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I have 2 questions about ND Filters for photography & keeping them on.

Isaac94

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Hello, I have 2 questions that I'll ask in point form below, basically I'm going to be doing both photography and videography on my drone, and it's quite a big project for me that starts next month, so I just want to get things right in order, at least in general.

- Do drone photography requires the use of ND Filters ? I've read that ND Filters are mainly for videography and not necessarily needed for drone photography.

- Would it be perfectly fine to keep my ND Filters on the drone camera all the time, even when storing it for long term ?
 
Yes mainly used to slow the shutter speed when doing video (shutter speed twice the frame rate as a guide), so not really needed for photography unless you need to slow the shutter speed for moving water etc.

No issue with keeping them on.

I now use a variable density ND filter, to save keep swapping filters when doing video - so I have just 2 instead of 4-6 filters and just usually keep one on all the time.
 
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Yes mainly used to slow the shutter speed when doing video (shutter speed twice the frame rate as a guide), so not really needed for photography unless you need to slow the shutter speed for moving water etc.

No issue with keeping them on.

I now use a variable density ND filter, to save keep swapping filters when doing video - so I have just 2 instead of 4-6 filters and just usually keep one on all the time.
Thank you very much for your information, really helpful. So now that I know to steer clear of ND Filters when doing photography, on the same topic, is it better to go Auto or Manual for photography ? Would it make much of a noticeable difference ?
 
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I tend to keep the ND filter on when switching between video and photogrphy, because I don't want to land just to take off the filter and then fly back to the same spot. You'll just be shooting at a lower shutter speed, which isn't an issue unless there are high winds, as these drones are very good at staying steady.

I use auto and adjust the EV if highlights are being blown out or if it's too dark, unless you're shooting in tricky light. (I'm a 99% photographer and 1% drone - the drone is just another tool in the armory)
 
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Thank you very much for your information, really helpful. So now that I know to steer clear of ND Filters when doing photography

Yeah I'd say that's best, though there are pilots here that swear it makes no difference to their images.
For video for sure an ND can be useful, though not needed all the time.

Some of those variable NDs start at ND2 (1 stop), and many might think that's not a big thing when considering NDs up to 64 are common.

But, an ND2 basically blocks 50% of light on your sensor, big in photography, and with a 'moving' drone (well, at least not tripod steady) any prolonged opening of the shutter will reduce sharpness.
Sometimes that's ok, as mentioned for waterfall / ocean movement etc, though you really need a good gps lock and no wind to really get the best from it.

For anything less in camera settings than the M2P, it is really down to filters to achieve any sort of water flow type shots, I have ND4 to 64 and the 64 doesn't give the flow like a manual camera can.
There are ND1000 made for my drone (M1P), but not worth the bother as I know it won't be stable enough.

ND filters in general.
I flew at through the day and through noon on 2 semi cloudy days on the weekend, just left my MC-UV filter on and both photos and video came out fine.

Think I'll try that more for video instead of using the NDs, as chopping and changing out is a pain for sure, even testing them before flight to confirm gut feel for light conditions.

Flying low and close I find needs the ND more, just needs that motion blur, while distance shooting it is not so much of a problem.
 
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- Do drone photography requires the use of ND Filters ? I've read that ND Filters are mainly for videography and not necessarily needed for drone photography.
Unless you have a particular reason to want to force a slower shutter speed than otherwise possible, there is no reason to use ND filters for drone photography.

ND filters will affect your photography.
How much will depend on which ND filter.
An ND16 will stop 94% of the light getting through, leaving only 6% for you to work with.

Do you really need ND filters for your video or are you just thinking you need them because you've read about them here?
They aren't much use in a lot of drone videos anyway?
What will you be videoing?
 
Unless you have a particular reason to want to force a slower shutter speed than otherwise possible, there is no reason to use ND filters for drone photography.

ND filters will affect your photography.
How much will depend on which ND filter.
An ND16 will stop 94% of the light getting through, leaving only 6% for you to work with.

