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GoPro Karma 2017 Reviewed.

Fwiw - karma was the fist ultra portable drone on the market. And it's a system for go pro users. It's purpose is completely different than the karma. It's meant to fit into an existing workflow. Is it simple - yes. In some places that makes it a more elegant solution. Not as much stuff to go wrong. It's also their first product - hopefully they are able to come out with a v2 or more! We need the competition.

If you look at the problems people are having with the mavic this might justify the simplicity. Mavic was rushed into production and by looking at all the issues, many are starting to worry that they made a $1300 mistake. The sensors are wonky, the app(s) is now in its 3rd iteration. The gps and compass are having a lot of issues,the gimbal is flimsy and the camera is a quality control nightmare.

My original point is that neither system is what we want it to be and the way the market is - I doubt we get that all in one, ultra portable, mega duration drone for a long time.


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1) First of all there are probably 100 Karma's flying right now. There are several thousand if not hundred thousand Mavics flying. If one Karma has a problem thats a 1% failure rate. If 100 Mavics have a problem it's probably a 0.1% failure rate.
I have not seen 100 posts that involved problems that the owner could not fix by re-calibration or realizing they had some setting wrong because they never read the manual.

2) Anyone who has a problem with a Mavic ends up on this forum bitching about it. Just take a look at most of the posts with complaints, it's typically from a guy who has 1-5 posts on the forum.

3) The Karma is not even close to the Mavic in terms of the technical ability or design. Can I fly the Karma up in the air and then concentrate on something else for a photo shoot and feel confident that the Karma is not descending to a crash?
With the Mavic I feel very comfortable even in fairly high wind that it will stay where I put it and not move.

4) GoPro was also built on the idea of portability. The Karma is not that portable the Mavic is very portable.

As for Crispbacon2000 remark that the iphonedo guy is working for DJI. That is a huge libelous accusation considering he just did a video panning the competitors product. Do you have any proof ?

I liked the video, I am not going to judge it based on the guys accent. If I can understand what he is saying I am happy and this guy is very easy to understand and very humerus. Sorry if the Karma lovers did not like the video, but I see no lies in what he said and even the "Drone Valley" guys seem to back him up because they really have nothing positive to say about the Karma except that I should buy one to support GoPro so they can make a Karma2. Hell no!
GoPro could have waited 6 more months and redesigned a better Karma but instead they wanted to keep all of the existing tech and put a Band aid on the Karma and just keep selling it without investing anymore cash in R&D.
 
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I think the Mavic is the all round best Drone on the market. It's not the best but it's the all round best.
Needless to say, I do not believe GoPro rushed the Karma to market like everyone is claiming. Look at the competition, for years we have had sofiticated mass produced drones with sensors galore. In 2014, GoPro entered into discussions with DJI for a private label model built with the GoPro branding. The negotiations fell apart and GoPro decided to build their own. It is far fetched to think that GoPro who was in negotiations with DJI decided to bring out a non sofiticated Drone and it was a mistake. Look how long the excellent DJI phantom series has been around. The phantom 2 was realesed in 2013 and has more features than the Karma. GoPro brought out exactly what they intended to. A simply, fly yourself Drone that is easy to fix yourself and will appeal to a very specific market.
So, they had a battery clip problem. They missed that in testing. So what, they did a hell of a job in recalling the product and giving everyone a free camera. Now really, I am supposed to believe that GoPro saw the Mavic Pro and just because the Mavic has tons of sensors and features they should have started from scratch and redesigned a Drone to compete with the Mavic? Read again what I wrote above. GoPro new exactly what they were doing because they were in negotiations with DJI.
There is nothing wrong with a no-frills car. There is also nothing wrong with a no-frills drone.
I have a small Drone without a single sensor and I love to fly it. IMHO, the Karma will be appealing to the GoPro community and that community runs in the millions. They only need a very small percentage of the GoPro community to purchase a Karma and they will be off and running. My own son ( an aircraft mechanic at Lufthansa airlines ) has in depth knowledge of my Mavic and yet he is considering buying the Karma because he has a complete set of go pro equipment. He is not interested in " follow me" or " gesture mode or any of the others features that the Mavic has. He thinks the Mavic is a phenomenal machine but it does not appeal to him.
In 12 months we may all be surprised.

Now I'm going upstairs to take my Mavic pro out of its case to look at that beautiful machine!
 
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There is nothing wrong with a no-frills car. There is also nothing wrong with a no-frills drone.

Great post and it would all be valid if it was not for the Fact that the No Frills car cost just as much as the car with a ton of features. If the Karma was $400 we would not be on the opposite sides of this argument. GoPro is out fitting a $370 camera on a drone that really should be sporting an $80 camera. The Karma is like one of those Lada's that I use to see as a kid when we traveled to third world countries. The owner would buy a $1500 Russian car and outfit it with $2000 worth of stereo equipment and $500 worth of leather seat covers.
 
