FYI: no-drone signage at Naval Base doesn't appear as restricted airspace on app/map

[journo]

I'm a 107 remote pilot and photojournalist working in Washington State. An interesting observation regarding a sign I noticed during a non-flight photo assignment in tiny Keyport WA unrelated to this Naval Base there (one of multiple restricted base areas in Kitsap County). I noticed a small sign with a drone in a circle and bar -- stating "Warning/Prohibited" -- at the entrance to the base (shown in Google map photo; drone signage is at right). I had never seen a government anti-drone sign before and was curious to know if the drone restriction matched 'unauthorized' airspace on an app or other FAA mapping site. It didn't. I checked KittyHawk and it did not show this airspace over Keyport as restricted. When I got home, I looked at Visualize It, and it also does not show Keyport as restricted airspace on its map (see attached; Keyport is the black dot). Other Department of Defense restricted areas are clearly seen in nearby blocked-out restricted airspace shown in color.

This is a general FYI. Be careful. The signage is very small and threatens prosecution. You'd have to drive right up to it to even see it. In this particular case, some resources we use to fly safe, including apps and maps, do not appear to match military base signage on the ground.

 

[icecoldgin]

I would think that all military installations should be NFZs for drones.

Remember, these images go back to China ?

Sorry, I couldn't resist

 

[pelagic_one]

This appears to be part of a Kitsap County ordinance requiring drone flights be registered with the Navy in advance of flying within an area surrounding the Keyport Underwater Warfare Center. This also extends to the other four Naval bases within the county. I do find it interesting that Kittyhawk doesn’t denote restricted airspace here.

 

[jjgolfhacker]

I would think that all military installations should be NFZs for drones.

Remember, these images go back to China ?

Sorry, I couldn't resist

I think they are I travel with my drone often to military bases in the US and overseas and I've never been to a base that would allow me to launch my drone in or close to the installation.

 

[Ralph thompson]

I would check the official government or Jeppesen VFR charts and transport authority NOTAMS for the area, you’ll almost certainly see it’s restricted and no VFR traffic allowed. That means no drones either. In sensitive areas I’d forget about Apps, the law will look at the government issued charts.

 

[BigAl07]

First off, why in the world would a US Military Base NOT be a Restricted Zone for flying our UAS? I mean look at the safety measures they have in place to keep John Q. Public from just walking in. Why would flying a drone over such an area be a good/allowed action?

Let's not forget that any land owner/manager has every right to restrict flight FROM their property. That sign could simply mean you are restricted from operating on/from their property (which you can't get to anyway).

What happens if you take off outside the property, fly over it, and happen to lose the aircraft inside the boundary?

FWIW I think that area should be a Restricted Flight Zone and it should be SOP that we can't fly UAS over Military Bases/Compounds etc.

 

[Dogpilot]

Well if you look at the VFR chart for lets say San Diego. You can fly over North Island NAS at 3300' and Pt Loma, home to west coast SSN's at 2800'. Now if they where worried about the Chinese getting images, then they should perhaps limit the students from Gillespie field, many of whom are Chinese. I used to fly out of North Island and recently was landing my seaplane on the bay right by the bridge with tower approval. So aircraft are certainly not restricted. However it kind of makes sense about UAV's. Mainly due to the fact that John Q Public is piloting them. Pilots at least need some kind of training. The average Joe gets none. Of course enforcement is kind of a joke.

I will circle back to Burning Man. We had a program there to train drone operators on who what and where and when. We ended up having to cancel it and institute a no-drone policy. Why, because folks would see a drone and say, "oh, I guess I can fly mine here too." It was impossible to control or enforce. I had similar problems with kites, flying over the runway. It took forever to find the flyer, and you had a string to follow!

 

[Ralph thompson]

Unfortunately, every UAV flight made without regard to the law or common sense is another nail in the coffin of our freedom to fly UAV’s sensibly. As said above, why would anyone think it was wise to fly a drone close to a military base, or an airport or an aérodrome of any category without planning and an understanding with the operator.

 

[journo]

This appears to be part of a Kitsap County ordinance requiring drone flights be registered with the Navy in advance of flying within an area surrounding the Keyport Underwater Warfare Center. This also extends to the other four Naval bases within the county. I do find it interesting that Kittyhawk doesn’t denote restricted airspace here.

I've never seen this. Thanks. The Kitsap ordinance is not listed on any of the state drone law lists online I've bookmarked, which are broken down by county, and have more to do with parks. I think the two issues for me regarding all this is 1) I'm relying on specific guides in KittyHawk app only, and that appears to be a potential weakness in my flight planning. 2) This warning signage is at the end of a small road and if I had not drive up to it, I would never have known this base area was even located near pretty water views, a market and a community dock.

 

[pelagic_one]

This warning signage is at the end of a small road and if I had not drive up to it, I would never have known this base area was even located near pretty water views, a market and a community dock.

