Drones and Military Jets

[gnirtS]

I can tell you as a Part 61 pilot, the FAA takes a very dim view of private planes below 500' as you are supposed to be 500' above any object, except in an emergency or landing/take off.

We're talking drones not manned VFR aircraft. And yes, even manned private aircraft can be below 500ft quite legitimately depending on their exact clearance and purpose.

Given the OPs description of a river valley and trees that isnt a built up area (which is why low flying is permitted as well).

Quite legal to have a drone at 300ft and a military aircraft at 300ft (or lower) in most of the country.

 

[gnirtS]

yes but even the concords usd to fly close to 300 hundred ft alot so you have to be careful these days

By that measure even the Space Shuttle and current Space X flies at 300ft a lot too - once per flight to be exact.

Sadly you wont see a concorde flying at any altitude these days though.

 

[Viciam]

By that measure even the Space Shuttle and current Space X flies at 300ft a lot too - once per flight to be exact.

Sadly you wont see a concorde flying at any altitude these days though.

yes the space shuttle regularly fly at 300ft its just a shame nascar decide to stop the flights

 

[JDubya]

The one thing you can do is check the sectional charts. You will see lines marked VR with a number after them. These are approved low level navigation routes where military aircraft operate for low level training. When I was flying them, most had a floor of 200', though there were areas in the desert where there were no floors. We were cleared to the deck. Also check NOTAMS to see if there is a military operation in effect in your intended area of flight. Obviously, except for air shows, most of these ops take place "in the middle of nowhere". Just where most drone operators feel the safest. They are few and far between. Just be smart and check the charts.
And the "drone police" whining is a bit overused here, don't you think?

This exactly. They’re referred to as a “MTR” (military training route). VR are visual routes, IR are instrument routes. If the route # has 4 digits, the aircraft using it are below 1500’ AGL. A 3 digit route # refers to route altitudes above 1500’ AGL. All drone pilots should keep a current sectional for the area you fly, learn to read and understand all the nomenclature and check current notams before flying.

 

[Classic flyer]

You seriously doubt your drone could hurt him??!?! Are you being serious, or just being silly? Tell this F-16 pilot your drone couldn't hurt him. He lost his jet, nearly his life and all he hit was some bird skin, bird muscle, bird feathers and little bitty bird bones:

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Any idea how many pilots are killed, maimed, or injured by birds coming through cockpit windshields? Would you be willing to slam into a Mavic at 400 MPH in a single engine fighter??

Here we go again

 

[Sprocket]

Here we go again

Hate to say it, but it just drones on and on. eh?

 

[Bigbird48]

To be onest it seem like its ur fault because planes always fly around 300ft. u shouldn,t be flying that high it gives rest of us a bad name

Most manned aircraft are required to stay above 500 AGL drones are allowed to 400ft

 

[Marko9219]

Here we go again

Yup, I agree. It seems about weekly someone says (In effect) "My little drone just couldn't harm a modern jet or jet engine."

 

[MydKnight]

I dunno man. It doesn't take much to destroy an engine if something gets sucked in to the intake.

Or even just hitting it. How much damage could a 1kg object do to a wingtip or one of the other aero surfaces at 1000kmph? Sure your drone would be smashed to smithereens. But I doubt the F-35 would come out unscathed.

I wouldn't worry about them replacing your drone so much. I'd be more worried about the Air Force sending you a damage bill.

 

[theDRONEranger]

skylane you haven't made a relevant point yet. you post a map of an area that I was nowhere near. you post a link to NFS that says its perfectly fine to fly there, you say I'm below AGL of 2000 ' yes I'm not allowed above 400 feet from ground.You say I'm in a clearly marked bald eagle breeding area which I'n not and even if I was its only during breeding season which its not. You say drones have to yield to manned aircraft which may be true but the link you posted doesn't say that anywhere, so again what was the point.??Seems like your just spouting off about something you know nothing about,. posting maps and links that that you think confirm your post but in reality don't.
Oh and for the record I checked with the Sheriff's office in person and The Tonto National Forest Service Rangers office at Bartlett lake to make sure I was fine to fly there, and there were no objections.

Your absolute best move was to contact the Forest Ranger office to determine whether or not droning was permitted. Kudos on that move. A follow up Q could have been referencing other possible restrictions. i.e., since AZ is a heavily populated state for pilot training, perhaps something about AC training in the area and how frequent. Rest assured, any damage to the aircraft, the govt would hunt you down and take the first born male child in your family for at least 3 generations. Why? Cause that’s what they do. If you fight, be prepared for a longgggggg legal battle. Always check airspace maps, NOTAMS, and property owner (in this case you did for permission (but ask other questions as well)). The 107 test will ask Qs referencing yielding to manned AC. I would have to brush up on recreational droning. Not everything on Part 107 applies to recreational, i.e., night droning.
Again, kudos for checking National Forest office first

Jeffrey

 

[HoozierDroneDaddy]

That would have been so freakin cool to see a jet zip right on past. I doubt a little plastic mavic could do much damage to it unless it got sucked into the engine and the lipo battery exploded. In saying that though, I've heard and seen the F35 and they are LOUD. You'd hear them coming from miles away, plenty of time to bring your drone down to a safe height or land it entirely. I highly doubt the pilot could see your drone, nor would he/she have time to react.

