Hospital Helipads

[MavicFlyer]

My experience with calling hospitals with helipads has been that it's a waste of time; nobody answers, nobody calls back in response to a message you leave, or the person who answers is clueless...even calling security at the hospital was worthless...the best I could get was someone from facilities who was responsible for snow removal from the pad. The numbers provided as contacts in the airfield directory, usually (in my experience) are unanswered.

One time, I actually got a call back from a pilot who flew for the organization running the heliport. It was a pleasure to talk with someone who knew what I was talking about. He told me how they operate (approach paths/altitudes) and that I didn't have to call every time. He said that if they see me from the helo, they will go around, and if I see them he suggested that I land. He didn't expect a problem, because they want to gain altitude as quickly as possible for noise abatement (most a/c operating there are S-76), so they don't spend much time at UAV altitudes (<400 ft). Bottom line is that we don't even have a potential for conflict, unless I fly very close to the helipad (like < 1 mile), which I had no intention of doing.

Getting rid of that 5 mile requirement was a huge step in the right direction.

 

[7KJT7Y2I]

If only it were as easy as

As a suggestion: medevac flights are either conducted by private contractors or police or fire entities (or both depending on location). Try and locate the medevac provider and call their operations center. If your looking at flights on a tracker, searching the N number of the helo should get you to the company that owns and operates them. Their ops center would likely appreciate the heads up and ask for a contact# to advise you of any activity inbound to the hospital. Re: the police, this is a great opportunity to make connections there and do the same thing; calling the non emergency# of your communications center or 911 PSAP will get you the ability to have someone from aviation call you back.

Your doing the right stuff, wish more people would also. Even a lightweight uas versus a rotorcraft can result in a bad day. Did a medevac accident scene landing a few years ago and as the aircraft was on final saw RC aircraft nearby...not good. Helo had to abort and go around delaying transport, fortunately no contact occurred.

 

[7KJT7Y2I]

I'm less than a quarter mile from a hospital. When my drone was new 11 months ago I called and was politely told that there were no incoming flights at that moment. Left my phone #. Since then the rules have changed and I'm able to fly in my yard at will (no calling). I can't imagine not being able to hear the chopper a long way off (think Radar on the TV show MASH).

You'd be surprised how loud urban environments can get, and how reckless medevac and police helicopter pilots can be. It shouldn't, but it happens. I've experienced it firsthand. Also -- In the real world, buildings obstruct and deflect sound. Nearby aircraft can mask the sound of other aircraft. Ideally, yes, you can stay safe and hear an aircraft from miles away. But I could spend all day outlining ways in which you might reasonably not be able to hear a chapter from a long way off. This is irrelevant, anyway: This thinking isn't for the times when everything is predictable and cozy: They're for the times when things are completely sideways. This is precisely the reason why I want to go out of my way to increase safety on this particular thing. All the planning in the world on my part can't prepare me for every possible scenario. All I can do is put my head down, stay cool, and go with my checklist. So anything I can do on the ground to improve my safety and situational awareness is something that's well worth anyones time.

 

[7KJT7Y2I]

My experience with calling hospitals with helipads has been that it's a waste of time; nobody answers, nobody calls back in response to a message you leave, or the person who answers is clueless...even calling security at the hospital was worthless...the best I could get was someone from facilities who was responsible for snow removal from the pad. The numbers provided as contacts in the airfield directory, usually (in my experience) are unanswered.

One time, I actually got a call back from a pilot who flew for the organization running the heliport. It was a pleasure to talk with someone who knew what I was talking about. He told me how they operate (approach paths/altitudes) and that I didn't have to call every time. He said that if they see me from the helo, they will go around, and if I see them he suggested that I land. He didn't expect a problem, because they want to gain altitude as quickly as possible for noise abatement (most a/c operating there are S-76), so they don't spend much time at UAV altitudes (<400 ft). Bottom line is that we don't even have a potential for conflict, unless I fly very close to the helipad (like < 1 mile), which I had no intention of doing.