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Great post and it would all be valid if it was not for the Fact that the No Frills car cost just as much as the car with a ton of features. If the Karma was $400 we would not be on the opposite sides of this argument. GoPro is out fitting a $370 camera on a drone that really should be sporting an $80 camera. The Karma is like one of those Lada's that I use to see as a kid when we traveled to third world countries. The owner would buy a $1500 Russian car and outfit it with $2000 worth of stereo equipment and $500 worth of leather seat covers.
Can you please explain what " just as much" means??? I just looked again and the Karma is $200 dollars less than the Mavic! But it's all good! If you feel the Karma is a piece of junk and GoPro made a mistake then no amount of facts are going to change your mind!
 
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Can you please explain what " just as much" means??? I just looked again and the Karma is $200 dollars less than the Mavic! But it's all good! If you feel the Karma is a piece of junk and GoPro made a mistake then no amount of facts are going to change your mind!

I am talking about this.
Amazon.com : GoPro Karma with HERO5 Black : Camera & Photo

I need the camera if the Karma is going to be doing the same job as the Mavic. So yes I have to include the Hero 5 in the price because the Hero 4 from what i understand is useless on the Karma due to the Horizon problem. Even if I did go with a Hero4 I would still be paying $1100 for a Karma versus $1000 for the Mavic.

Yes I know the Karma comes with a removable gimbal and the Hero 5 is "So much more than a Camera":D but I really do not need a removable gimbal. Honestly I don't think the Karma is junk, I just think it's overpriced and technologically a few years behind what GoPro needed right now.
 
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Karma "Co Pilot app" is maybe the only area that gives the Karma a leg up on the Mavic. In his video I get the feeling that it's more of a "support the Karma in the hopes that they bring competition later down the road". If I was a rich man or a Drone blogger I might do that.
I've been solving this with a long USB cable to a full size iPad held by the camera operator while the pilot flies by line of sight. Not a perfect solution but better for me than solo operating.

My first (and only) crash happened because I tried to activate tripod mode (which can only be done after takeoff) and the app distracted me long enough for the copter to saunter over and hit a wall.

I'm eager to see better copilot/dual operator control.
 
I am talking about this.
Amazon.com : GoPro Karma with HERO5 Black : Camera & Photo

I need the camera if the Karma is going to be doing the same job as the Mavic. So yes I have to include the Hero 5 in the price because the Hero 4 from what i understand is useless on the Karma due to the Horizon problem. Even if I did go with a Hero4 I would still be paying $1100 for a Karma versus $1000 for the Mavic.

Yes I know the Karma comes with a removable gimbal and the Hero 5 is "So much more than a Camera":D but I really do not need a removable gimbal. Honestly I don't think the Karma is junk, I just think it's overpriced and technologically a few years behind what GoPro needed right now.
Ok, I understand. I am looking at it from the perspective of GoPro customers buying it without the camera. The Mavic & Gopro should not be compaired together( IMHO ). They may have set the price point ( $799 ) a little hi but one thing to consider is GoPro products go on sale quite often. I'm not sure if we will ever see price drop on the Mavic. Think of Apple products, the price is the price. 2 weeks from now you might see the Karma for $529 direct from GoPro because it's some sort of holiday. I interested in seeing where this leads.

Safe & Fun flying!
 
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Ok, I understand. I am looking at it from the perspective of GoPro customers buying it without the camera. The Mavic & Gopro should not be compaired together( IMHO ). They may have set the price point ( $799 ) a little hi but one thing to consider is GoPro products go on sale quite often. I'm not sure if we will ever see price drop on the Mavic. Think of Apple products, the price is the price. 2 weeks from now you might see the Karma for $529 direct from GoPro because it's some sort of holiday. I interested in seeing where this leads.

Safe & Fun flying!


For 529$ I'd buy one just for S's and G's.
 
It's definitely a GoPro ecosystem buy. For $400 many places you can get the phantom 3 standard with a great camera (and no fish eye) (I know the arms don't fold) and in many ways it is still better than, and certainly not worse than the karma. karma is just way over priced coming from this point of view. But that is why we have an competitive market. If the current price tag is too high, they will have to discount it to hit the sales numbers they want / need or make other decisions on its future. Looking forward to the competition.


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It's definitely a GoPro ecosystem buy. For $400 many places you can get the phantom 3 standard with a great camera (and no fish eye) (I know the arms don't fold) and in many ways it is still better than, and certainly not worse than the karma. karma is just way over priced coming from this point of view. But that is why we have an competitive market. If the current price tag is too high, they will have to discount it to hit the sales numbers they want / need or make other decisions on its future. Looking forward to the competition.


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Well said!
 
The karma is a complete system complete with a gimbal and drone. You can only do that with the inspire and that setup will cost you a LOT more.

I'm not taking up for either - I have GoPro's and I love them. I also have 2 phantoms (a 1 and a 3). I also have a yuneek typhoon and a racing quad i built myself. They are all good in their own right and each have a purpose. And that's all I was saying about the Karma. I wouldn't say it's junk simply because it doesn't meet your needs or doesn't have all the bells and whistles. It actually did usher in the era of ultra portable drones. And it's doing something else dji can't or won't do. And that is provide replacement parts so you can fix the thing yourself.




