of antennae improvement.

Although all this is new to me being a newbie to the RC & drone world, any & all the info I've read pertaining to improving/maximizing radio performance always mentioned that the most cost-effective improvement started with optimizing the antennae. External has got to beat internal, not to mention, the size increase.

 

[BroomRider]

Sure, straight line at high altitude with no trees, no interference from homes with their wifi routers, no cell towers, no power lines, and carefully keeping both the drone and the controller aligned you can get great distance. Hence all the Youtube videos of DJI fanboys showing long distance that doesn't match what you get in real use of the drone as a flying camera.

Literally yesterday, I wanted to take a picture of a neighbor's yard 0.25 miles away. I flew over at 200ft but could not drop below 150ft without losing connection. Kind of lame performance and only slightly better than my retired Parrot Anafi. This was FCC power levels by the way.

Yes, there will be someone who says, "if DJI can't do it, you shouldn't want it."

I'll say, a few flights in with my M3P when I was down at my local beach, sitting on top of a high dune, I flew it down the beach, paralleling the lines between the water & the dunes, & I got to just >15K feet away & ~150 feet in altitude, all stock.

Although beachfront homes were back beyond the dunes, they weren't far away. No trees, ofc, & in a wide-open area, very rural except for the beachfront homes. I had a few signal strength drops, but nothing that incurred a RTH. I decided I ought to return it home due to battery strength, as I was flying it into the wind. I wasn't doing any picture or video recording.

I'll try it again in a relatively calm wind.

 

[pescobar61]

I just did the described mod only with two pairs antennae:
1. Alfa APA-M25: APA-WiFi6E-M2
good price: DJI Mavic Mini kit RC Drone antenna upgrade RP-SMA kit by Alfa Network APA-M25 | eBay
These are fairly directional (66 degrees beam width, 16 degree beam height) with strong backside rejection. The backside rejection is helpful to damp any interferers behind you.
2. Generic 8dBi omnidirectional antennae: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R21LN5P

I am flying in an area with trees, houses, hills, etc. There are literally dozens of home wifi routers in all directions. Flying towards my parents house, the stock antenna went about 1/2 mile and dropped. I had to stand on a step stool to get a connection to perform a manual RTH. (I could have just waited.)

The Alfa went 3/4 mile (the full distance) with a strong signal until a sudden stop with a weak signal message. The controller stayed connected and I could perform a RTH manually. The Alfa is very directional and will instantly drop if pointed away from the drone. The video display seemed more solid until the sudden stop. 2.4GHz and 5GHz both went the same distance with no noticeable difference.

The generic omni dropped maybe 200-300ft short of the Alfa and also had a solid video. It was otherwise similar to the Alfa but much less sensitive to pointing.

Conclusion: improving the range and reliability of the signal by 25-50% in a tough urban environment is worth the $35 to me. The $9 omni antennae are a fun experiment and since it is trivial to return to stock (with a couple new holes) it is kind of a no brainer. I am not planning an open country, no interference range test; it's not legal although it is tempting to try the strap-the-drone-to-a-roof-rack experiment.

The mod is easy but does require a couple holes drilled in the controller. I highly recommend viewing this video before you start. It is critical to get the hole in that space between the two stiffeners so the cover snaps back on cleanly without further surgery.

The Alfa are a better design but somewhat annoying to fit in the standard fly-more case. Here's a photo showing how the Alfa's need to be arranged to work on the controller.

New item by Timothy Lyons

photos.app.goo.gl

Good luck!

Today I made it. Tomorrow I can try the ARGtek 8dbi Dual (omnidirectional) and an Alfa APA-MA25 too. The process is easy and I hope a strong signal and better range. I had the ARGtek from my Mavic Mini and really did very well. Any experience with Alfa antenna. For my carrying 2 different antennas is not a problem because I take the Lowepro bag for my MA2. I flight the Mini 3 Pro before the MA2 (for obvious lights reasons) ...

 

[BroomRider]

Today I made it. Tomorrow I can try the ARGtek 8dbi Dual (omnidirectional) and an Alfa APA-MA25 too. The process is easy and I hope a strong signal and better range. I had the ARGtek from my Mavic Mini and really did very well. Any experience with Alfa antenna. For my carrying 2 different antennas is not a problem because I take the Lowepro bag for my MA2. I flight the Mini 3 Pro before the MA2 (for obvious lights reasons) ...

I'm interested in reading your results.

While down at my local beach, I did a couple of test flights with the stock setup & the Plus battery, & I made it to ~4 miles in 1 direction & ~5 miles in the other; both directions, I was flying along & above the beach at ~200', & found it necessary to increase that to the maximum of ~400' in an effort to increasing signal strength. Both times, signal loss was an issue & the time it took for me to struggle with regaining a connection increased the flying time to the point where RTH kicked in.

