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Flying whilst doing other stuff

AeroJ

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Just watched what I consider to be a rather valuable video, of our friend Mario here taking his little M4P out on an Active track test flight, making some deeply questionable decisions along the way and after the inevitable crash, 'carrying on regardless' before eventually coming to his senses and aborting mission. But I repost this not to criticize his decisions - he knows where he went wrong, and posts this as a warning, and so others can learn from his errors, so all props to him there (new ones presumably! :)

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But it did make me think about the wider question, which nobody is really mentioning in the comments, and that is: 'Are we ever going to be properly safe whilst in charge of 2 moving vehicles at once ?!'

My very first introduction to EUCs (electric unicycles) was a video I saw of a drone guy filming himself riding one, and he was doing that way before drones had any sort of automatic tracking features - he was riding and piloting the UAV backwards with no 'machine help', which I thought was amazing at the time ! I have ridden EUCs ever since, and still love that hobby, yet even as a rider with 7 years practical XP on both wheels and flying drones (never manual modes tho) I still don't feel truly capable of safely doing both these things at once and giving sufficient attention to the control of each machine.

And yet, so many people try ! :) And I remain fascinated by their attempts, a lot of which work perfectly well, and seem safe, although it does seem to be impossible to do legally as far as I can gather. For example, the people who track their own cars regularly don't have line of sight of it most of the time, if at all, and I am astonished to see cyclists casually popping their RCs into their backpacks before merrily riding off on their quests, seemingly unbothered by how long it would take them to retrieve control of the craft if it all went wrong. And, if you are navigating some hellish downhill bike trail, surely you need 100% of your attention on that, and not falling off, which means NONE of your attention can be on the drone, and often for great extended periods of time ! And then there's the people who just dangle the RC round their necks on flimsy little lanyards where they are free to bounce about and get their control sticks caught in all the things and I just wonder why this sort of thing isn't more generally objected to !

So just positing that thought to see what everyone else thinks ! Is it reasonable to try and control 2 machines at once, when both require quite a lot of concentration and looking at other things !? Or are my instincts about this massively overly-cautious and unadventurous ?

Don't get me wrong - I am all for testing the features of stuff, and I certainly can't see much wrong with (for example) going to a quiet non-busy park and trying all the things, but I'd never get over the worry of having a controller on me that can't be made immune from fall damage if I crash the wheel. So I have only done those tests so far when I have a (trained) friend / observer along who can watch the drone and hold the controller while I ride.

And now I am going to uniwheel myself to a polling station to vote. As you have probably surmised from the above - I am NOT taking the M4P, even though I am confident that if I only kept it high enough (so no trees or ground based obstacles were ever a problem), it would probably do it just fine ! :)
 
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...Is it reasonable to try and control 2 machines at once, when both require quite a lot of concentration and looking at other things !? Or are my instincts about this massively overly-cautious and unadventurous ?
This isn't a mystery at all... in general the only thing a human can do is to switch focus, not keep attention on more than one thing at a time (& some can't even handle one task at a time). Even women can't, whatever they think... they are just very good at switching task in the middle of the previous one & then go back & forth.

People are mostly opportunistic & try to be effective... with little regard to possible consequences, see it every day when people driving a car while fiddling around with their phones & cyclists coming towards you in the wrong lane, smiling when they read a new Facebook post.
 
Flying a drone whilst in charge of any sort of vehicle is insanity in my opinion, verging on criminal when done in built up etc. areas, especially on public roads or footpaths etc..
You can not concentrate on two such things at once, hence prosecutions and fines for using a phone whilst driving.

God forbid that a drone hits someone whilst tracking but if it does then the pilot is likely to be in serious trouble, especially if the controller was put away somewhere.

In the UK, unless there is a specific exception within CAA regs for tracking, then I would not be surprised if the CPS considered bringing a criminal prosecution for at least dangerous flying or some such thing, and possibly dangerous driving, against the pilot. I may be mistaken but I have the recollection that cycling offences can now be added to, or recorded on, your driving license.
I would also expect a civil suit to be launched, for damages.

If someone wants to do it, out in the back of beyond, where it is ONLY their neck and drone at risk then, by all means, carry on, but where they endanger other people then they deserve what ever they reap and possibly more.

