Flying above clouds

[sporte77]

So, we know that the rule interpretations on this forum are heavily debated. I know I'm probably going to get flamed for writing this... What I'm not saying below is that every time you "push" the rules something could happen. I'm talking about imagining the outcome before you fly. Thinking about all the possibilities before you take off (worst case scenarios). If one doesn't want to follow a rule & is bent on just doing whatever he wants - think about it this way:

You're flying your drone in the cloud, or above the cloud - whatever. Even a small airplane is possibly flying IFR in or around the clouds at 1,000' (even less if on an instrument approach). Think about the possibilities beyond making the FAA mad. As a drone pilot, I'm thinking about how my flight could go wrong - both for the drone (trees, wind, rain, wires, over water) AND for others (people on ground, airplanes in air). I fly manned aircraft as well & think about worst case scenario every time I take off - so I play through in my mind how I'll react procedurally.

I know the odds are in your favor when you aren't near any airports - but what if you weren't LOS & an airplane hit your drone & everyone died? Aside from loss of life, there's the legal & jail time, loss of life as you know it. Drone croaks due to condensation in clouds? $1000 gone. Ouch. That's enough to make me not take off. Anyway, we all know the rules are in their infancy and overburdened. However, we have to live with them until they evolve into more sensible and reasonable rules without giving the public & feds a reason to clamp down. So, if you are going to do what you want (regardless of the rule interpretation) at least let the little voice in your head help you avoid problems in the future.

 

[Five-O]

So, we know that the rule interpretations on this forum are heavily debated. I know I'm probably going to get flamed for writing this...

No flame here, well said.

 

[jcross]

I didn't know a 300 to 400 foot ceiling included the countryside where there may not be so much as a farmyard for miles and any planes are up at 33,00 feet

We don't make the rules but breaking them hurts the whole of aviation and droning. I do fixed wing and aerial photography below 5000. In touch w/atc. If you were "in" your craft you won't do it without com. Only a couple $ grand to you by lives of others.

 

[Joe Ernster]

I am no aviation attorney, but below is the link to the FAA website reharding flying a sUAS for fune. They have flying under 400' listed as a "guideline." I am not sure if that is an actual "law" but I follow the "guideline" 100% of the time.

Fly for Fun

 

[Jammcg]

I'll check out the Canadian laws to make sure

In Canada it is now pretty much ILLEGAL to fly anywhere short of the NWT unless you have a SFOC which are very difficult to get. That being said many people are still flying anywhere they want but if you get caught the penalties are stiff now. .

 

[tangoseal]

I live out in the country in North GA far away from Atlanta. I have several acres of property.

I also fly my Autel Xstar Premium and Mavic above my property. I fly no more than 400 foot with no intention of going higher. One day a few weeks ago I said, hrmm 400 foot is so low, but its the rules. There are NEVER any planes that fly that low. THen today as a matter of fact a small single prop personal air craft flew literally 350-500 foot literally right above my house.

Now as you state you want to fly above the clouds. That is great but you neverr know when you are going to kill a plane with a father and his daughter or a plane with passengers trying to get somewhere because your little cutesy Mavic was 1500 AGL scooting around above or within a cloud and a plane didn't see you and you took out the only propeller they have and you are now going to federal prison for at least 20 years for multiple counts of involuntary, or depending on jurisdiction, voluntary manslaughter with many more years because they charge you for each passenger that died.

Don't be a idiot. Just because it can doesn't mean you should.

 

[Oingo Boingo]

I didn't know a 300 to 400 foot ceiling included the countryside where there may not be so much as a farmyard for miles and any planes are up at 33,00 feet

Sadly rules are rules. Its like approaching a STOP sign at 42am in the morning. Do u stop only when there are other vehicles on the road.... ? Or do u stop because its the law.... ?

 

[Oingo Boingo]

You sound like a ton of fun...

Indeed he is. Its called the law. Your statement shows why will never be a pilot in real life

 

[DodgeP]

There are tons of folks who have never cracked the book(s) to even try to study or become familiar with the rules or to become 107 certified and that's understandable, you're a hobbyist! What's not acceptable is those who either know the rules/guidelines and don't care about them AND encourage others to bypass the rules through supportive statements. The rules apply to both hobbyist's and licensed sUAV pilots and ignorance of the rules is never a defense.

Even if there is no cloud cover, there is a ceiling at 400'. If I recall correctly every piece of pilot software warns you about the ceiling the first time you launch it. To fly above that ceiling you actually have to tell the software that you don't care about the rules. Anyone ever wonder why that is? It's the software covering it's own a-- ! It's the company saying, "listen the operator knew the rules and they agreed they knew the rules by tapping okay/continue."

I don't care, do what you want. What I do care about is the blatant support and misinformation for continued activity that threatens the hobby/business but I can only assume that those who haven't been licensed or who don't care to be licensed don't care anyway.

 

[Logger]

...Even if there is no cloud cover, there is a ceiling at 400'.

A little bit of misinformation there.
I gather that rule applies in the USA and elsewhere, but not everywhere. In Australia I can legally fly at the Mavics 1640' firmware ceiling or even higher if I could get it to, so long as I can see it and remain clear of controlled airspace.
Don't assume everybody flying above 400' is breaking the law.

 

[HoozierDroneDaddy]

In the US, are all hobbyist flyers suppose to follow the AMA guidelines? If so then their guidelines state not higher than 400' AGL and VLOS, so he would be violating the hobbyist guidelines.

