How do I stand legally....

[Porky]

Hi all,

I’ve just had an email about one of the photos I’ve taken, this person would love to buy it to hang in there club house. Now I’m not a CAA qualified pilot just a recreational flyer. I took the photo as i normally do with all my others, just for my own pleasure so can I sell it to them or do I just give it to them with my copy right logo on the photo.

Any guidance would be much appreciated.

Porky??

 

[BB Baggins]

Hey Porky-
Here is the US the FAA considers anything for profit requires a commercial license. Based on some interpretations that would even include posting it to your YouTube channel as it plays toward building your online presence and potentially a business gain. Your copyright could also be interpreted as a form of ownership meaning a possession having value and distribution would again be a form of establishing your brand. Either way the potentional trouble may not be worth it. Just to keep things on the up and up, be flattered by the request and provide the image free of charge with an honorable mention on the print. Keep on flying! JMHO

 

[Former Member]

You take some wonderful photos, its no wonder someone (or more) want to buy them.

Does the CAA require you to qualify to sell your services, similar to the FAA? You might look to become certified, if they require you to. I think you could make some good money selling some of your tug boat shots.

 

[Porky]

Thanks guys for the information, now I’m not 100% sure about the legal rights about selling a photo I took for my own pleasure hence why I ask the question, this has never happened to me before and no doubt it’ll never happen again.

I never went out with the intention of taking a photo then having someone inquire about it, does make you fill good though.

Ok, I’ll send it to them free of charge with a message about who took it.

Knocked me for six when I got the email.?

 

[JLambert]

Hi all,

I’ve just had an email about one of the photos I’ve taken, this person would love to buy it to hang in there club house. Now I’m not a CAA qualified pilot just a recreational flyer. I took the photo as i normally do with all my others, just for my own pleasure so can I sell it to them or do I just give it to them with my copy right logo on the photo.

Any guidance would be much appreciated.

Porky??

If you did not set out to take the picture to sell it, then the intent is not commercial therefore I can't see why you can't sell it after the fact. It would be different if you were asked to come to the location take and take a picture for the club house.

 

[fozzzy]

Sell it! For a small fortune

Thanks guys for the information, now I’m not 100% sure about the legal rights about selling a photo I took for my own pleasure hence why I ask the question, this has never happened to me before and no doubt it’ll never happen again.

I never went out with the intention of taking a photo then having someone inquire about it, does make you fill good though.

Ok, I’ll send it to them free of charge with a message about who took it.

Knocked me for six when I got the email.[emoji106]

 

[Porky]

If you did not set out to take the picture to sell it, then the intent is not commercial therefore I can't see why you can't sell it after the fact. It would be different if you were asked to come to the location take and take a picture for the club house.

No I didn’t get asked?, It was just another photo I took along with what I normally do. I take photos for my own enjoyment not to sell. Gobsmacked I got asked the question though

 

[brett8883]

Hey Porky-
Here is the US the FAA considers anything for profit requires a commercial license. Based on some interpretations that would even include posting it to your YouTube channel as it plays toward building your online presence and potentially a business gain. Your copyright could also be interpreted as a form of ownership meaning a possession having value and distribution would again be a form of establishing your brand. Either way the potentional trouble may not be worth it. Just to keep things on the up and up, be flattered by the request and provide the image free of charge with an honorable mention on the print. Keep on flying! JMHO

This is entirely incorrect and has been hashed out and settled on this forum many many times.

The Federal Aviation Administration has no authority to regulate what you do with your property after the flight is complete. If you fly with any other purpose than for recreation you must have a 107 license. It really has nothing to do with commercial or non commercial it has to do with recreational or non-recreational. If you fly with recreational intent then you do not need a 107. The only thing the FAA can regulate is your intention during the flight.

If after your flight you post it and a Hollywood exec calls and wants to buy the footage that as nothing to do with aviation and so the FAA has no jurisdiction.

Remember the FAA only regulates flight not commerce.

 

[Porky]

Sell it! For a small fortune

If the law aloud me to I would, I’ll go half’s with ya?

 

[Porky]

Now things have changed, I will clarify, I didn’t get asked or paid in any way to take the photo, a normal everyday drone flight taking photo while flying.

 

[brett8883]

If the law aloud me to I would, I’ll go half’s with ya?

You are free to sell your photo or video as you like. If you want to give me half I won’t refuse! Lol

 

[Porky]

You are free to sell your photo or video as you like. If you want to give me half I won’t refuse! Lol

Lol, I surely will I now need to think hard about a price. Thanks again for everyone’s imput, I just wanted to make sure for myself.