Three videos and one recent incident immediately spring to mind

Video 1) in, I think Mexico, a group of American cyclists set a skydio drone to follow them whilst they were careering, and I use the word appropriately, through traffic in a town centre.
At one point the drone, flying at speed, missed a woman and child on a bridge by a few feet if not inches. The drone then got lost and ended up in a CROWDED shopping mall, police were called or attended. Unfortunately I think the police took little action.

Video 2) A european cyclist put the controller in his back pack and cyclced several miles along a cylce/foot path, they forgot about low battery RTH, which was triggered, and took the drone back to the launch point. As the drone was descending at the launch point another cyclist passed underneath the drone, if timings had been different by a few seconds then ......

Video 3) A Canandian cyclist was riding around their equivalent of a housing estate with the drone tracking them, the drone flew into one of those big yellow school buses they use there. From memory it collided with the body work not far above the left hand side windscreen which I think is their driver's side.
Fortunately the bus was crawling and no harm was done to the bus or any person but things could have been very different especially if the drone had been a few inches lower.

Incident,

I will probably get flak for this post but this is my opinion.
 
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This isn't a mystery at all... in general the only thing a human can do is to switch focus, not keep attention on more than one thing at a time (& some can't even handle one task at a time).
I would agree more fully with that if it weren't for the fact that when riding (in my case and for example) my EUC, SO MUCH of the skills required to keep that driving are 'feel-based' and hard-encoded into years of muscle memory. I don't have to think about riding that thing anymore, even though it is one of the most technically difficult models to ride - I have a level of connection with it that means that most of my attention when riding it is on scanning the near and mid field path ahead for obstacles that might need avoiding. The physical actions and response times to actually do that successfully are what I would consider 'fully automatic'.

So the reason I feel uncomfortable doing it on my setup is mainly the 'carrying the controller' thing, and what happens to it, and the thing it controls in the rather unlikely event that I crash my wheel. And I would not enjoy having my attention split between tracking craft in sky and upcoming terrain for the wheel. The key to success on that wheel (and I guess with the drone also) is knowing what's coming, and I don't think I can do both enough to be safe !

Also, that wheel is in constant bluetooth coms with my phone, which sits on my wrist, sounding a whole OTHER set of bleeps and warnings to alert me to wheel status - I worry about monitoring and differentiating all those sounds from the ones made by the RC and any voice control headcams I may have on at the time. AND 3rd party wheel accessories, which bleep to let me know when they need a charge ! It could get very very bleepy in some circumstances, and a lot of the time it would be easy to confuse which one was coming from where !
 
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If someone wants to do it, out in the back of beyond, where it is ONLY their neck and drone at risk then, by all means, carry on, but where they endanger other people then they deserve what ever they reap and possibly more.
Agreed. Whilst I do give some small allowance for the fact that a lot of these dodgy vids we see are in America (where they seem much more willing to try these things in urban settings, and a lot of them think that will be just fine), there is no way I would ever condone that sort of thing on UK roads.

Country tracks maybe, and as you say miles out in the back and beyond why the hell not, but it is surely madness to bring them into towns and do this sort of thing...
 
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...my EUC The physical actions and response times to actually do that successfully are what I would consider 'fully automatic'.
Only operating "something" isn't enough if the "task" also needs awareness of what's going on around you.
 
Regardless, in the US it is a clear (and serious) violation of the FAA regs. It does so in many places throughout, but one very familiar is VLOS, which requires you are watching the drone, not just having it within view should you look at it.
 
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Ok, folks, I have read through this thread and see that it's getting side tracked.

I am going to do some editing and house cleaning and ask that everyone stay civil. This forum is for EVERYONE and every gender.

Thanks for your cooperation in this matter
 
My nephew-in-law does that when dirt-biking: puts the tracker gadget in his pocket and the drone follows him. (Not a DJI, maybe Autel?) He's out in the desert with nothing around.

In Canada that would be illegal, but he's in California so I hope it's OK there.

901.37 No pilot shall operate a remotely piloted aircraft while operating a moving vehicle, vessel or manned aircraft.

 
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Wrong drone for the job; try this one:

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I do Drone security and I also use a golf cart in an area with little traffic. What I won't do is both at the same time Thats just asking the drone gods to hurt someone I land the drone when my spotter tells me and THEN we drive to it and takeoff again The emergency rooms are filled with "it could never happen" stories. I stick with safety. I believe distracted driving is against the law. It is in the U.S. anyways.
 