My question is where is the original poster flying. US, Europe, Etc.?
If he is not in a country that limits his height, then the remaining question is he flying safe? If he is launching from above the clouds and has VLOS, then he should not have a problem as any aircraft (minus Helicopters, EM aircraft, etc) should be flying above his drone not near the ground where he is flying. As far as flying through the clouds, then he should be questioning the safety of his flight and his equipment. Not knowing where he is or what type of pilot he is, we can only provide him with our recommendations and ask him to fly with common sense and safety to protect other lives, aircraft, his aircraft, and the future of our industry. He will have to weigh the facts and make the appropriate decision. Hopefully the right one.

 

[Strafe1]

The rules apply to both hobbyist's and licensed sUAV pilots and ignorance of the rules is never a defense.

This is beyond wrong. Having your Part 107 should have helped you understand the difference between the two classifications. Some rules are similar, the 400' is NOT, among many others.

What I do care about is the blatant support and misinformation for continued activity that threatens the hobby/business but I can only assume that those who haven't been licensed or who don't care to be licensed don't care anyway.

You are contributing to the misinformation. And by the way, licensed 107 pilots are in no way superior or more "caring" than those who don't fly commercially.

 

[Strafe1]

In the US, are all hobbyist flyers suppose to follow the AMA guidelines? If so then their guidelines state not higher than 400' AGL

This is only partly correct. It is probable that Congress inferred that the AMA is/was the current community based organization. If this is assumed, then the AMA has this rule ONLY if you are within 3 miles of an airport. Otherwise, the 400' safety rule is not part of their code. It's a general guideline to follow as it encompasses practically every flying situation (e.g. flying near airports), but it is not part of their safety rules nor is it for the FAA. Recreationally of course.

 

[Strafe1]

Indeed he is. Its called the law. Your statement shows why will never be a pilot in real life

False statement. Not the law. Also, his comment to the rather abrupt, harsh post he was referring to, has NOTHING to do with anything he wants to do with his life. It doesn't even show what position he has at all. This is a personal character attack, and a trolling response.

 

[Tank62]

I don't want to be the stuck up in the forum, but are hobby and some Professional Pilots, is cathing a lot of HEAT from the FAA and the general public. So please be careful where you say this.

 

[Strafe1]

What's not acceptable is those who either know the rules/guidelines and don't care about them AND encourage others to bypass the rules through supportive statements.

I read the forums almost daily and don't really see anyone who knows the rules encouraging others to bypass them. Safe flying is most important. Encouraging illegal and dangerous activity should be called out for sure. I don't feel compelled to call out someone for flying out of VLOS if they are out in the countryside at a safe altitude and safe from harming anyone. Flying a long way away from an airport at over 400' isn't going to hurt anyone in that same situation. IMO, there are flights and conditions that are dangerous enough to warrant verbal cautioning to the poster. But scolding and holding oneself holier than thou is not the way.

 

[Strafe1]

@DodgeP
I'm hoping that you actually do know the difference in the laws and regulations for rec fliers and commercial fliers. You're stating various recommendations as actual law, perhaps because you believe so strongly in it and that the it carries added weight to your statements?
Regardless, generally speaking, ours is a country of laws which makes us great! We are also a country of freedoms. Which Congress personally addressed and enacted with regards to our "hobby" in 2012.
I personally fly under the law AND the other recommendations, because it is where my comfort level lies. I may occasionally lose VLOS over a desert valley, but not without proper assessment and personal responsibility. I just feel that misrepresenting the legalities and then criticizing others is the wrong approach. I appreciate your concern for our hobby, I really do. I just think we should represent it with facts, as well as support. Not with scolding or finger pointing. It probably won't be long before we are further regulated and these issues will be moot.

 

[Mavic of the North]

Has anyone flown through and above overcast clouds. I was just concerned about more moisture in there damaging the Mavic. This would be well out of the vicinity of major centres

Works fine if you ask me...

 

[Tomcat]

In the US, are all hobbyist flyers suppose to follow the AMA guidelines? If so then their guidelines state not higher than 400' AGL and VLOS, so he would be violating the hobbyist guidelines.

My question is where is the original poster flying. US, Europe, Etc.?
If he is not in a country that limits his height, then the remaining question is he flying safe? If he is launching from above the clouds and has VLOS, then he should not have a problem as any aircraft (minus Helicopters, EM aircraft, etc) should be flying above his drone not near the ground where he is flying. As far as flying through the clouds, then he should be questioning the safety of his flight and his equipment. Not knowing where he is or what type of pilot he is, we can only provide him with our recommendations and ask him to fly with common sense and safety to protect other lives, aircraft, his aircraft, and the future of our industry. He will have to weigh the facts and make the appropriate decision. Hopefully the right one.

Canada
Don't worry, with all the scolding I've gotten with this question, I be been reformed!! Lol

 

[HoozierDroneDaddy]

Canada
Don't worry, with all the scolding I've gotten with this question, I be been reformed!! Lol

No problem, learning and sharing is the goal here. Sometimes there will be those that become more aggressive, because of their strong beliefs in safety, etc. You have stated you are reformed. That in itself is a positive step and should suffice any of those above needing same.

However, apart from what you have heard here. Please check the newly passed Canadian drone laws. These are what you need to be aware of so that you do not have future legal problems. Fly Well and Fly Safe!