Getting rid of that 5 mile requirement was a huge step in the right direction.

That's great that you were able to reach them! That kind of communication is what we need more of. And ultimately, my primary argument is that there needs to be a protocol of some sort for helipad operators to safely interface with UAS pilots. It will become increasingly important. So please, if anyone at FAA is reading this, we badly need a deconfliction system, or at least framework for reducing UAS-helo conflicts.

You're not factoring in one major issue: Helicopter pilots who fly recklessly. It happens. But maximizing safety isn't about what should or shouldn't happen. It's about what IS happening. And the reality is that it's not uncommon for helicopter pilots to fly at extremely dangerous altitudes and speeds. I've witnessed it in person. Multiple times, with multiple agencies. Police, medieval, too. We need every strategy available to prevent collisions, and it's great that you got that dialogue going!

 

[MavicFlyer]

You're not factoring in one major issue: Helicopter pilots who fly recklessly. It happens. But maximizing safety isn't about what should or shouldn't happen. It's about what IS happening. And the reality is that it's not uncommon for helicopter pilots to fly at extremely dangerous altitudes and speeds. I've witnessed it in person. Multiple times, with multiple agencies. Police, medieval, too. We need every strategy available to prevent collisions, and it's great that you got that dialogue going!

Reckless pilots of both fixed wing and rotary wing are a reality, but fortunately, their numbers are low...there are bold pilots, and old pilots, but not too many old, bold, pilots. One incident that immediately comes to mind is the PA State Police who used a helicopter to disperse a crowd at a Penn State outdoor event. He came a lot closer than 500 ft from people on the ground, and caused canopies and umbrellas to go flying across the field. Nobody was killed, but there certainly were injuries and plenty of property damage. Never did hear about the consequences of that incident.

In fairness, I believe that helicopter pilots sometimes get a bad rap because some things that they do are perceived by the general public as reckless, when really they are not. Just because they are low doesn't mean that they are not safe; you'd have to look objectively at specific cases to determine if the helo was flown recklessly.

On a related topic, ADS-B equipment on the overwhelming majority of fixed and rotary wing aircraft are going to be big factor in improving situational awaremess, and reduced chance of collision. FWIW, I oppose most of the FAA's proposed rules on Remote ID. If helos all are putting out ADS-B , drone operators should be able to get receivers that will alert them if a helo is in the area. Larger drones like the kind Amazon would use for deliveries need to be treated as any manned aircraft.

 

[7KJT7Y2I]

I'm talking about an objective look in specific cases. Here's a great one: Police helicopter pilot turning off nav lights and anti-collision lights -- totally lights-out -- only 3 miles from a major international airport, in order to get pics of a large fireworks display. Newport Beach PD has a terrible reputation for risky flying, to name just one.

My point is just that it happens. I don't care about wether or not a reputation is warranted -- I'm simply talking about an undeniable reality: Pilots often fly recklessly. The only reason I'm talking about helicopters is because that's the primary threat for UAS.

 

[7KJT7Y2I]

Thanks for the info - that helps a lot to know how they work

When going through the notification process, I was once transferred to the trauma room at a hospital and got into an argument with a nurse who ccused me of wasting their time... despite the fact that I never asked for my call to be transferred there ?

Most hospitals have no control over helicopters other than allowing them to land. The pilots of each aircraft are responsible for coordinating with each other if there is more than one in the area. I was responsible for relocation of a helipad at a hospital I worked at in Missouri in the 90's. The engineering department would station an employee with a wheeled extinguisher there for take offs and landings but mostly the communication was between the ER and the medical team on the aircraft. FAA, FEMA, and a few independent air ambulance outfits were the ones I dealt with.

 

[MavicFlyer]

I'm talking about an objective look in specific cases. Here's a great one: Police helicopter pilot turning off nav lights and anti-collision lights -- totally lights-out -- only 3 miles from a major international airport, in order to get pics of a large fireworks display. Newport Beach PD has a terrible reputation for risky flying, to name just one.