Yesterday, I revisited a site that I saw along the way during 1 of those tests, an archeological shipwreck (reportedly, very likely the Severn dating from the late-1700s) which is unreachable on foot due to the area being closed. I drove to a point ~1 mile away from it, launched & got some good photos & videos of it, but I could only descend to ~50' before I again had trouble with signal loss.

In all cases, altitude definitely seems to make a difference, both of my M3P & myself. Going from a sitting position to a standing position seemed to make an improvement. It may be a bit of a transportation issue & a PITA factor, but I thought that bringing a chair that sat higher or using some other way to increase my own height above the ground would improve the signal range.

As the M3P matures, I'm looking forward to more updates, improvements, & mods for the M3P.

 

[tlyons]

Today I made it. Tomorrow I can try the ARGtek 8dbi Dual (omnidirectional) and an Alfa APA-MA25 too. The process is easy and I hope a strong signal and better range. I had the ARGtek from my Mavic Mini and really did very well. Any experience with Alfa antenna. For my carrying 2 different antennas is not a problem because I take the Lowepro bag for my MA2. I flight the Mini 3 Pro before the MA2 (for obvious lights reasons) ...

Just be cautious; do *not* power on the controller without both antennae. The PA's (power amplifiers) very likely need a termination from the antenna to not be damaged.
Good Luck!

 

[Deleted member 165681]

I'll say, a few flights in with my M3P when I was down at my local beach, sitting on top of a high dune, I flew it down the beach, paralleling the lines between the water & the dunes, & I got to just >15K feet away & ~150 feet in altitude, all stock.

Although beachfront homes were back beyond the dunes, they weren't far away. No trees, ofc, & in a wide-open area, very rural except for the beachfront homes. I had a few signal strength drops, but nothing that incurred a RTH. I decided I ought to return it home due to battery strength, as I was flying it into the wind. I wasn't doing any picture or video recording.

I'll try it again in a relatively calm wind.

I just returned from a beach vacation and did the same casual test. After a few minutes the drone had flown over 17,000 ft (rather low altitude) still with strong signal. Having never been that far I got a little nervous and turned around. I guess those are ideal conditions.

Returning home, I was greeted with 1/2 mile flights because of the dense housing and tall trees all around me.

 

[Deleted member 165681]

And yet in spite of your confidence... it works better with the better antennae both for me and for several youtubers. For $8 and 15 minutes for the omni.

But hey, you be you. Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia

You’re probably on to something with that antenna mod. The FCC allows a max of 4 watts effective transmission power (if I understand the articles correctly)

That is with 1 watt transmitter power coupled with antenna design. Equivalent Isotropically Radiated Power (EIRP) is what some articles call it.

So to modify the RC for more power, a different transmitter or different antenna (or combination of both) can be used to increase the effective transmission power.

At WiFi frequencies it’s basically more power that takes the drone farther and or allows the signal to penetrate.

 

[GadgetGuy]

I'm interested in reading your results.

While down at my local beach, I did a couple of test flights with the stock setup & the Plus battery, & I made it to ~4 miles in 1 direction & ~5 miles in the other; both directions, I was flying along & above the beach at ~200', & found it necessary to increase that to the maximum of ~400' in an effort to increasing signal strength. Both times, signal loss was an issue & the time it took for me to struggle with regaining a connection increased the flying time to the point where RTH kicked in.

Yesterday, I revisited a site that I saw along the way during 1 of those tests, an archeological shipwreck (reportedly, very likely the Severn dating from the late-1700s) which is unreachable on foot due to the area being closed. View attachment 153246 I drove to a point ~1 mile away from it, launched & got some good photos & videos of it, but I could only descend to ~50' before I again had trouble with signal loss.

In all cases, altitude definitely seems to make a difference, both of my M3P & myself. Going from a sitting position to a standing position seemed to make an improvement. It may be a bit of a transportation issue & a PITA factor, but I thought that bringing a chair that sat higher or using some other way to increase my own height above the ground would improve the signal range.

As the M3P matures, I'm looking forward to more updates, improvements, & mods for the M3P.

Even standing on top of a collapsible Little Giant A frame ladder can make a huge difference!

 

[GadgetGuy]

Just be cautious; do *not* power on the controller without both antennae. The PA's (power amplifiers) very likely need a termination from the antenna to not be damaged.
Good Luck!

They sell antenna terminators that can be screwed on just for that purpose, while the antenna are removed for transport. Just in case you forget. Get a pair!

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[pescobar61]

You’re probably on to something with that antenna mod. The FCC allows a max of 4 watts effective transmission power (if I understand the articles correctly)

That is with 1 watt transmitter power coupled with antenna design. Equivalent Isotropically Radiated Power (EIRP) is what some articles call it.

So to modify the RC for more power, a different transmitter or different antenna (or combination of both) can be used to increase the effective transmission power.

At WiFi frequencies it’s basically more power that takes the drone farther and or allows the signal to penetrate.

Many thanks for your wise explanation. Something about this here.
Today I can't trying my new antennae because the bad weather (dry storms)...maybe tomorrow morning.