If there coming at you at speed, you will not hear them until they are on top of you, then it will be too late.

 

[Marko9219]

I dunno man. It doesn't take much to destroy an engine if something gets sucked in to the intake.

Or even just hitting it. How much damage could a 1kg object do to a wingtip or one of the other aero surfaces at 1000kmph? Sure your drone would be smashed to smithereens. But I doubt the F-35 would come out unscathed.

I wouldn't worry about them replacing your drone so much. I'd be more worried about the Air Force sending you a damage bill.

Even after showing them a video (or videos) of jets being taken out of the air by a small little, lightweight hollow-boned bird, they still like to argue that their drones aren't a threat to modern jets. They poo-poo the whole discussion. As I type this, there is the sound of jets outside my window. I live a few miles from Hill AFB, UT and we have a 2 day airshow happening this weekend with the USAF Thunderbirds both days. One thing the PR leading up to this weekend stressed was "No drones allowed." They know full well some idiot with his Mavic will try to get his 60 seconds of air show crowd from 400 ft up while F-35s or F-16s or whatever are flying around the airfield with 100,000 people standing below. The experts are obviously concerned.

I dunno man. It doesn't take much to destroy an engine if something gets sucked in to the intake.

Or even just hitting it. How much damage could a 1kg object do to a wingtip or one of the other aero surfaces at 1000kmph? Sure your drone would be smashed to smithereens. But I doubt the F-35 would come out unscathed.

I wouldn't worry about them replacing your drone so much. I'd be more worried about the Air Force sending you a damage bill.

 

[raymo]

If all of that is true... The better question would be, why was a jet flying there?

Just because it's there!

 

[Aerial West]

The true fact about all of it is that the airspaces are still mixed, pilots fly low (im at the beach where helo's fly at 150-250 feet sometimes) and it's all still being worked out.

 

[Air Or]

I'm about halfway through remote pilot test prep for 107 certification, and the more I read threads like this one, the more I become convinced that anybody that's taking a sUAS aircraft further away than their own back yards should get the rating.

At minimum they should be able to pass the sample exams if not wanting to pay the money and obtain the certificate.

 

[Classic flyer]

I'm about halfway through remote pilot test prep for 107 certification, and the more I read threads like this one, the more I become convinced that anybody that's taking a sUAS aircraft further away than their own back yards should get the rating.

At minimum they should be able to pass the sample exams if not wanting to pay the money and obtain the certificate.

I believe that day is forth coming

 

[jwblair]

I can tell you as a Part 61 pilot, the FAA takes a very dim view of private planes below 500' as you are supposed to be 500' above any object, except in an emergency or landing/take off.

If you look at a sectional and see areas in yellow, those areas are heavily populated areas where you have to be at least 1000' above any object , so you are 1000'+ to be above buildings, trees, structures, etc

The exception is VR routes

As others have mentioned, the F-35 was probably in a Military Training Route which allows low-level, high-speed operations. Also, as has been mentioned in many forum posts, helicopters are explicitly exempted from the 500' minimum safe altitude as are all aircraft over water and in "sparsely populated areas" where the restriction becomes 500' from people or structures (not the ground). See (c) and (d) below.

Many times I have taken off from Furnace Creek airport (elevation -210' MSL) and cruised 50 miles down Death Valley with my altimeter displaying below zero, just because this is about the only place in the world where you can do that. This was before drones. If I were still flying today I would be scared to be flying anywhere below 1000' above ground level because of the threat of a drone strike.

As a drone pilot, I admit that there can be situations where, with the best of intentions and attempting to follow all of the rules, you can be surprised to find your drone in the same airspace as legally-flying manned aircraft. In our modern world accidents happen where everyone was following the law and no one was at fault. That doesn't make the consequences any less tragic. Everyone (manned and unmanned) needs to be extra-careful out there.


The regulation:
91.119 Minimum safe altitudes; general
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a)
Anywhere
– An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b)
Over congested areas –
Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over
any open-air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle
within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.
(c)
Over other than congested areas
– An altitude of 500 feet above the surface except over open water or sparsely populated areas.
In that case, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
(d)
Helicopters
– Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed In paragraph (b) or (c) of this section if the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface.
In addition, each person operating a helicopter shall comply with routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the Administrator.

 

[Cheech Wizard]

Pretty lame. Who’s yelling at him?

If you don't agree with them you become the "Drone Police", and are a mean person...

 

[Classic flyer]

If you don't agree with them you become the "Drone Police", and are a mean person...

Let's just grow up and act like adults ...geez

 

[Cheech Wizard]

I dunno man. It doesn't take much to destroy an engine if something gets sucked in to the intake.

Or even just hitting it. How much damage could a 1kg object do to a wingtip or one of the other aero surfaces at 1000kmph? Sure your drone would be smashed to smithereens. But I doubt the F-35 would come out unscathed.

I wouldn't worry about them replacing your drone so much. I'd be more worried about the Air Force sending you a damage bill.

Or maybe Prison... anyone ever heard of "Involuntary Manslaughter?