Have you done your advanced flight review?

[drone111]

The attached file is the a best practices from the BC area it is a little dated and yet still provides great insight into what the expectation is for UAV pilots around controlled airspace. You will need to know this stuff when you take the flight review. Some of the requirements of the flight review is a good understanding of airspace, due to the privilege you are accorded when you pass.

Thanks. The more info people have the better.

According to TC guidelines, if you fail any "one" area of the test, you fail the whole test. One of the area's is to demonstrate your knowledge. This is subjective. Hearing from multiple people who have all attempted flight reviews at different schools nobody is passing. The general feedback I hear is that the person doing the flight review is on their "high horse" basically trying to trip you up to fail you. They get a fee (which you have to pay) of 200 to 400 to do a flight review, and if you fail, you would have to pay them again.

It is to their best interest to fail people. The whole flight review is a mess. Transport Canada needs to get on this quick.

Has ANYONE... ANYONE passed this flight review? Because the people who are giving the flight reviews were "given" that status by TC.. they didn't even have to go through it themselves.

 

[drone111]

I passed the Advanced. Taking my flight review around the end of March.

WHo did you do your flight review with and how did it go?

 

[Cariboo Drone]

Thanks. The more info people have the better.

According to TC guidelines, if you fail any "one" area of the test, you fail the whole test. One of the area's is to demonstrate your knowledge. This is subjective. Hearing from multiple people who have all attempted flight reviews at different schools nobody is passing. The general feedback I hear is that the person doing the flight review is on their "high horse" basically trying to trip you up to fail you. They get a fee (which you have to pay) of 200 to 400 to do a flight review, and if you fail, you would have to pay them again.

It is to their best interest to fail people. The whole flight review is a mess. Transport Canada needs to get on this quick.

Has ANYONE... ANYONE passed this flight review? Because the people who are giving the flight reviews were "given" that status by TC.. they didn't even have to go through it themselves.

I have not taken the flight review yet, the info provided was given to me by a BC Company that does commercial work with multiple locations. They also provide flight reviews and are starting a ground school. They were very helpful, providing that document, a full set of the TC regs, and some proprietary documents. I do not have permission to provide their data, and the TC regs are the everywhere you look.

My comment would have to be they have gone out of their way to ensure I don't book the flight review and then fail. Good on them, and if they were 'given' the privilege of flight reviewer status, it may have to do with the thousands of missions they have flown in very dynamic conditions including restricted air (regularly) and always with an approved SFOC. Please don't dump everyone into the same class, there area MANY great companies that provide the service. If you are in BC then send me a message and I will give you the name and contact info. Cheers!

 

[drone111]

I have not taken the flight review yet, the info provided was given to me by a BC Company that does commercial work with multiple locations. They also provide flight reviews and are starting a ground school. They were very helpful, providing that document, a full set of the TC regs, and some proprietary documents. I do not have permission to provide their data, and the TC regs are the everywhere you look.

My comment would have to be they have gone out of their way to ensure I don't book the flight review and then fail. Good on them, and if they were 'given' the privilege of flight reviewer status, it may have to do with the thousands of missions they have flown in very dynamic conditions including restricted air (regularly) and always with an approved SFOC. Please don't dump everyone into the same class, there area MANY great companies that provide the service. If you are in BC then send me a message and I will give you the name and contact info. Cheers!

No offence but this sounds like an ad and a commercial.. maybe your own company? just saying.. someone that has their commercial license, who has done SFOC's before and has done site surveys' should NOT be forced to take a course in order to get the instructor to give them a pass. Cash Grab.

 

[Tbredhed]

So by your logic because I was driving from the time I was 14 getting my learners permit and then taking my drivers test was also a cash grab?

Didn't sound like an ad to me sounded like he had a good experience with this company and wanted to let others know there were good companies out there as well as bad.

No offence but this sounds like an ad and a commercial.. maybe your own company? just saying.. someone that has their commercial license, who has done SFOC's before and has done site surveys' should NOT be forced to take a course in order to get the instructor to give them a pass. Cash Grab.

 

[Cariboo Drone]

Ya know drone111, I don't take offence at your comment, if I were in the flight review business, you should be able to find me...just sayin!
People are here for help, generally speaking, and to be part of a larger community. And I am not promoting a course for you. I invested several hundred dollars over the last couple years in online training, and have no issue with paying a company to provide the flight review I will need to be compliant with the new TC Regs. I offered the info to you IF you wanted to find a company who is fair and not interested in failing you in order to make more money off you.