Do you really need ND filters for your video or are you just thinking you need them because you've read about them here?
They aren't much use in a lot of drone videos anyway?
What will you be videoing?
Honestly, I bought the ND Filters because I read that it's a necessity for drone videography. But I'm still trying to get the hang of it.

My main concern now would be should I just go with Auto Mode and save all the hassle and just edit in post-editing or would Manual Mode be better for both videography and photography.
 
Honestly, I bought the ND Filters because I read that it's a necessity for drone videography. But I'm still trying to get the hang of it.
Although there are people in forums that talk like they are essential, for most folks, ND filters aren't at all necessary for drone video.
Try some with and without to see what works for you.
My main concern now would be should I just go with Auto Mode and save all the hassle and just edit in post-editing or would Manual Mode be better for both videography and photography.
What will you be shooting for the project?
 
Although there are people in forums that talk like they are essential, for most folks, ND filters aren't at all necessary for drone video.
Try some with and without to see what works for you.

What will you be shooting for the project?
I see, ok will experiment with the ND Filters and see if what works. But you are saying that in most cases, ND Filters is not needed for both videography and photography ?

For this upcoming project I will be taking pictures of shipping containers / trucks and overall aerial view of the transportation company, it will be done in the day, which I believe to be either sunny or cloudy. So I'm thinking if I should just save all the hassle and use Auto Mode and just adjust the EV slider and do post-editing.
 
in most cases, ND Filters is not needed for both videography and photography ?

In your example for a commercial shoot, I'd say you don't need anything, maybe am MC-UV filter to just make the video / photos pop a bit, it helps reduce haze a little too I find.

A commercial client is not looking for motion blur cinematic footage.

Low and / or fast is where I think the motion blur is good to get a little in, and you don't normally have to be spot on to frame / shutter rule there, just in the ball park.
I can usually guess what to throw on if I think it'll help, and can't remember the last time I had to bring the drone back to refit a lesser / stronger ND.
 
In your example for a commercial shoot, I'd say you don't need anything, maybe am MC-UV filter to just make the video / photos pop a bit, it helps reduce haze a little too I find.

A commercial client is not looking for motion blur cinematic footage.

Low and / or fast is where I think the motion blur is good to get a little in, and you don't normally have to be spot on to frame / shutter rule there, just in the ball park.
I can usually guess what to throw on if I think it'll help, and can't remember the last time I had to bring the drone back to refit a lesser / stronger ND.
I see, so what you're saying is that for a client, all I need is my skills and drones equipment, and to get the job done. I don't need to have all these fancy ND filters or making sure I get the smooth cinematic video footage, as these would be or more for my own personal use when I want to ?
 
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I see, so what you're saying is that for a client, all I need is my skills and drones equipment, and to get the job done. I don't need to have all these fancy ND filters or making sure I get the smooth cinematic video footage, as these would be or more for my own personal use when I want to ?

Jobs like shipping containers and trucks, not so much.

A golf club promotional video, maybe depending on the circumstances.
Then it'd be better really to shoot in late blue / golden hour for the light / shadows, and normally ND filters aren't needed as much then.

Low and / or fast, yeah things are really jittery then, so ND filters make a difference, smoothing things out.

I'm pretty sure there would be YouTube videos showing the difference, with / without filters.
 
I see, so what you're saying is that for a client, all I need is my skills and drones equipment, and to get the job done. I don't need to have all these fancy ND filters or making sure I get the smooth cinematic video footage, as these would be or more for my own personal use when I want to ?
A quick guide for you.
Still photography.

You do not need to ever use an ND filter, so leave it off.

Note: If doing still photography and you want to make the river look like it is a flowing piece of foam or sheer material etc. you understand what I'm saying here, I hope, then you would need to slow down the shutter speed quite a bit, so would need to use an ND filter, especially if there was a lot of light. You would also need to use a tripod for that effect, to be sure the rest of the scene is pin sharp and just any moving object gets blurred.

