Flying my Air 2S ... and another pilot launching his Mavic 3 at the same time! A discussion on deconfliction

[RobW01]

I don’t see the presence of another drone as a problem. You are responsible only for the drone you are flying, and situational awareness is what VLOS is all about. In the area that I live—a picturesque part of northern New South Wales (Australia)—it’s not uncommon to see several drones in the air at the same time, particularly during whale watching season. I have an Australian licence (RePL) and you cannot get one without passing a demanding CASA flight test as well as theory. Part of the flight training involved flying circuits with five other pilots around a regulation-size football field—a very good test of situational awareness!

 

[rjwmorrell]

Is it that strict, really?

In the US operations over people is prohibited without following special rules, equipment, and obtaining a waiver, but transitioning over people briefly on the way to a mission site is allowed.

Is that not the case in Canada?

I have not seen any exemption. Basic operations must be more than 30m horizontal distance from uninvolved persons, full stop. Advanced operations can be over (within 5m) but only if the drone is compliant. The only ones that are compliant that's I've seen on the Transport Canada list have parachutes.

 

[rjwmorrell]

I take issue with the negative comments and name calling here. Good on you for noticing the other fellow with the drone and good on you for recognizing the potential for problems. Situational awareness is always a good thing. I think you were justified in being wary of the other guy.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people flying very expensive drones who have little to no understanding of the regulations or simple common sense good practice. Some are like the "credit card captains" we see running brand new $100,000, 500+ hp boats on the weekend here who think the red and green markers are just decorations and right of way is a land access issue. I don't want to be on the water or in the air near folks with more credit or cash than capability.

As a licensed drone pilot, you're more knowledgeable and capable than most, if not almost all, the drone operators you encounter. Until you establish otherwise, it's not wise to trust that the other person will know what they're doing or will fly safely.

If you'll flying near someone, I do think it's a good idea to coordinate with them about what you're both planning to do. It's sensible and courteous. If they seem potentially irresponsible, don't try to play drone cop. Just put the drone in the car and leave.

Post a photo of Peggy's Cove?

I'll post some photos for sure.

 

[rjwmorrell]

All you had to do was walk over say “hey I’m flying (or want to fly) around X Spot at around this altitude just to give you the heads up”.

Yeah I'm probably overthinking it, I could have just said hey, I'll be doing an orbit of the lighthouse, want me to wait till your out of the way or want to just let me know ow what you're planning so I can work around you?

 

[Geobeck7]

I occasionally fly with 2 or 3 UAS pilots over the waterfront in both Tacoma and Seattle. We are constantly alerting the other(s) of each move we make. If we are flying in the same direction, we each pick an altitude and stick to it, only changing heights after coordinating with the other pilots. We also use lights to help easily spot each other in flight.

A few weeks ago I ran into this same situation with a fellow drone pilot. I was sitting up and waiting for satellites when I noticed a young guy walking with a drone towards the end of the parking lot. He was 50 ft or so away, and hadn't noticed me as I was partly hidden by my car from his perspective. I shouted "Hey buddy, what you flying? I'm about to launch my Mavic 3." He was happy to see another pilot. He was flying a Mini 3 Pro and was studying for his 107.
We flew a couple of batteries together, he said he'd never flown with another pilot and was happy for the experience. He was here visiting family and wanted to get as much footage of the Puget Sound as he could. I gave him a couple of sweet spots to fly from where LAANC approval either wasn't needed or was quickly granted.
So my advice would be simply approach the other pilot, make conversation and see if you both can safely coordinate your flights.

I shouted "Hey buddy, what you flying? I'm about to launch my Mavic 3." He was happy to see another pilot.
It’s called communication with thy neighbor. Simple

 

[Droning on and on...]

I have not seen any exemption. Basic operations must be more than 30m horizontal distance from uninvolved persons, full stop. Advanced operations can be over (within 5m) but only if the drone is compliant. The only ones that are compliant that's I've seen on the Transport Canada list have parachutes.

I don't dispute this, and being in the US I apologize for lacking the interest to research it and (hopefully) prove you wrong for your own benefit

I find this a bit shocking. The FAA allows me to launch off my back deck in an urban residential neighborhood, ascend to 200ft, then fly over houses, roads, cars parks, schools, shopping centers, etc. so long as I'm moving along going somewhere.

There is, of course, VLOS requirements, but as long I'm complying with all the rules, I'm allowed to be momentarily over people while "transitioning".

To not be able to do this would seem to prohibit flight over any urban area at all, because you can't see when someone might be in their yard until you're breaking the rules flying over then.

Do Canuck pilots stick to flying in the boonies, off shore, or open spaces like parks in urban environments?

 

[MS Coast]

I don't dispute this, and being in the US I apologize for lacking the interest to research it and (hopefully) prove you wrong for your own benefit

I find this a bit shocking.

Our Canadian neighbor is correct about the Canadian rules. No shock.

Find your category of drone operation

Categories of operations for drones

tc.canada.ca

 

[Droning on and on...]

Our Canadian neighbor is correct about the Canadian rules. No shock.

Surprised probably a better description.

 

[mavic3usa]

Surprised probably a better description.

Neither shocked nor surprise. Canada is not a free country and they are rife with rules and regulations....that pretty much nobody follows (as pointed out by the OP).

