Flyovers in Wooded Areas

[Hurricane Eye]

That would be true if the limitations definitely prevented the Mini carrying out the mission. However, if the OP avoids flying in strong winds and breaks the project down into missions which stay within the range of the drone, the Mini should be quite capable of doing what he wants.

Thanks SkyeHigh and others, lots of good advice from you all, but yours might be the best. I will break things down so that each mission is only about 10-20 acres each. That should keep me in contact with Miss Mini!

 

[KB4MTO]

Part 107 does not have a MIN weight aspect. It has a MAX weight, MAX speed etc but no MIN at all. Any UAS flown outside of Hobby/Recreational use (notice you don't have to make $$ to fall outside of this) requires Part 107 and Registration. There are some areas that do not require Part 107 but they are well outside the scope of this conversation such as Govt Use and Public Safety COAs.

Correct, the 107 doesn't have a minimum, but FAA requires any drone weighing 250 grams (.55 lbs) or more to be registered with the FAA as either 107 if used commercially or as a recreational drone.

In the case of the OP, he is flying a 249 gram drone (as long as he hasn't added anything) commercially which would require a 107 registration.

I have a cree LED beacon for my Maviuc Mini. That puts it over 249 grams. If I only flew the MM recreationally, I would still be required to register it as a recreational drone because of the weight. However, I'm waiting on my permanent 107 to come through and will register it as a 107 drone, so I am not flying with the beacon yet.

 

[BigAl07]

Correct, the 107 doesn't have a minimum, but FAA requires any drone weighing 250 grams (.55 lbs) or more to be registered with the FAA as either 107 if used commercially or as a recreational drone.

In the case of the OP, he is flying a 249 gram drone (as long as he hasn't added anything) commercially which would require a 107 registration.

I have a cree LED beacon for my Maviuc Mini. That puts it over 249 grams. If I only flew the MM recreationally, I would still be required to register it as a recreational drone because of the weight. However, I'm waiting on my permanent 107 to come through and will register it as a 107 drone, so I am not flying with the beacon yet.

I think you're splitting hairs but still agreeing with what I said. I was tryin to state that there is no weight allowance for Part 107 because your statement made it sound like Part 107 had weight allowances for Registration.

....The Part 107 is for commercial use of your drone. It does incorporate drone weight limits, but even if you are outside of those limits....

Any aircraft operated outside of Hobby operations must be flown under Part 107. Part 107 requires EVERY aircraft to be commercially registered (each aircraft gets a unique Commercial FAA#).

 

[Hurricane Eye]

Welcome to the forum

I don't have any advice but know your airspace. It can get kind of dicey down there depending on where you're flying. Make sure you have Part 107 and your NC Commercial UAS Operator's Permit (It's free and super easy).

Hello again, @BigAl07, @Meta4, @KB4MTO, and @Kyle76. Your comments regarding Part 107 got me looking into the term "used for commercial purposes". I am definitely NOT trying to start an argument here, but so far, I haven't been able to find anything in federal definitions of the term, particularly in relation to aircraft, that would require me to have a Part 107 license IF we don't charge our clients for use of the drone. I am basing my interpretation of this term on the definition found here:

18 U.S. Code § 31.(a)(10): Used for commercial purposes.— The term “used for commercial purposes” means the carriage of persons or property for any fare, fee, rate, charge or other consideration, or directly or indirectly in connection with any business, or other undertaking intended for profit.

In my mind, the key phrase here is "for profit". While it is true that we will be charging our client for services rendered in relation to our inspection of the property, there is no mention of the use of a drone in the cost estimate included in our contractual agreement. Additionally, the drone is not listed on our company's equipment fee schedule. In other words, neither I nor my company will benefit financially in any way from my use of the Mini.

I know, or at least I'm assuming, that none of us here are attorneys, but is there a specific definition or example of “used for commercial purposes” that you can point me to that might help me understand your line of interpretation, or I'm I just looking past something obvious in an attempt to ignore a legal requirement? They say that ignorance is no excuse, so if I'm being ignorant, I really would appreciate your efforts to enlighten me.