This is a complex issue, there are many people who are struggling to pass the advanced test at TC or the flight review. Specifically, the reviewer I spend 15 minutes on phone with (his dime, returning a call after hours) said they are seeing more people failing the TC exam than the flight review. As a ground school, they provide the baseline training for SFOC knowledge and some hands on flight time with a drone. They will also help with completing SFOC applications. I expect, like any successful business, they will be adapting to the new requirements as we all are. You imply you have SFOC experience so you would not need anybody for that.

I know several people who have been through drone flight school training previous to the new TC Regs. and they are struggling to pass the TC exam. As far is the flight review goes, if I invest a few hundred dollars in the flight school, I would expect to come out with the flight review completed. If I need to take the flight review to have the licensing I want, it is my own responsibility to be fully aware of the requirements and expectations of said license, kinda like a drivers license for your car, or highway tractor/trailer configuration.

You mentioned a commercial license, (business license, PPL, I'm not sure what you mean) and having done SFOC's and site surveys, so I expect you have the commercial liability insurance also, why not continue to do the same, I never suggested you need a course. Has the SFOC process been discontinued? The new TC Regs are to provide easier process and access for more people who can operate within the scope of the various levels of 'permission' available. I, for one, will still need SFOC for many aspects of what I do.

 

[Bruce D]

Thanks. The more info people have the better.

According to TC guidelines, if you fail any "one" area of the test, you fail the whole test. One of the area's is to demonstrate your knowledge. This is subjective. Hearing from multiple people who have all attempted flight reviews at different schools nobody is passing. The general feedback I hear is that the person doing the flight review is on their "high horse" basically trying to trip you up to fail you. They get a fee (which you have to pay) of 200 to 400 to do a flight review, and if you fail, you would have to pay them again.

It is to their best interest to fail people. The whole flight review is a mess. Transport Canada needs to get on this quick.

Has ANYONE... ANYONE passed this flight review? Because the people who are giving the flight reviews were "given" that status by TC.. they didn't even have to go through it themselves.

WHo did you do your flight review with and how did it go?

I took ALL my courses through Coastal Drone in Surrey. Very good courses and I would recommend this company to anyone. I would never have passed my written and flight tests without taking these courses. They also did my flight test. I found that I was not tripped up and the 'testing' was very thorough, fair, and helpful.

I agree, it is very possible that other "Examiners" could be intentionally trying to trip people up as there is an enormous opportunity for them to turn the event into a personal cash cow. There is a major potential financial conflict of interest with "Examiners" in the way this whole thing has been set up by Transport Canada. There is a financial dis-incentive to keep the numbers of Drone Pilots down in order to protect 'Examiners' personal flying business.

If anyone is wanting to get their flight text done, I recommend making a trip and driving to Surrey and have it done by Coastal Drone. Coastal Drone will also travel to any area in BC if the numbers of applicants are sufficient to warrant a road trip. I found Coastal Drone to be fair, honest, and highly ethical.

 

[drone111]

Ya know drone111, I don't take offence at your comment, if I were in the flight review business, you should be able to find me...just sayin!
People are here for help, generally speaking, and to be part of a larger community. And I am not promoting a course for you. I invested several hundred dollars over the last couple years in online training, and have no issue with paying a company to provide the flight review I will need to be compliant with the new TC Regs. I offered the info to you IF you wanted to find a company who is fair and not interested in failing you in order to make more money off you.

This is a complex issue, there are many people who are struggling to pass the advanced test at TC or the flight review. Specifically, the reviewer I spend 15 minutes on phone with (his dime, returning a call after hours) said they are seeing more people failing the TC exam than the flight review. As a ground school, they provide the baseline training for SFOC knowledge and some hands on flight time with a drone. They will also help with completing SFOC applications. I expect, like any successful business, they will be adapting to the new requirements as we all are. You imply you have SFOC experience so you would not need anybody for that.

I know several people who have been through drone flight school training previous to the new TC Regs. and they are struggling to pass the TC exam. As far is the flight review goes, if I invest a few hundred dollars in the flight school, I would expect to come out with the flight review completed. If I need to take the flight review to have the licensing I want, it is my own responsibility to be fully aware of the requirements and expectations of said license, kinda like a drivers license for your car, or highway tractor/trailer configuration.

You mentioned a commercial license, (business license, PPL, I'm not sure what you mean) and having done SFOC's and site surveys, so I expect you have the commercial liability insurance also, why not continue to do the same, I never suggested you need a course. Has the SFOC process been discontinued? The new TC Regs are to provide easier process and access for more people who can operate within the scope of the various levels of 'permission' available. I, for one, will still need SFOC for many aspects of what I do.

The whole process is completely screwed up. I've already passed the advanced test, this is strictly about the flight review process. For instance (and these won't be things you can debate) ...

1) There is no standard in pricing for the flight review. Some people will pay $500, others will pay $200 - if the flight review is the same for everyone, the cost should be the same and dictated by the government.