That sounds like very irresponsible behavior, that should have been reported, investigated, and proper discipline handed to the pilot.

 

[7KJT7Y2I]

I would think, if you were to speak with the air crews directly - - they would be overly happy to sit down with you since after all... it is more so involving their personal safety.
There are no restrictions in writing any longer - - many on this forum always revert to you should use "common sense"
The problem with that is if a person has no previous knowledge / education - then the term common sense does not apply
( how should I be expected to know better if I had no clue I was doing wrong )

Common sense tells us to not put your hand on a hot stove - yet young children do it all the time ( one time only )
>>> my point <<<

I personally am a little upset with some of the [Admin Removed] posts in this thread.
It's real simple to tell someone sarcastically to simply don't fly but makes me wonder - -
if they actually lived between two hospitals - - - wonder if they would travel 5 or 10 miles to make a quick flight when technically, it is not illegal to do so.

Cheers my friend
Thanks much for putting safety first
We need more folks like you !

Thanks for the advice!

I just re-tested for my 107, and the entire time I was reading about ADM (aeronautical decision making), I was thinking about this thread, and how ridiculous and just plain stupid some of the responses have been. I see what you mean about going any further.

This whole discussion just reinforces the fact that the FAA needs to develop some kind of safety protocol for hospitals and drone operators. Of course, common sense things like using your ears and ADSB will be at the top of the list. But there needs to be a systematic way in which hospitals interface with

That sounds like very irresponsible behavior, that should have been reported, investigated, and proper discipline handed to the pilot.

That sounds like very irresponsible behavior, that should have been reported, investigated, and proper discipline handed to the pilot.

Next time I'll use the NASA-administered reporting system (which I wasn't aware of at the time). The local FSDO didn't even return my call. I guess that's why NASA handles it ?

 

[Ranger]

This whole discussion just reinforces the fact that the FAA needs to develop some kind of safety protocol for hospitals and drone operators.

I now agree with this, and thank you for your earlier comments about hearing choppers when things go 'sideways'. My comment was short-sighted. When the FAA changed things to say just fly in G airspace, I took it to mean they were putting more trust in drone operators (and requiring knowledge test for all). I now think they went too far, and could use a better system here.

 

[7KJT7Y2I]

I now agree with this, and thank you for your earlier comments about hearing choppers when things go 'sideways'. My comment was short-sighted. When the FAA changed things to say just fly in G airspace, I took it to mean they were putting more trust in drone operators (and requiring knowledge test for all). I now think they went too far, and could use a better system here.

I completely agree. The pendulum swung too far the other way without a new safety system to fill that gap

While we're at it, I hope that ALL med helicopter crews have access to LAANC data. So they can see themselves if any drones are active in their flight paths or near hospitals. They need to at least have access to it

 

[7KJT7Y2I]

No law ever said you can’t fly within 5 miles you just had to notify them of operations within 5 miles. This is no longer the case

I know this, but I've talked to hospital staff that not only have outdated/irrelevant information they think that 5-mile notification provision was actually a 5-mile no-fly zone.

Thanks for answering my specific question, by the way. Now all I know is that I can simply cite, "2018 FAA Reauthorization Act Section 349 of H. 304"

 

[7KJT7Y2I]

You just said you weren’t going to interfere with helicopter operations. How much safer can you get?

I wish it were that simple, as if safety were an on/off switch. But in the real world, emergencies can get in the way of a normal workflow. Reasonable assumptions become formerly reasonable assumptions.

Safety isn't for situations when things are nice, clean and predictable. It's about the times when there are failures in the normal system. Times when my ability to not interfere with helicopter operations is itself compromised due to things that are out of my control.

There's also a situational awareness component, which is a critical part of safety. So my ability to not interfere with helicopter operations is necessarily dependent on my ability to understand what's happening around me in real-time. Anything I do to increase my understanding of the state of the airspace above me will always increase safety.

I highly recommend studying this. It does a much better job of articulating my points than I am in this thread:

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/phak/media/04_phak_ch2.pdf