Do we have a problem with low flying airliners in the US?

[mavic3usa]

Be careful with those drones, you don't want to get anywhere near one of these:

Safety regulators are investigating another low flight by a Southwest jet, this time in Florida

Federal officials are investigating an incident in which a Southwest Airlines jet flew as low as 150 feet over water while it was still about 5 miles from its intended landing spot in Tampa, Florida.

apnews.com

 

[chadCO]

Living just outside the restricted area of a small but busy airport, I see planes flying under 500ft often. (In an area where they should be over 500). FlightAware is the goto for being safe. I never fly the drone without having the app open to first check the weather and for all flights around me including planned flights. Spend 40 dollars on a raspberry pi and run a PiAware and get pro access for free.

 

[AeroJ]

I have noticed a similar problem in the UK, but not so much with jets. At weekends particularly I regularly see single seater private aircraft flying lower than the 500 ft AGL minimum they are meant to abide by over parks and towns. Not usually MUCH lower, but well into what should be 'my airspace' when flying at a park.

What I am supposed to do about this is anyone's guess, but it happens so often that I am given the impression that simply nobody ever checks what heights they've been at during flights, which seems like an oversight from an agency that so rigorously tries to enforce what we are doing...

 

[GFields]

A couple of incidents would hardly say that "we" have a problem. The FAA is investigating and will address any issues. However, we do have the responsibility to stay alert and when a manned aircraft enters our flying area, yield to them by descending and/or landing.

 

[chadCO]

A couple of incidents would hardly say that "we" have a problem. The FAA is investigating and will address any issues. However, we do have the responsibility to stay alert and when a manned aircraft enters our flying area, yield to them by descending and/or landing.

I see 2 or more incidents per week, I fly the drone multiple times a day, this means if I don't have live feed on local air traffic I might have an issue if I don't pay attention. It isn't jets its light GA. I simply have the expectation when I fly that there could be the possiblity of someone flying into my space and I plan accordingly. IE: couple weeks ago a cessna was flying around at not more than 250 ft right over my property. I still flew the drone but made sure not to go above 50ft to maintain seperation. Since there are 40ft trees I was flying next to I figured I was safe to go to 50ft. (The multiple flights a day are for sunrise and sunset captures)

 

[GFields]

if I don't pay attention. It isn't jets its light GA. I simply have the expectation when I fly that there could be the possiblity of someone flying into my space and I plan accordingly

If you're not paying attention going down the interstate you may find yourself on the wrong side of the highway too.

a cessna was flying around at not more than 250 f

You can tell by looking up at the plane to know it's altitude. Come on, don't take my post out of context. It is YOUR responsibility to know what is going on around you. If you're correct about the 250' AGL altitude report it to the FAA to see if they have authorization to do so. Drone pilots MUST always yield to manned aircraft (even if they are not supposed to be there).

 

[Aerophile]

Very few people can accurately judge the altitude of aircraft flying by. Maybe you're that one-in-a-million who can. Or maybe you're just like almost everyone else and that plane was really at 500'.

As an airplane owner and lifelong pilot myself, I can tell you that other than operations approaching and departing airports, an aircraft flying as low as you seem to think you're seeing is exceedingly rare (IME, other than at an airport or an airshow, in over 60 years of looking up at every airplane that has ever flown past me, all over the country and beyond, I don't think I've ever seen one at the altitude you claim to see them at regularly - except for a couple of F-16s running down remote valleys in Idaho, and seaplanes scud-running over water in Alaska). Pilots of crewed aircraft just don't do that, because it's incredibly stupid and they don't want to die.

At just 250 feet, you should be able to see the expression on the pilot's face, see whether they're wearing sunglasses or not, see if they have facial hair, and other pretty small details. At 250', if the pilot flipped you the bird as he went by, you would be able to see his individual fingers (and see him smile at you).

My guess would be that the aircraft you are seeing are actually at or above 500' AGL. Even at 500', it's startling to see an airplane go by so "close up" and almost everyone has the same reaction: "Wow, THAT was LOW!"

BTW, the altitude data that's displayed on FlightAware and similar sites is not accurate - not at all. It can be and often is wildly misleading. The "150 foot" Southwest jet inbound to land in Tampa that inspired so much pearl-clutching online from people who don't know chit about airplanes is just one example. That plane was not anywhere near that low (if it was, impossible-too-ignore and very loud ground proximity warnings would be constantly blaring in the cockpit; no such alarms went off because the plane was not dangerously low).

 

[mavic3usa]

Very few people can accurately judge the altitude of aircraft flying by. Maybe you're that one-in-a-million who can. Or maybe you're just like almost everyone else and that plane was really at 500'.

As an airplane owner and lifelong pilot myself, I can tell you that other than operations approaching and departing airports, an aircraft flying as low as you seem to think you're seeing is exceedingly rare (IME, other than at an airport or an airshow, in over 60 years of looking up at every airplane that has ever flown past me, all over the country and beyond, I don't think I've ever seen one at the altitude you claim to see them at regularly - except for a couple of F-16s running down remote valleys in Idaho, and seaplanes scud-running over water in Alaska). Pilots of crewed aircraft just don't do that, because it's incredibly stupid and they don't want to die.

At just 250 feet, you should be able to see the expression on the pilot's face, see whether they're wearing sunglasses or not, see if they have facial hair, and other pretty small details. At 250', if the pilot flipped you the bird as he went by, you would be able to see his individual fingers (and see him smile at you).

My guess would be that the aircraft you are seeing are actually at or above 500' AGL. Even at 500', it's startling to see an airplane go by so "close up" and almost everyone has the same reaction: "Wow, THAT was LOW!"