My nephew-in-law does that when dirt-biking: puts the tracker gadget in his pocket and the drone follows him. (Not a DJI, maybe Autel?) He's out in the desert with nothing around.

In Canada that would be illegal, but he's in California so I hope it's OK there.



NOT A CHANCE tell him to STOP that. If he gets caught he faces some hefty fines and if he hurts someone while doing it ........it won't be good!
 
...FAA regs. It does so in many places throughout, but one very familiar is VLOS, which requires you are watching the drone, not just having it within view should you look at it.

That is not true in the UK though, not that I use it as evidence for it being a good idea ! :) Our VLOS law definitely does NOT compel you to be looking at the drone 100% of the time, just that you are able to do so, and quickly determine its orientation. TBH if the FAA DOES compel 100% drone viewing you couldn't EVER look down at your screens could you, and how many of you have done flights where you managed (or even attempted) that ?!
 
Our VLOS law definitely does NOT compel you to be looking at the drone 100% of the time
Please quote/cite the relevant portion of the regs.
Second point, if the drone is at any sort of distance it can be very difficult to impossible to find after even a glance at the controller.
The only way I have been able to do it is park/hover the drone in line with or around a visible background marker.
If I have lost sight of the drone but know approximately. where it was in the sky i.e. I am able to look for it in the correct direction, and RTHed it then it is still very difficult to spot, bear in mind an RTHing drone appears to climb as it approache you, even at a constant height, and, more often than not, my minis have been more or less at/above the home point before I have regained sight of them.
 
Please quote/cite the relevant portion of the regs.
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Nowhere there is a compulsion to be looking at it 100% of the time. Always keeping it in sight, is not the same as constantly look at it. If it was that would be mental - of COURSE we need to look down at our screens periodically just like we need to look around the landing area when it's time to do that ! Also we should periodically check the whole 360 for other aircraft, which obviously involves removing your eyes from the craft at some point !

I am not advocating spending a whole flight session with your eyes glued to the screen. But there is a middle ground any safety-based rules must surely accept as reasonable ?
The only way I have been able to do it is park/hover the drone in line with or around a visible background marker.
Yeah ! That's how I do it too ! Works quite well no ?! :)

I don't disagree with any of your points except that specific requirement, which I do accept may be open to some interpretation, and IMO HAS to be, otherwise it might as well say 'do not ever fly' !
 
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To me the meaning of "Always keep your drone or model aircraft in sight" is perfectly clear, if you are not looking at the drone and can not see it then it is not "in sight" and you fail to comply with the regulation.

That said I would bet most of us have either flown out of VLOS or lost sight of the drone for other reasons.
 
To me the meaning of "Always keep your drone or model aircraft in sight" is perfectly clear, if you are not looking at the drone and can not see it then it is not "in sight" and you fail to comply with the regulation.

That said I would bet most of us have either flown out of VLOS or lost sight of the drone for other reasons.
Wow, if that is how you view that, and what you somehow manage to abide by - I am beyond impressed. I don't think, in 10 years of this hobby I have ever seen a video of someone flying a drone where they don't look down at the screen multiple times in the average 25 minute flight. Have you ever seen one where that is the case ?! :) And are you really telling me that you do not have regular cause to look at yours during every flight you make ?!! I don't want to disbelieve you but I simply don't see how it's possible ! ALL your most useful flight information is on that screen and we NEED to be looking at it sometimes !
 
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No I haven't and I too have glanced at the controller etc. but if push comes to shove then I think the letter of the law/regulation is clear.
Well then that rule is not fit for purpose and should be clarified and updated immediately !

Oh, I am also informed by the Geeksvana interviews I have seen with CAA guys, who happily acknowledge we don't need to be looking at the craft 100% of the time, and the importance of knowing what is on that screen, certainly in terms of distance, altitude, battery times, signal strength, OA / GPS status etc etc ! Not to mention the exceptionally valuable relative positional information that radar and the other screen overlays provide... to deny ourselves that help when it is so eminently available - well that seems about as mad as mad can get, and utterly contrary to safety !

This is why I love the 'Xjet approach' - Brucey over there tries his best to fly within the rules, but will happily instantly override them if there are better safety-based reasons to do so. I find that approach hard to disagree with.
 
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