 

[brett8883]

Lol, I surely will I now need to think hard about a price. Thanks again for everyone’s imput, I just wanted to make sure for myself.

Hey @Porky I may have made a mistake. I was responding to another post that was giving you the FAA rules for here in the US and so I assumed that was what your question was about. Having read a little closer I realized your question didn’t have to do with the FAA at all and was about the CAA. I have NO knowledge of the CAA rules. Only of those here in the US.

They may be the same but I do not know. I’m sorry for not reading closer the first time

 

[Porky]

Hey @Porky I may have made a mistake. I was responding to another post that was giving you the FAA rules for here in the US and so I assumed that was what your question was about. Having read a little closer I realized your question didn’t have to do with the FAA at all and was about the CAA. I have NO knowledge of the CAA rules. Only of those here in the US.

They may be the same but I do not know. I’m sorry for not reading closer the first time

Bummer......? never mind

 

[brett8883]

Bummer......? never mind

@Porky I felt bad for getting you excited so I did some hard core research and it appears to me the information I gave you above is correct. I’ve pasted the entire section from the CAA below but have the really important stuff in bold.

Below is from Guidance on using small drones for commercial work | UK Civil Aviation Authority

The term Commercial Operations allows a broad variety of flight applications, which are mostly based around aerial photography or the operation of sensors and other data-gathering devices.

Commercial operation is given the following meaning within article the Air Navigation Order:

“…any flight by a small unmanned aircraft except a flight for public transport, or any operation of any other aircraft except an operation for public transport-

(a) which is available to the public;

or

(b) which, when not made available to the public,

i. in the case of a flight by a small unmanned aircraft, is performed under a contract between the SUA operator and a customer, where the latter has no control over the remote pilot;

or

ii. in any other case, is performed under a contract between an operator and a customer, where the latter has no control over the operator,



in return for remuneration or other valuable consideration.”

The key elements in understanding this term are '…any flight by a small unmanned aircraft…in return for remuneration or other valuable consideration'.

The term 'available to the public' should be interpreted as being a service or commodity that any member of the public can make use of, or actively choose to use, (e.g. because it has been advertised or offered to someone).

The essential question that needs to be asked is “what is the purpose of the (specific) flight?” i.e."If I were not receiving payment/valuable consideration, would I still be looking to fly?"

Example 1: A drone operator holding a CAA permission for Commercial Operations is contracted by a site owner to film or survey a building development site or infrastructure facility
This is clearly within the remit of the permission and the operation can proceed within the limitations and conditions stated on the operator's permission.

Example 2: An estate agent or builder's firm wants to use a drone for aerial imagery/survey as part of their service
This also would be considered a commercial operation even if it only comprised a small part of the service to the customer, e.g. advertising a customer's house or checking the property for the extent of works required. The operator of the drone would need to have a CAA permission for Commercial Operations. The estate agent or builder's firm should gain a permission or use the services of an existing permission holder.

While every case should be judged on its own merits, some types of arrangements are not generally considered by the CAA to be commercial operations such as:

• Advertising revenue received as a result of persons visiting a website or social media page where video or photographic stills shot from a drone are displayed/posted. This is because these types of web-pages may be legitimately used to post recreational video material that was not commissioned by another party but was conceived and wholly funded by the poster.

Note: This would not apply if the photographic material had been directly commissioned by another party for the purposes of display or marketing on their website.

• Generation of self-marketing material to display an object, event or other activity. An individual or business would not usually be considered to be conducting commercial operations if the flight is provided only for their own use. Example: A charity, educational establishment, local authority or business acquires a drone which is used (and flown by its own staff) to provide aerial imagery for incorporation into its own promotional material.
• Any other imagery or data collection task where the video, photographic stills or other data collected, are used exclusively for the drone operator's own use.

Ultimately you will have to decide how to interpret all that. However, the fact you were not commissioned to do the flight, you flew even though you thought at the time you would not be compensated, and you completely funded the operation yourself it sounds to me like you are all good to sell it.

 

[Meta4]

Lol, I surely will I now need to think hard about a price. Thanks again for everyone’s imput, I just wanted to make sure for myself.

Just like the FAA, the CAA has no regulations about photos or the sale of photos. Just about flying.
Read the regulation above in post #15.
You made a legal recreational flight in the past.
Selling a photo from that flight doesn't magically change a past legal flight into an illegal flight.
It's all about the flying - not the photo.