As a Navy veteran and a Navy brat before the career, I‘ve explored around both sides of their barbed wire fences...hiking, biking and running. In my experience, you’ll see more warning signage around the more sensitive areas.

I guess it’s all relevant. Keyport appears to be lab space with no submarines, so the signage is sparse. Venturing around Bremerton and Bangor would most certainly have more visible and prevalent signage, given the fleet ballistic missile subs are a one-minute Mavic flight away.

The great news is you’ve got miles and miles of flyable coastline up there. Thanks for starting an informative thread!

 

[journo]

First off, why in the world would a US Military Base NOT be a Restricted Zone for flying our UAS? I mean look at the safety measures they have in place to keep John Q. Public from just walking in. Why would flying a drone over such an area be a good/allowed action?

Let's not forget that any land owner/manager has every right to restrict flight FROM their property. That sign could simply mean you are restricted from operating on/from their property (which you can't get to anyway).

What happens if you take off outside the property, fly over it, and happen to lose the aircraft inside the boundary?

FWIW I think that area should be a Restricted Flight Zone and it should be SOP that we can't fly UAS over Military Bases/Compounds etc.

I'm not sure if the signage just means a drone cannot be flown over and across the fencing, or also outside the fencing and near this installation. I can understand that no photos be taken, but what if someone wants to put a drone up near the base and photograph the other way? The actual restrictions seem vague unless the airspace is restricted.

 

[Dogpilot]

You can easily take your drone or aircraft up outside any restricted are and take pictures of what lies within. Just recently a private pilot who was on flight following with Nellis AFB, took extensive pictures of the base at Area 51, he was in legal airspace under AF control, so he violated no rules. He just had a very nice stabilized telephoto.

The military is quite aware of what is sensitive and either puts it under cover or inside a hanger to keep prying eyes (like satellites) from seeing what is going on. We even have a treaty, which is in peril, allow Russian aircraft to fly around our country, and we get to do the same in theirs.

Area 51 Pics

 

[BigAl07]

I'm not sure if the signage just means a drone cannot be flown over and across the fencing, or also outside the fencing and near this installation. I can understand that no photos be taken, but what if someone wants to put a drone up near the base and photograph the other way? The actual restrictions seem vague unless the airspace is restricted.

Did you get any clearer pictures of the sign? It would help to see the actual wording on the sign itself but it looks authentic and the base has every right to protect the base and perimeter area from prying eyes. It's not a PUBLIC entity and they are probably authorized to take extreme means to eliminate threats etc. I wouldn't fly outside of that perimeter even if I felt I had a "right" to.

A simple google search showed a fairly consistent use of that sign/logo at other US Military bases.

FWIW that's also the same type of sign/logo used on official FAA No Drone Zone signs.

 

[journo]

I didn't photograph the sign. Another sign said no photos and their cameras were on my car. Didn't want to provoke.

 

[journo]

I would think that all military installations should be NFZs for drones.

Remember, these images go back to China ?

Sorry, I couldn't resist

I've always kept the the cloud storage disabled for photos outside of the flash disc on the mini. Risky, I know, (lose the drone, lose the photos), but seemed prudent not to have images stored on some unknown server. And my phone is very old and doesn't have enough storage.

 

[dan.utinske]

I'm a 107 remote pilot and photojournalist working in Washington State. An interesting observation regarding a sign I noticed during a non-flight photo assignment in tiny Keyport WA unrelated to this Naval Base there (one of multiple restricted base areas in Kitsap County). I noticed a small sign with a drone in a circle and bar -- stating "Warning/Prohibited" -- at the entrance to the base (shown in Google map photo; drone signage is at right). I had never seen a government anti-drone sign before and was curious to know if the drone restriction matched 'unauthorized' airspace on an app or other FAA mapping site. It didn't. I checked KittyHawk and it did not show this airspace over Keyport as restricted. When I got home, I looked at Visualize It, and it also does not show Keyport as restricted airspace on its map (see attached; Keyport is the black dot). Other Department of Defense restricted areas are clearly seen in nearby blocked-out restricted airspace shown in color.

This is a general FYI. Be careful. The signage is very small and threatens prosecution. You'd have to drive right up to it to even see it. In this particular case, some resources we use to fly safe, including apps and maps, do not appear to match military base signage on the ground.

If you are anywhere near "Ohio" class subs you are in not only a restricted area/airspace but a "Shoot To Kill" zone. It is wise to stay about as far clear of the Naval installations in the PNW as possible. I have witness a sail boat who's captain failed to heed Navy Gunboats warnings when near the Naval Weapons Station in Bremerton and after the 3rd time being ignored, the crew uncovered it's forward weapons and said there would be no more warnings, they would shoot. He decided to give way and turn away from the base.