2) There are not enough flight reviewers. Let's say you were going to be using a drone to do work for construction company's. Everyone doing the drone reviews does commercial work like this - so by them approving your license, they are giving you a license to be a local competitor. I can't imagine living in Ontario and having to get your flight review done by someone in BC just because they are not your competition.

3) The exam is NOT consistent. TC says if you fail 1 section, you fail it all. One of those sections is to demonstrate knowledge. There are flight reviewers out there that try to ask tricky / subjective questions just to try to trip you up, as if they have an ego, and that leads you to fail the exam. These questions should be standard to any flight reviewer where they pick out 5 out of a bunch.

4) After they trip you up on these questions they point to their own flight prep course. Which is just crazy because i've taken them before via other companies, already put out the money but they point to theirs being better. Then you have to pay for a 2nd flight review... so it looks like this.... $400 flight review, $600 course, $400 flight review... it's just pathetic.

5) ALL of the people doing the flight reviews have NEVER DONE ONE THEMSELVES ... that's right, TC has given them the ability to perform them because of their past relationship. Phone the RPAS task force, you'll get a lot of info that will just shock you.

Yes, if someone wants it bad enough because they need it for their business, they will shell out the 5k or whatever it takes to get it done. What i'm saying, is that approach is horrible and its a complete mess the way TC has set this up.

Hopefully this has raised the eyebrows of some.

 

[Tbredhed]

Drone111, while I certainly agree with the majority of what you said above, what are you doing about it other than complaining.

If you are truly upset about this what you should be doing here is organizing people and getting them to document everything and present it to TC to show the inappropriate behaviour of the company's that they have chosen for the flight reviews.

Cheers

 

[drone111]

Drone111, while I certainly agree with the majority of what you said above, what are you doing about it other than complaining.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that this wasn't asked in a negative tone. I've tried to relay my thoughts and comments to transport canada but feels like its not being heard. If you want your chance to be heard you can contact the person in your area: Organizational Chart - Transport Canada

 

[Tbredhed]

While I will admit to a bit of a negative connotation, I am also trying to get something organized.

I do think that the new regulations were pushed out hastily and we as RPAS pilots must share some of the responsibility for this. The media is quick to jump all over the few irresponsible pilots out there and forced the government to act quickly, and we all know what happens when government moves quickly.

If you truly want to try to change the advanced certification process you will need to provide them with some kind of documentation. Simply calling and stating your displeasure will do nothing except get you labelled, rightly or wrongly, as a malcontent.

Have you looked into your local college for the advanced certification, the college here is starting a course. The one here is starting something, but they also have an accredited flight school.

Personally I decided shortly after the regulations were put forward that I didn't have any interest in flying in controlled airspace, but I do hope that situations like yours do get resolved and the less than scrupulous drone school operators are decertified.
Cheers

 

[drone111]

You mentioned a commercial license, (business license, PPL, I'm not sure what you mean) and having done SFOC's and site surveys, so I expect you have the commercial liability insurance also, why not continue to do the same, I never suggested you need a course. Has the SFOC process been discontinued? The new TC Regs are to provide easier process and access for more people who can operate within the scope of the various levels of 'permission' available. I, for one, will still need SFOC for many aspects of what I do.

From what I have read, the license is still needed that you can not get by with the SFOC alone. The problem with the SFOC is how long it takes to get approved and I'm sure every territory is different. So this would mean still needing the advanced license which i'm 99.999% sure you need anyways. The idea has always been to stop the SFOC's in the volume they have been due to TC getting flooded with them. So sadly it seems like not holding the advanced certificate is not an option, we all have to go through it.

Clearly i'm not the only one annoyed or that sees a huge conflict of interest. Seems like i'm going to have to shell out the 2k in courses and flight reviews just to get as pass. And the "standard" of flight reviewers are not there. I could share horror stories that would just mortify you of why people are failing and you would be like "WHAT?! NO WAY" ... these companies make more and more money ,the more you redo it and take their courses.

Sad.

 

[drone111]

There is a major potential financial conflict of interest with "Examiners" in the way this whole thing has been set up by Transport Canada. There is a financial dis-incentive to keep the numbers of Drone Pilots down in order to protect 'Examiners' personal flying business.

I'm not surprised that others are seeing this too. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Cariboo Drone]

The whole process is completely screwed up. I've already passed the advanced test, this is strictly about the flight review process. For instance (and these won't be things you can debate) ...

1) There is no standard in pricing for the flight review. Some people will pay $500, others will pay $200 - if the flight review is the same for everyone, the cost should be the same and dictated by the government.

