Flying my Air 2S ... and another pilot launching his Mavic 3 at the same time! A discussion on deconfliction

[rjwmorrell]

I'm on vacation this week in Nova Scotia, and yesterday we did a visit to Peggy's Cove, a popular tourist spot where there is a famous and often photographed lighthouse amongst the rocks.

As I was prepping my Air 2S for a flight to catch some imagery of the lighthouse and area, I heard the distinctive "whizzzz" of another drone already launching.

A guy about 30' away on a pedestrian platform decided to launch his Mavic 3 Pro from there and do the same thing.

Everybody is different, but if it were me, and I saw someone else setting up to fly, I might ask some deconfliction questions first. I didn't notice him because he was behind me, but he clearly would have seen me setting up ... I had the landing pad out, etc.

I decided there was plenty of visibility, and a feature I could do some video of first before I figured he'd be done at the lighthouse then I could move over there without a risk of collision. So I launched and followed a carefully planned flight route out to some rocks with no people being oveflown.

Almost guaranteed the other pilot was not licenced, or if he was he was completely ignoring the rules, as he overflow numerous people on his way to the lighthouse.

At one point I considered talking to him to see what his plans were as I was anxious to avoid a collision. Instead I just did "see & avoid" and made sure to keep an eye on his drone's movements while positioning mine 100m or more away from his and selecting a different altitude.

I wish drones had some anticollision technology, but I get that the added radio noise and added weight of that equipment would be less desirable.

As some precipitation started we were both anxious to land our drones and pack them away, which again led to another high risk moment, but I routed my drone well away from him and the numerous people that he was near anyway, so it was no issue (for me... he broke several laws however).

What are your thoughts? Have you ever had another pilot flying near you and did you take any time to discuss your intentions to avoid flying in eachother's planned routes etc? I guess I'm just happy he wasn't trying to chase my drone down or do anything dangerous while I had mine up, but I'm wondering if I should have done more to talk to them to encourage safer flying. The fact that he was ok with flying right over people sort of suggests that he wasn't going to take any advice from me anyway.

 

[mavic3usa]

You are absolutely right that everyone is going to be different so please take my opinions as nothing more than what I would have done or maybe have done in the past. In no way trying to be harsh or even imply I knew what was going on with your situation, so here goes:

Absolutely not will I pay for anti-collision avoidance tech on my drones. It is 100% not needed and honestly, it probably wouldn't work that well anyway, meaning when you needed it the most. Instead it will simply unnecessarily prevent you from having a nice flight most likely. I think it's not really an issue we need to deal with; do RC planes have this tech (or FPV pilots) because I see a bunch of them flying around together in the same space and they manage, despite the speeds; I could be wrong. Seems to me, drone flyers unfounded mistrust of each other is what leads to this type of thinking. If that's the case, if I saw someone that I thought wasn't "capable" then I wouldn't fly nearby rather than fly and hope for some sort of coordinator or anti-collision or my insurance. A drone's battery is an hour or less, certainly time management is your friend.

I noticed you mentioned a couple of times that he probably didn't have a license and/or he broke the rules many times....and you haven't? When you drive cars, do you make the same observations of other drivers? Obviously everyone on the road is out to collide with you (but not on purpose)....I feel the same sometimes especially when I'm on the motorcycle....but it doesn't stop my from driving; I manage the risk. If there is a common POI and it's crowded, I would be inclined to go with first-come-first-serve and honestly, for me, that can be done without having a conversation. In the middle of nowhere, a meet and greet might be called for but in the ordinary public space, I wouldn't....and I wouldn't expect someone to approach me (but then again, I'm not very approachable). Drones unite us and if that's an ice breaker which could eventually lead to a conversation about how you guys plan to fly, sure. But personally I don't think you need to "de-conflict" unless you want to mention "hey you go ahead and finish and when you're done, I have a 30-minute battery that I plan to use" and then fly for 15-minutes.

You're on vacation so time is a factor. I usually leave and come back another day if I can't be alone or fly somewhere else. Understand your situation with meeting someone on site (as opposite to going somewhere *with* someone which is a different story) and I don't know what goes on in Canada but in America, flying a recreational drone is a hobby and you don't need a license or permit and people should be free to fly within the rules mostly however they wish unless it appears they are careless/reckless to someone or property (which I didn't hear you mention). So I wouldn't sweat it (not a missed opportunity) and personally I would never give advice unless asked. Sorry for being so long or straying off the discussion a bit.