 

[dan.utinske]

If you are anywhere near "Ohio" class subs you are in not only a restricted area/airspace but a "Shoot To Kill" zone. It is wise to stay about as far clear of the Naval installations in the PNW as possible. I have witness a sail boat who's captain failed to heed Navy Gunboats warnings when near the Naval Weapons Station in Bremerton and after the 3rd time being ignored, the crew uncovered it's forward weapons and said there would be no more warnings, they would shoot. He decided to give way and turn away from the base.

FAA Regulations on Flying Drones on Military Bases​

Due to the following FAA regulations, you are not allowed to fly drones on military bases:

1. The FAA uses its authority under Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) § 99.7 – “Special Security Instructions” to restrict drone operations over 133 military facilities for national security concerns.
2. Drone flights are restricted up to 400 feet within the lateral boundaries of these facilities, with only a few exceptions that require coordination with the individual facility and/or the FAA.
3. Operators who violate the airspace restrictions may be subject to enforcement action, including potential civil penalties and criminal charges.
4. To ensure public awareness of these restricted locations, the FAA has created an interactive map online and included the link in their B4UFLY mobile app, which will be updated within 60 days to reflect these airspace restrictions.

 

[New England Droning]

I'm a 107 remote pilot and photojournalist working in Washington State. An interesting observation regarding a sign I noticed during a non-flight photo assignment in tiny Keyport WA unrelated to this Naval Base there (one of multiple restricted base areas in Kitsap County). I noticed a small sign with a drone in a circle and bar -- stating "Warning/Prohibited" -- at the entrance to the base (shown in Google map photo; drone signage is at right). I had never seen a government anti-drone sign before and was curious to know if the drone restriction matched 'unauthorized' airspace on an app or other FAA mapping site. It didn't. I checked KittyHawk and it did not show this airspace over Keyport as restricted. When I got home, I looked at Visualize It, and it also does not show Keyport as restricted airspace on its map (see attached; Keyport is the black dot). Other Department of Defense restricted areas are clearly seen in nearby blocked-out restricted airspace shown in color.

This is a general FYI. Be careful. The signage is very small and threatens prosecution. You'd have to drive right up to it to even see it. In this particular case, some resources we use to fly safe, including apps and maps, do not appear to match military base signage on the ground.

It should be logical that unless the base has been closed down and the buildings are mostly gone, that you should not fly over ANY military base. PERIOD... (I'm retired AF)
I would not be surprised if a missile takes out your drone and another leaves a smoking hole where you were standing... Okay, kidding there but military police have a lot of leeway to take you into custody and release you at some point in the future hours or days once they scrub the drone for all info you may have captured...

Needless to say, it is safer to just don't play around with military bases of ANY kind. They have their own rules they play by and while you have rights, National Security supersedes your personal rights, at least in the short term..

 

[journo]

I'm a 107 remote pilot and photojournalist working in Washington State. An interesting observation regarding a sign I noticed during a non-flight photo assignment in tiny Keyport WA unrelated to this Naval Base there (one of multiple restricted base areas in Kitsap County). I noticed a small sign with a drone in a circle and bar -- stating "Warning/Prohibited" -- at the entrance to the base (shown in Google map photo; drone signage is at right). I had never seen a government anti-drone sign before and was curious to know if the drone restriction matched 'unauthorized' airspace on an app or other FAA mapping site. It didn't. I checked KittyHawk and it did not show this airspace over Keyport as restricted. When I got home, I looked at Visualize It, and it also does not show Keyport as restricted airspace on its map (see attached; Keyport is the black dot). Other Department of Defense restricted areas are clearly seen in nearby blocked-out restricted airspace shown in color.

This is a general FYI. Be careful. The signage is very small and threatens prosecution. You'd have to drive right up to it to even see it. In this particular case, some resources we use to fly safe, including apps and maps, do not appear to match military base signage on the ground.

Thanks all. I posted this over two years ago and I can say now with certainty, the LAANC apps (of which there now seem fewer) have caught up with 'no-fly' red-out military areas on their maps. My original post wasn't worded very precisely. My question was about flying off to the side, or launching outside military bases --without having seen the entry gate sign/or seeing anything on an app map --and with the intent to photograph picturesque water areas away from the gates. I would never suggest that anyone would or should fly over a military installation, full stop, but in the case of subs, I'm sure they can be anywhere in PNW's waterways.

 

[New England Droning]

Thanks all. I posted this over two years ago and I can say now with certainty, the LAANC apps (of which there now seem fewer) have caught up with 'no-fly' red-out military areas on their maps. My original post wasn't worded very precisely. My question was about flying off to the side, or launching outside military bases --without having seen the entry gate sign/or seeing anything on an app map --and with the intent to photograph picturesque water areas away from the gates. I would never suggest that anyone would or should fly over a military installation, full stop, but in the case of subs, I'm sure they can be anywhere in PNW's waterways.

Sorry I didn't notice how aged the discussion was...