BTW, the altitude data that's displayed on FlightAware and similar sites is not accurate - not at all. It can be and often is wildly misleading. The "150 foot" Southwest jet inbound to land in Tampa that inspired so much pearl-clutching online from people who don't know chit about airplanes is just one example. That plane was not anywhere near that low (if it was, impossible-too-ignore and very loud ground proximity warnings would be constantly blaring in the cockpit; no such alarms went off because the plane was not dangerously low).

Oh good, so you agree that if the FAA finds this Southwest plane to be actually flying at 150ft AGL with a plane full of passenger then that pilot should be arrested, right?

 

[Aerophile]

 

[mavic3usa]

Ok but they would/could arrest you if you unintentionally fly in a TFR with a tiny drone and hurt no one or put anyone in any imminent danger?

If you fly your Mini drone on 5th street at 25 feet AGL while there is an NFL game in progress on 7th street, they will literally approach you and put you in handcuffs and if you don't have a TRUST certificate, they will likely take you to jail.

Are local police and law enforcement prohibited from arresting pilots for FAA violations where there is probable cause for also breaking other state/local laws?

 

[rjwmorrell]

I have noticed a similar problem in the UK, but not so much with jets. At weekends particularly I regularly see single seater private aircraft flying lower than the 500 ft AGL minimum they are meant to abide by over parks and towns. Not usually MUCH lower, but well into what should be 'my airspace' when flying at a park.

What I am supposed to do about this is anyone's guess, but it happens so often that I am given the impression that simply nobody ever checks what heights they've been at during flights, which seems like an oversight from an agency that so rigorously tries to enforce what we are doing...

I started looking at Transport Canada's listing of aviation enforcement actions (someone had posted the link somewhere as evidence they go after errant drone pilots). There are occasions where manned aircraft pilots have been fines for flying below minimum altitudes. I'm sure CAA and FAA have similar rules in those countries, and one could always report low flying aircraft to authorities.

 

[anotherlab]

Ok but they would/could arrest you if you unintentionally fly in a TFR with a tiny drone and hurt no one or put anyone in any imminent danger?

If you fly your Mini drone on 5th street at 25 feet AGL while there is an NFL game in progress on 7th street, they will literally approach you and put you in handcuffs and if you don't have a TRUST certificate, they will likely take you to jail.

Are local police and law enforcement prohibited from arresting pilots for FAA violations where there is probable cause for also breaking other state/local laws?

The police are going to enforce state and local laws. The FAA can step in to address violations of FAA regulations.

For example, a man was recently arrested for operating an unauthorized drone flying over the SpaceX launch pad near Boca Chica Beach, Texas. SpaceX detected the drone and called the authorities.

...was arrested and charged with “operation of an unmanned aircraft over a critical infrastructure facility.” This charge stems from Texas Government Code, which designates the SpaceX facility as critical infrastructure...

Source: Man Arrested For Flying Drone Over SpaceX Facility In Texas

 

[mavic3usa]

The police are going to enforce state and local laws. The FAA can step in to address violations of FAA regulations.

For example, a man was recently arrested for operating an unauthorized drone flying over the SpaceX launch pad near Boca Chica Beach, Texas. SpaceX detected the drone and called the authorities.


Source: Man Arrested For Flying Drone Over SpaceX Facility In Texas

Look, we know the police can you arrest you for pretty much anything. The charges may stem directly from the law but if you violate a TFR over a football game, who's going to arrest you, local police or federal LE? Is there a state law that says a drone can't violate an NFL TFR? Seems to me pretty much every state has some state statute that says "You must follow FAA law" and if you break an FAA law, it's a state statute violation for which they can seize you at a minimum. Someone can always find a state law that you violated. When a plane lands and the police come on board and haul you off in handcuffs.....why isn't it sometimes the pilot for his actions with the airplane? Do you have to be a drunk pilot for that to happen?

But that's not my real point. How do all these airline violations and/or crimes that often rise to a criminal level and put thousands at high risk go legally unpunished yet simple minor drone infractions that basically put no one at risk have such disparities? Don't answer that, I already know why.

 

[anotherlab]

....But that's not my real point. How do all these airline violations and/or crimes that often rise to a criminal level and put thousands at high risk go legally unpunished yet simple minor drone infractions that basically put no one at risk have such disparities?....

What "airline violations and/or crimes that often rise to a criminal level" are not being punished?

 

[mavic3usa]

What "airline violations and/or crimes that often rise to a criminal level" are not being punished?

Just do a search on "Boeing" or "United."

 

[MS Coast]

When a plane lands and the police come on board and haul you off in handcuffs.....why isn't it sometimes the pilot for his actions with the airplane?

Have there been many situations where a pilot was not arrested after assaulting a flight attendant, trying to open an emergency door in flight, or beating up a passenger?

But that's not my real point. How do all these airline violations and/or crimes that often rise to a criminal level and put thousands at high risk go legally unpunished yet simple minor drone infractions that basically put no one at risk have such disparities? Don't answer that, I already know why.

Which of the recent incidents involving commercial flights were criminal acts?

What minor drone infractions that put no one at risk were inappropriately punished?

Do you really feel persecuted as a drone pilot and feel that commercial airline pilots are not held accountable for breaking regulations or flying dangerously?

 

[anotherlab]

Just do a search on "Boeing" or "United."

Do you mean like "Boeing to plead guilty to fraud in US probe of fatal 737 MAX crashes"?

 

[mavic3usa]

Do you mean like "Boeing to plead guilty to fraud in US probe of fatal 737 MAX crashes"?

Just looking for people to get arrested (meaning handcuff, mugshot, bond, arraignment, etc) and have potential to serve jail time for crimes.

 

[Ms Ivy]

Hmmm if airplanes are going to flying below the 400 foot range, maybe we should fly above the 1000 foot range. to avoid them. You know for safety reasons. HaHaha I'm just kidding