 

[BigAl07]

What you're missing is this.... Making $$ is but ONE aspect that requires Part 107. You're doing this FOR someone else. You're doing this as part of your work. You're charging for the WORK. This is in no way even remotely HOBBY and you're wasting your time and breathe trying to argue it is.

Every UAS operator, by default, is Part 107. The ONLY way you can get protection from Part 107 regulations is to fly COMPLETELY within the Hobby/Recreational bubble. If any portion of your flight pierces that protective bubble you are held completely responsible for ALL Part 107. Your flights are 100% not HOBBY in even the more outlandish definition.

You have 3 Options in the USA:
a) Fly under Part 107
b) Fly under Public Use/Public Safety/Govt COA
c) Fly strictly within the criteria for HOBBY

Your flight is WELL outside of HOBBY in any respect of the term. I'm not speaking randomly... I'm telling you this as an FAA Safety Team Representative, and an FAA Safety Team Drone Professional (Charlotte NC Region). If you'd like to call your local FSDO and explain your scenario and get it in writing that's fine but I'm speaking as FAAST Representative here. If you were to have an incident or have someone report your actions to the FAA, and you were in my region, I would most likely be one of the people making contact with you.

We've had this argument probably hundreds of times here on the forum, some of them had fairly resonable arguments (they were still wrong) but to be honest... your situation is completely and totally not HOBBY and 100% requires Part 107.

 

[Meta4]

Your comments regarding Part 107 got me looking into the term "used for commercial purposes". I am definitely NOT trying to start an argument here, but so far, I haven't been able to find anything in federal definitions of the term, particularly in relation to aircraft, that would require me to have a Part 107 license IF we don't charge our clients for use of the drone.

That's probably going to trigger about twenty posts of varying accuracy attempting to define commercial flight.
What you said back here:

I am using it for work, but we don't advertise it as a service and won't be charging for its use.

.... makes it sound exactly like commercial flight.

I am basing my interpretation of this term on the definition found here:
18 U.S. Code § 31.(a)(10): Used for commercial purposes.— The term “used for commercial purposes” means the carriage of persons or property for any fare, fee, rate, charge or other consideration, or directly or indirectly in connection with any business, or other undertaking intended for profit.

In my mind, the key phrase here is "for profit".

What about directly or indirectly in connection with any business, or other undertaking intended for profit ???
That seems to spell out what you are planning quite well.

 

[BigAl07]

I know, or at least I'm assuming, that none of us here are attorneys, but is there a specific definition or example of “used for commercial purposes” that you can point me to that might help me understand your line of interpretation, or I'm I just looking past something obvious in an attempt to ignore a legal requirement? They say that ignorance is no excuse, so if I'm being ignorant, I really would appreciate your efforts to enlighten me.

Follow this link and you'll find your local contact for the FAA where you can submit your question:

Tampa FSDO-Contact the Office

www.faa.gov

Be sure to include your original statement:

Hi all, I'm prepping for my first big project, a site inspection/video flyover on 275 acres of fairly flat, wooded property in coastal North Carolina.

Sincerely,
Allen

 

[Hurricane Eye]

What you're missing is this.... Making $$ is but ONE aspect that requires Part 107. You're doing this FOR someone else. You're doing this as part of your work. You're charging for the WORK. This is in no way even remotely HOBBY and you're wasting your time and breathe trying to argue it is.

Every UAS operator, by default, is Part 107. The ONLY way you can get protection from Part 107 regulations is to fly COMPLETELY within the Hobby/Recreational bubble. If any portion of your flight pierces that protective bubble you are held completely responsible for ALL Part 107. Your flights are 100% not HOBBY in even the more outlandish definition.