 

[rjwmorrell]

I hold an Advanced RPAS pilot Certificate, and my Air 2S is compliant for flight within 30m of bystanders (but not "over") so I maintained a min. 5 m/15ft horizontal distance from people while flying yesterday. I also did a site survey, as required under the Canadian Aviation Regulations, taking note of nearby controlled airspace in the event of a flyaway. I consulted my checklist as I was preparing to launch.

The other pilot literally just took his drone out, unfolded its prop arms, and launched from where he was. So yes, I assessed he was probably not licenced, or if he was, he was not flowing the CARs because of those deliberate steps you must take before launching (as well as the fact he was flying right over people).

But I take your other points. I don't want to trade battery life for needless anti collision technology. It was annoying having to keep an eye on two drones in the air,but not unmanageable.

I did want to get some footage while I was there because it's a 2 hour drive from where I'm staying and I won't be back this week. Ideally, I would have gone at sunrise to get the first golden hour of the day, but in Nova Scotia that's not a reliable plan as there is often morning fog this time of year. Alas, no incident occurred, but I had scary visions of a drone on drone midair collision - I've seen video of one and that was playing in my head as I was flying. Luckily, nothing of the sort happened and we both carried on with our day, I just thought the other pilot was a little less attentive to safety than I was.

 

[mavic3usa]

Awesome, hope you are able to get all the great footage you can. All too often we leave somewhere and didn't spend as much time as we would like only having to dream about coming back again one day. I hear ya, usually it is in place where the weather and the daylight is so important, you might not get another shot all week long. To me, that's worth the risk and I would certain take a chance even if there were half a dozen other drones on site. I think I might have seen that "collision" video, too but I didn't pay much attention to it's authenticity. If the other flyers have expensive (nice) drones, hopefully they care as much as me and would hate to go home with a drone in pieces. Over time, we can expect more drones, not less. Time to start planning for that.

 

[Starz]

which again led to another high risk moment

One thought would be to have waited until the other drone got put away.
At that point the “risk” would have been far less.(there’s always risk with anything that flys)
I have repacked several times just to completely avoid the risk of losing some hardware and or having to contend with any injuries to bystanders.
Be safe and have fun!

 

[rjwmorrell]

One thought would be to have waited until the other drone got put away.
At that point the “risk” would have been far less.(there’s always risk with anything that flys)
I have repacked several times just to completely avoid the risk of losing some hardware and or having to contend with any injuries to bystanders.
Be safe and have fun!

We both were terminating because of precipitation, I don't think either of us wanted to delay that in case a downpour started.

 

[shb]

I don't know how y

as he overflow numerous people on his way to the lighthouse.

I don't know you can fly a drone without sometimes flying over people. All the time I've been flying I've only seen one other drone flying, at white beach, Puerto Galera Philippines.
So I guess we're lucky their really aren't that many drones per person. I probably would have tried to get some shots of the other drone just for the hell of it. Glad you didn't have any problems.

 

[rjwmorrell]

I don't know how y

I don't know you can fly a drone without sometimes flying over people. All the time I've been flying I've only seen one other drone flying, at white beach, Puerto Galera Philippines.
So I guess we're lucky their really aren't that many drones per person. I probably would have tried to get some shots of the other drone just for the hell of it. Glad you didn't have any problems.

Well, it's the rule in Canada. I can't speak to the Philippines rules.

 

[PepperBird]

"Almost guaranteed the other pilot was not licenced, or if he was he was completely ignoring the rules, as he overflow numerous people on his way to the lighthouse." but he was flying a Mavic 3 Pro? That is quite the assumption.

I would take it at face value that someone who spent $5000 on a drone is more than a hobbyist.

 

[MavicAir2Marc]

I would take it at face value that someone who spent $5000 on a drone is more than a hobbyist.

There are plenty examples of people with more money than sense....

 

[johnnyb57]

Whats with the License questioning, as it doesnt matter ? All you needed to do was ask hey what elevation will you be flyin at you have eyes ahd so does the other pilot... Sounds to me your one of those Karens thinkin your better than the rest ???

 

[RoarRoar]

All you had to do was walk over say “hey I’m flying (or want to fly) around X Spot at around this altitude just to give you the heads up”.

 

[PepperBird]

There are plenty examples of people with more money than sense....

So you assume that a person who has invested $5000 in a drone is stupid, because you are flying a sub $1000 drone? "well well, believe that too!"

 

[MavicAir2Marc]

So you assume that a person who has invested $5000 in a drone is stupid, because you are flying a sub $1000 drone? "well well, believe that too!"

I didn't assume anything, I was just making a statement.

 

[Starz]

I don't think either of us wanted to delay

Seems to be leaning towards the risk side of risk verses reward. Good that all went well.