 

[Torcan]

No I didn’t get asked?, It was just another photo I took along with what I normally do. I take photos for my own enjoyment not to sell. Gobsmacked I got asked the question though

would you mind terribly sharing the photo here for all of us to see?

 

[BigAl07]

If you did not set out to take the picture to sell it, then the intent is not commercial therefore I can't see why you can't sell it after the fact. It would be different if you were asked to come to the location take and take a picture for the club house.

You do realize you're giving legal advice for someone who is operating in a different country/rules than we have here in the USA?

 

[charliesRig]

Gift it to them Donate.....then if they want they can show there appreciation with a tip/donation to your paypal account
.
....cR
.

 

[Porky]

@Porky I felt bad for getting you excited so I did some hard core research and it appears to me the information I gave you above is correct. I’ve pasted the entire section from the CAA below but have the really important stuff in bold.

Below is from Guidance on using small drones for commercial work | UK Civil Aviation Authority

The term Commercial Operations allows a broad variety of flight applications, which are mostly based around aerial photography or the operation of sensors and other data-gathering devices.

Commercial operation is given the following meaning within article the Air Navigation Order:

“…any flight by a small unmanned aircraft except a flight for public transport, or any operation of any other aircraft except an operation for public transport-

(a) which is available to the public;

or

(b) which, when not made available to the public,

i. in the case of a flight by a small unmanned aircraft, is performed under a contract between the SUA operator and a customer, where the latter has no control over the remote pilot;

or

ii. in any other case, is performed under a contract between an operator and a customer, where the latter has no control over the operator,



in return for remuneration or other valuable consideration.”

The key elements in understanding this term are '…any flight by a small unmanned aircraft…in return for remuneration or other valuable consideration'.

The term 'available to the public' should be interpreted as being a service or commodity that any member of the public can make use of, or actively choose to use, (e.g. because it has been advertised or offered to someone).

The essential question that needs to be asked is “what is the purpose of the (specific) flight?” i.e."If I were not receiving payment/valuable consideration, would I still be looking to fly?"

Example 1: A drone operator holding a CAA permission for Commercial Operations is contracted by a site owner to film or survey a building development site or infrastructure facility
This is clearly within the remit of the permission and the operation can proceed within the limitations and conditions stated on the operator's permission.

Example 2: An estate agent or builder's firm wants to use a drone for aerial imagery/survey as part of their service
This also would be considered a commercial operation even if it only comprised a small part of the service to the customer, e.g. advertising a customer's house or checking the property for the extent of works required. The operator of the drone would need to have a CAA permission for Commercial Operations. The estate agent or builder's firm should gain a permission or use the services of an existing permission holder.

While every case should be judged on its own merits, some types of arrangements are not generally considered by the CAA to be commercial operations such as:

• Advertising revenue received as a result of persons visiting a website or social media page where video or photographic stills shot from a drone are displayed/posted. This is because these types of web-pages may be legitimately used to post recreational video material that was not commissioned by another party but was conceived and wholly funded by the poster.

Note: This would not apply if the photographic material had been directly commissioned by another party for the purposes of display or marketing on their website.

• Generation of self-marketing material to display an object, event or other activity. An individual or business would not usually be considered to be conducting commercial operations if the flight is provided only for their own use. Example: A charity, educational establishment, local authority or business acquires a drone which is used (and flown by its own staff) to provide aerial imagery for incorporation into its own promotional material.
• Any other imagery or data collection task where the video, photographic stills or other data collected, are used exclusively for the drone operator's own use.

Ultimately you will have to decide how to interpret all that. However, the fact you were not commissioned to do the flight, you flew even though you thought at the time you would not be compensated, and you completely funded the operation yourself it sounds to me like you are all good to sell it.

@brett8883

Don’t fill bad about it, you were only trying to help me out, I appreciate what you did and even more so now.

The wording is hard to understand about the rules but it does look good for me if I wanted to sell it.

I’m being very safe with how I go forward with this, I’ve decided to give the photo to this person “free” of charge but if he could mention me somehow on the photo. I’ll even remove my copyright tag from the photo.

I don’t fly my drone to earn any money from it I fly my drone for my own enjoyment, have done for the last five years now but it was nice to have someone interested in one of my photos, does make you fill good?

Again thanks for taking the time and effort with this, something I should have done myself I suppose.