2) There are not enough flight reviewers. Let's say you were going to be using a drone to do work for construction company's. Everyone doing the drone reviews does commercial work like this - so by them approving your license, they are giving you a license to be a local competitor. I can't imagine living in Ontario and having to get your flight review done by someone in BC just because they are not your competition.

3) The exam is NOT consistent. TC says if you fail 1 section, you fail it all. One of those sections is to demonstrate knowledge. There are flight reviewers out there that try to ask tricky / subjective questions just to try to trip you up, as if they have an ego, and that leads you to fail the exam. These questions should be standard to any flight reviewer where they pick out 5 out of a bunch.

4) After they trip you up on these questions they point to their own flight prep course. Which is just crazy because I've taken them before via other companies, already put out the money but they point to theirs being better. Then you have to pay for a 2nd flight review... so it looks like this.... $400 flight review, $600 course, $400 flight review... it's just pathetic.

5) ALL of the people doing the flight reviews have NEVER DONE ONE THEMSELVES ... that's right, TC has given them the ability to perform them because of their past relationship. Phone the RPAS task force, you'll get a lot of info that will just shock you.

Yes, if someone wants it bad enough because they need it for their business, they will shell out the 5k or whatever it takes to get it done. What i'm saying, is that approach is horrible and its a complete mess the way TC has set this up.

Hopefully this has raised the eyebrows of some.

Drone111
I agree on so much of what you are saying;
Questions should be selected from a group in the same fashion as the TC exam.

I did notice there is an option to take the reviewers test after successful advanced parts. This will provide for more reviewers, and business opportunity for some people. Unfortunately it seems that greed is in this industry like many others.

I am OK with the start point for reviewers, who in TC would be able to baseline flight review? My trusting nature believes TC would select based on existing experience, evidenced by SFOC records and a desire to pursue this opportunity.
The document I attached earlier hopes to address some of the issues faced from an aviation perspective. I had opportunity to attend a Kamloops review/update task force meeting but was unable to attend. I wish there was a video link available.
In the end, when we look back in 5 years, let's hope the first 6 months is the worst thing 6 months.

 

[Cariboo Drone]

From what I have read, the license is still needed that you can not get by with the SFOC alone. The problem with the SFOC is how long it takes to get approved and I'm sure every territory is different. So this would mean still needing the advanced license which i'm 99.999% sure you need anyways. The idea has always been to stop the SFOC's in the volume they have been due to TC getting flooded with them. So sadly it seems like not holding the advanced certificate is not an option, we all have to go through it.

Clearly i'm not the only one annoyed or that sees a huge conflict of interest. Seems like i'm going to have to shell out the 2k in courses and flight reviews just to get as pass. And the "standard" of flight reviewers are not there. I could share horror stories that would just mortify you of why people are failing and you would be like "WHAT?! NO WAY" ... these companies make more and more money ,the more you redo it and take their courses.

Sad.

Yes, it's like the pot industry, everyone trying to make their millions and corner the market. I can see where it would be advantageous for everyone who passes the flight review to get reviewed exam done when enabled and join the melee. FYI the company I spoke with charges 200 for the review.

 

[drone111]

Drone111
I did notice there is an option to take the reviewers test after successful advanced parts. This will provide for more reviewers, and business opportunity for some people. Unfortunately it seems that greed is in this industry like many others.

This is a direct quote from Transport Canada: "the flight reviewer onboarding process for new training provider entrants is currently closed. "

So were stuck with the current reviewers that are there... less competition for reviews and they will only up their prices. And the worst part is Transport Canada is creating this market by not allowing more flight reviewers.

 

[Cariboo Drone]

My gut instinct is after a the flight review and wait time I would take the exam anyways for the 10fee. When it does loosen up. It's good to have decent folks ready to roll forward.

 

[drone111]

not sure if you were saying you would do the flight review before the exam, but you have to do them in a certain order, exam first and then the flight review. can't do your flight review without a passing exam.

 

[Cariboo Drone]

not sure if you were saying you would do the flight review before the exam, but you have to do them in a certain order, exam first and then the flight review. can't do your flight review without a passing exam.

Hi drone 111,
I already have the advanced test done, just trying to get a free day to do the flight review. after the 6 month waiting period I will do the reviewers exam in case there is any more openings there. We need to have some folks who are in support of the hobby/business and not so concerned with filling their own pockets by having people repeat tests...

 

[drone111]

Hi drone 111,
I already have the advanced test done, just trying to get a free day to do the flight review. after the 6 month waiting period I will do the reviewers exam in case there is any more openings there. We need to have some folks who are in support of the hobby/business and not so concerned with filling their own pockets by having people repeat tests...

that would be nice, too bad TC isn't letting new reviewers in ... makes me wonder if they are going to scrap that whole part of it?