You have 3 Options in the USA:
a) Fly under Part 107
b) Fly under Public Use/Public Safety/Govt COA
c) Fly strictly within the criteria for HOBBY

Your flight is WELL outside of HOBBY in any respect of the term. I'm not speaking randomly... I'm telling you this as an FAA Safety Team Representative, and an FAA Safety Team Drone Professional (Charlotte NC Region). If you'd like to call your local FSDO and explain your scenario and get it in writing that's fine but I'm speaking as FAAST Representative here. If you were to have an incident or have someone report your actions to the FAA, and you were in my region, I would most likely be one of the people making contact with you.

We've had this argument probably hundreds of times here on the forum, some of them had fairly resonable arguments (they were still wrong) but to be honest... your situation is completely and totally not HOBBY and 100% requires Part 107.

 

[Hurricane Eye]

Thanks very much for your reply, @BigAl07. My apologies for not going through the forum and reviewing previous threads on this subject. As much as I would like to meet you and discuss the semantics of "for profit" and "used for commercial purposes", I don't think that I would enjoy doing it in the scenario you mentioned! I will leave Miss Mini at home and play with her when I get back. I appreciate your time, thanks again.

 

[Gauts]

Hi , I flew my Mini in the woods a month ago took off from a clearing of about a football field and soon as it was out of sight over the trees I lost signal and it returned home .
I also flew from my backyard last week to the lake in front of my house with about 100 meters of trees in between and started to lose signal as soon as the Mini got there so I would say if your not high enough you would not get to far.

 

[KB4MTO]

I think you're splitting hairs but still agreeing with what I said. I was tryin to state that there is no weight allowance for Part 107 because your statement made it sound like Part 107 had weight allowances for Registration.


I do agree, I think we are saying the same thing. My reply to you was only explaining my understanding of the limits of the 107, right or wrong. My original reply to the OP was to help him understand the requirements of legally needing the 107 to do commercial work. I didn't want him to get in trouble by not understanding the laws. I can see how my brushing over the weight limits could have caused confusion, I definitely could have worded it differently.

Happy Flying!

 

[Pocono mavic mini]

New to the forums but I do live deep in the woods so I hope I can help.
The trees here are mainly deciduous so this time of year I'd imagine I can fly further than say the middle of the summer. I was able to fly about 2200 ft at 300 ft altitude this week. I do live on the west side of a mountain and was standing on my septic mound for more height. I'm not sure if pine trees will inhibit the transmission signal but I'm going to assume it would as they don't shed needles when it starts to get cold out. If you want PM me and I'll give you the link the video I have.

 

[halifax]

I regularly fly woodlands. I just finished a project in Maine covering 3500 acres at elevations to 4000' ASL.

150' AGL is giving you little room for elevation-data error. In New England, eastern white pine can regularly run to 125' or better. Get some small localized knob/rise in the woods that is not in topo/LIDAR data and you'll be tangling in the branches.

Most importantly, when running waypoint missions that only have minimal clearance between tree tops and aircraft, use lots of waypoints (i.e., don't have long legs between waypoints if there is any concern about ground elevation variation). When sending my aircraft upslope in Maine last week, I was running 99-waypoint missions in Litchi (Mavic Pro 2). And I cross check my missions with GE/KML and Virtual Litchi Mission just to make sure...

 

[Hurricane Eye]

I regularly fly woodlands. I just finished a project in Maine covering 3500 acres at elevations to 4000' ASL.

150' AGL is giving you little room for elevation-data error. In New England, eastern white pine can regularly run to 125' or better. Get some small localized knob/rise in the woods that is not in topo/LIDAR data and you'll be tangling in the branches.

Most importantly, when running waypoint missions that only have minimal clearance between tree tops and aircraft, use lots of waypoints (i.e., don't have long legs between waypoints if there is any concern about ground elevation variation). When sending my aircraft upslope in Maine last week, I was running 99-waypoint missions in Litchi (Mavic Pro 2). And I cross check my missions with GE/KML and Virtual Litchi Mission just to make sure...

Thanks, @halifax, good advice there. I'll keep that in mind when I get out in the woods again. For now, I'm focusing on getting my Mini registered and myself licensed!