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The mavic and karma are both beta platforms - neither are ready for prime time. [/QUOTE said:
Ridiculous statement. I can't speak to the Karma, though the review is a total takedown of GoPro's core technology, but the Mavic is the most solid tech I've ever had the privilege to experience. It is more than ready for prime time.


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The karma is a complete system complete with a gimbal and drone. You can only do that with the inspire and that setup will cost you a LOT more.

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And there in lies the problem. Most people just want a nice drone and don't really care about a removable gimbal. Yes they would love if the Mavic had a removable gimbal but they would not sacrifice the portability or the features for it. Karma is marketed for a very niche market that is actually a subset of their own user base and the crazy part is that most of those GoPro owners would still buy a Mavic over the Karma.
 
Just thinking... there's more discussion of the Karma right here than there appears to be on GoProPilots.com. Kinda funny, that.
 
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That dude is the BORAT of the drone world.... he irritates me and cracks me up at the same time.... hahaha, good review though.

Sorry to say GoPro is gonna continue to take a loss on this one...

 
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The karma is a complete system complete with a gimbal and drone. You can only do that with the inspire and that setup will cost you a LOT more.

I'm not taking up for either - I have GoPro's and I love them. I also have 2 phantoms (a 1 and a 3). I also have a yuneek typhoon and a racing quad i built myself. They are all good in their own right and each have a purpose. And that's all I was saying about the Karma. I wouldn't say it's junk simply because it doesn't meet your needs or doesn't have all the bells and whistles. It actually did usher in the era of ultra portable drones. And it's doing something else dji can't or won't do. And that is provide replacement parts so you can fix the thing yourself.

I certainly liked the idea of the Karma which despite the constant comparisons to the Mavic, I thought was a completely different drone going for a different market. I have a load of action cameras I use on bikes and similar but was planning a GoPro5 Black and I thought the Karma stabiliser looked great for use with the bike - with the stabiliser at just under £300 and the GoPro 5 at £350 it made the Karma a much cheaper drone than the Mavic and at worst if I didn't end up using the drone much or wrecked it, I'd still have the stabiliser and camera. Longer term I also liked the idea of upgrading the chassis without having to buy the stabiliser and camera each time. In the UK they were initially offering a two year accidental warranty for free with the GoPro5 which was appealing and the drone seemed well designed to be easily repairable which was also appealing and GoPro's CS seem better. The integrated controller was also appealing as I don't know if issues I'm having with an Android device and my controller are Android issues that IOS is better at or just general issues.

However the moment I saw problems with the drone that killed my interest in it, I didn't mind them going for a more basic drone to get started but it's frustrating they couldn't even seem to get that right. I bought a GoPro3 Black on launch on the back of many glowing reviews and it was a beta product that was unreliable with poor batterylife, it's bad enough dealing with issues like that on an action camera but a whole lot worse on a drone. I'm surprised they're not offering any incentives with the relaunched Karma which still isn't for sale here but have my Mavic now so that's out the window. Still toying with the stabiliser although it's irritating it doesn't work with a GoPro4 Session when it does the other 4's, I've since bought a Yi 4k camera so not that bothered about getting a GoPro5.

John
 
I have a load of action cameras I use on bikes and similar but was planning a GoPro5 Black and I thought the Karma stabiliser looked great for use with the bike - with the stabiliser at just under £300 and the GoPro 5 at £350

For a bike I find this type of gimbal way too cumbersome, they only thing I think it is good for is a hand held... if you want to mount on your bike, your chest/body (which is what i prefer) or wherever else you need a smaller gimbal, like the wearable Feiyu Tech... I got mine HERE on Amazon.... results are good. I do not mind at all that I have a gimbal for my GoPro's and a separate (Mavic and P4P) for aerial... I want my equipment to be specific to the task at hand, I find it works best for me anyway>

Here is an example of the stand alone Feiyu gimbal with a GP4 - a bit of exposure at the 6:55 mark :eek: :

 
The Karma gimbal can mount on a backpack strap out of the way or there's an extension cable coming out to move it out of the way. The riding in your video doesn't really show anything that benefits from a gimbal so it gives no indication the gimbal works that well, the Karma was designed for both the drone and action activities - its performance is absolutely superb on rough stuff:


John
 
I think what is being missed here is the business end of GO Pro. They lost a huge market when DJI decided they will go a different way with the optics platform. So they decided to make something that they can stick the GO Pro in. The drone is an after thought, which is why every aspect of "good features" (which is relative) with the karma are camera functionalities.
 
IMHO, the Karma is suitable only for those who will only fly occasionally and are already invested in the GoPro platform.

And - I have to say it - I love that reviewer... He cracks me up.

"...Makes it the SECOND worst drone I have ever flown..". I was dying...
 
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