 

[Torque]

I occasionally fly with 2 or 3 UAS pilots over the waterfront in both Tacoma and Seattle. We are constantly alerting the other(s) of each move we make. If we are flying in the same direction, we each pick an altitude and stick to it, only changing heights after coordinating with the other pilots. We also use lights to help easily spot each other in flight.

A few weeks ago I ran into this same situation with a fellow drone pilot. I was sitting up and waiting for satellites when I noticed a young guy walking with a drone towards the end of the parking lot. He was 50 ft or so away, and hadn't noticed me as I was partly hidden by my car from his perspective. I shouted "Hey buddy, what you flying? I'm about to launch my Mavic 3." He was happy to see another pilot. He was flying a Mini 3 Pro and was studying for his 107.
We flew a couple of batteries together, he said he'd never flown with another pilot and was happy for the experience. He was here visiting family and wanted to get as much footage of the Puget Sound as he could. I gave him a couple of sweet spots to fly from where LAANC approval either wasn't needed or was quickly granted.
So my advice would be simply approach the other pilot, make conversation and see if you both can safely coordinate your flights.

 

[MS Coast]

I'm on vacation this week in Nova Scotia, and yesterday we did a visit to Peggy's Cove, a popular tourist spot where there is a famous and often photographed lighthouse amongst the rocks.

As I was prepping my Air 2S for a flight to catch some imagery of the lighthouse and area, I heard the distinctive "whizzzz" of another drone already launching.

A guy about 30' away on a pedestrian platform decided to launch his Mavic 3 Pro from there and do the same thing.

Everybody is different, but if it were me, and I saw someone else setting up to fly, I might ask some deconfliction questions first. I didn't notice him because he was behind me, but he clearly would have seen me setting up ... I had the landing pad out, etc.

I decided there was plenty of visibility, and a feature I could do some video of first before I figured he'd be done at the lighthouse then I could move over there without a risk of collision. So I launched and followed a carefully planned flight route out to some rocks with no people being oveflown.

Almost guaranteed the other pilot was not licenced, or if he was he was completely ignoring the rules, as he overflow numerous people on his way to the lighthouse.

At one point I considered talking to him to see what his plans were as I was anxious to avoid a collision. Instead I just did "see & avoid" and made sure to keep an eye on his drone's movements while positioning mine 100m or more away from his and selecting a different altitude.

I wish drones had some anticollision technology, but I get that the added radio noise and added weight of that equipment would be less desirable.

As some precipitation started we were both anxious to land our drones and pack them away, which again led to another high risk moment, but I routed my drone well away from him and the numerous people that he was near anyway, so it was no issue (for me... he broke several laws however).

I take issue with the negative comments and name calling here. Good on you for noticing the other fellow with the drone and good on you for recognizing the potential for problems. Situational awareness is always a good thing. I think you were justified in being wary of the other guy.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people flying very expensive drones who have little to no understanding of the regulations or simple common sense good practice. Some are like the "credit card captains" we see running brand new $100,000, 500+ hp boats on the weekend here who think the red and green markers are just decorations and right of way is a land access issue. I don't want to be on the water or in the air near folks with more credit or cash than capability.

As a licensed drone pilot, you're more knowledgeable and capable than most, if not almost all, the drone operators you encounter. Until you establish otherwise, it's not wise to trust that the other person will know what they're doing or will fly safely.

If you'll flying near someone, I do think it's a good idea to coordinate with them about what you're both planning to do. It's sensible and courteous. If they seem potentially irresponsible, don't try to play drone cop. Just put the drone in the car and leave.

Post a photo of Peggy's Cove?

 

[Droning on and on...]

Well, it's the rule in Canada. I can't speak to the Philippines rules.

Is it that strict, really?

In the US operations over people is prohibited without following special rules, equipment, and obtaining a waiver, but transitioning over people briefly on the way to a mission site is allowed.

Is that not the case in Canada?

 

[Droning on and on...]

I would take it at face value that someone who spent $5000 on a drone is more than a hobbyist.

Hmmm... plenty of rich, and really, not-so-rich with hobbies far more expensive than drones, even $5k ones.

Price out a top-of-the-line Mountain Bike. Or a pair of Jet Skis and a trailer. Heck, a nice water skiing boat.

And that's without really thinking much about it.

 

[Droning on and on...]

Whats with the License questioning, as it doesnt matter ? All you needed to do was ask hey what elevation will you be flyin at you have eyes ahd so does the other pilot... Sounds to me your one of those Karens thinkin your better than the rest ???

Would you please explain why belittling insults are necessary?