 

[Chrislaf]

Neither shocked nor surprise. Canada is not a free country and they are rife with rules and regulations....that pretty much nobody follows (as pointed out by the OP).

Hmm! Last I checked it was pretty free and most people I know follow the rules and regulations. Not sure what ‘Canada’ you are talking about but it is definitely not the one I live in.

Chris

 

[rjwmorrell]

I don't dispute this, and being in the US I apologize for lacking the interest to research it and (hopefully) prove you wrong for your own benefit

I find this a bit shocking. The FAA allows me to launch off my back deck in an urban residential neighborhood, ascend to 200ft, then fly over houses, roads, cars parks, schools, shopping centers, etc. so long as I'm moving along going somewhere.

There is, of course, VLOS requirements, but as long I'm complying with all the rules, I'm allowed to be momentarily over people while "transitioning".

To not be able to do this would seem to prohibit flight over any urban area at all, because you can't see when someone might be in their yard until you're breaking the rules flying over then.

Do Canuck pilots stick to flying in the boonies, off shore, or open spaces like parks in urban environments?

Oh, you can fly over houses, cars etc in Canada no problem. Just not people who aren't in a house, car etc.

I have my UK drone pilot permit too, a Flyer ID etc, and the UK rules state occupied houses and cars count as people for the purposes of overflight.

At Peggy's Cove, NS, where I was flying in relation to this post, MANY tourists were walking on and over the rocks and paths from the parking lot, so overflying exposed people was a distinct risk and does violate the rules here. A 595g drone falling on someone from 20m or 30m AGL would certainly cause an injury and I think that's why.

 

[rjwmorrell]

Our Canadian neighbor is correct about the Canadian rules. No shock.

Find your category of drone operation

Categories of operations for drones

tc.canada.ca

What that summary doesn't tell you, but when you read the TC interpretative bulletins and exam material does, is that bystanders doesn't including people inside vehicles or buildings.

But at Peggy's Cove, there are people walking all over the place, it's chaos. To fly in compliance and still maintain VLOS you have to be selective about flying away from your launch point. Since I have an Advanced licence and a drone that complies, I can go within 30m horizontal distance of people (but not within 5m).

 

[johnnyb57]

Would you please explain why belittling insults are necessary?

Sorry bud I didnt do either, was questioning how a 107 lic was brought into this ? I've flown with both, and both can be good and bad ? Sorry you took it that way

 

[MS Coast]

Neither shocked nor surprise. Canada is not a free country and they are rife with rules and regulations....that pretty much nobody follows (as pointed out by the OP).

What recent experiences have you had in Canada that provide the basis for your conclusion? Canada has never seemed "un-free" to me and I've never encountered any widespread lawlessness as you suggest.

 

[Droning on and on...]

Hmm! Last I checked it was pretty free and most people I know follow the rules and regulations. Not sure what ‘Canada’ you are talking about but it is definitely not the one I live in.

Chris

Chris, you don't understand what "free" means.

In order to be "free" you must be allowed to fly drones over people while transitioning some where. 38 million people are oppressed because of this rule.

Apparently.

 

[PanoVolo]

hope you had a great vacation in our beautiful province. I don't see that many drones operating in Peggy's Cove (surprisingly) and never seen 2 flying at the same time. Bummer that the other pilot was seemingly less considerate. Night time is dead quiet even in the peak tourist season, my preferred time to visit the lighthouse for some astrophotography

 

[Chrislaf]

Chris, you don't understand what "free" means.

In order to be "free" you must be allowed to fly drones over people while transitioning some where. 38 million people are oppressed because of this rule.

Apparently.

I do understand what 'free' means, but when someone makes a factless generalized statement as mavic3usa did above then I'm going to call it out.

With regard to your statement about being free to fly drones over people while transitioning, I wouldn't call it oppression as that it a rather harsh label. Canada is a separate country from the US and although many of the drone rules are similar, there are differences just like many other rules for other things. You can't expect the rules to be the same as with everything rules and regulations differ between countries - you don't have to agree with them just like I don't agree with many of the laws in the US.

Not sure how this thread originally about deconfliction became a thread about the drone rules and regulations in Canada which no one here can change.

Chris

 

[Tolly]

We have six of us in a local group that fly together regularly and have done for two years. Usually three of us will be in the air at once and 3 will be observing. We have never even come close to having a mid air collision so your one-on-one with your heightened awareness would keep you safe. All a bit of a mountain out of a molehill methinks.

 

[lmh]

I find this a bit shocking. The FAA allows me to launch off my back deck in an urban residential neighborhood, ascend to 200ft, then fly over houses, roads, cars parks, schools, shopping centers, etc. so long as I'm moving along going somewhere.

My understanding is that flying over people, even transitioning, is only permitted under the rules for categorized drones, which the Mavic 3 pro and Air 2s aren't. Am I missing something? Of course you can fly over stationary cars and people in buildings but not people outside or in moving vehicles without a categorized drone.

 

[Droning on and on...]

@Chrislaf my mistake, I neglected the requisite emoticons to make clear my tongue was firmly planted in cheek. I'm in your camp w.r.t. your freedom... I hardly think the CAA rules constitute draconian oppression.

Some here do, and frankly I find it hilarious. 38 million Canadians are quite free