You might be at the seaside and wanting to get that evening milky smooth look to the water (caused by a long exposure to blur all water movement) as it moves about or it's a rough see and you want to smear it into sort of a white smear. Then you need the ND filter and again, a tripod.

Question:
How often are you ever going to want to capture such a shot with your drone? Probably never, and if you ever do want to capture that type of shot as a still image, then use a DSLR and a tripod and leave your drone at home.

For video

For the average filmer, you never need to use an ND filter, you can adjust your exposure to get a properly exposed bit of video. Now, if you do wish to make the video look more like film, which sort of blurs movement due to frame rates etc., then you might want to learn when and how to use an ND filter, to slow things down to achieve that effect.

For most video jobs, the client is not looking for such an effect, so no need to use an ND filter. For most of what you may wish to film for fun, you won't need that effect either, therefore you will not need to use the ND filter for your fun filming. There is too much emphasis put on the use of ND filters for digital video work and people new to this often read what is being said and go out and buy a bunch of different value ND filters.

Then they spend loads of time trying them out and fiddling with exposures in an attempt to get it all just right (some manage it, others fail) and waste a lot of time unnecessarily. In the mean time the rest of us have been flying and filming just fine with great results, while the ND brigade have been playing about wasting their time.

If you have the filters already, as was suggested, take a quick flight, do some filming and then land and take the ND filter off. Now go and fly and film again and be sure you have the correct exposure for the scene in both flights and see if you spot the difference, or better yet, ask someone else to tell you the difference. I think you'll leave the ND filters in the holder. I've never used an ND filter while videoing an rarely use them when doing still photography, but when I do, it is because I want that effect. Hope this helps.
 
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My sharpness problems with ND filters and Photography has always been during the golden hour times when the earth doesn't have the same direct overhead lighting as it generally does with aerial photography. I feel that I have had way less than optimum results from trying to video and photograph on the same mission during those times. No problem at mid day but I'm not a big fan of flat overhead lighting.
 
My sharpness problems with ND filters and Photography has always been during the golden hour times when the earth doesn't have the same direct overhead lighting as it generally does with aerial photography. I feel that I have had way less than optimum results from trying to video and photograph on the same mission during those times. No problem at mid day but I'm not a big fan of flat overhead lighting.
An ND filter is used to reduce light. Shooting at the times you state, is when you have the least light, so why would you need to be using an ND filter then?
 
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I didn't need them for photography and that was the point. I wanted to video from a fairly low altitude and felt I needed them for that. In hindsight I would have rather taken my chances with the video and improved my changes with the still shots.
An ND filter is used to reduce light. Shooting at the times you state, is when you have the least light, so why would you need to be using an ND filter then?
 
I didn't need them for photography and that was the point. I wanted to video from a fairly low altitude and felt I needed them for that. In hindsight I would have rather taken my chances with the video and improved my changes with the still shots.
Precisely... I did not say for photography, I said you were shooting at the low light points of the day. That means you do not need an ND filter for video at that time of day because the whole premise of an ND filter is to reduce light and shooting/filming/videoing at that time of day is the least amount of light. Therefore, you would not even need an ND. This is what I stated in the above message. I hope you now understand it.
 
A quick guide for you.
Still photography.

You do not need to ever use an ND filter, so leave it off.

Note: If doing still photography and you want to make the river look like it is a flowing piece of foam or sheer material etc. you understand what I'm saying here, I hope, then you would need to slow down the shutter speed quite a bit, so would need to use an ND filter, especially if there was a lot of light. You would also need to use a tripod for that effect, to be sure the rest of the scene is pin sharp and just any moving object gets blurred.

You might be at the seaside and wanting to get that evening milky smooth look to the water (caused by a long exposure to blur all water movement) as it moves about or it's a rough see and you want to smear it into sort of a white smear. Then you need the ND filter and again, a tripod.

Question:
How often are you ever going to want to capture such a shot with your drone? Probably never, and if you ever do want to capture that type of shot as a still image, then use a DSLR and a tripod and leave your drone at home.

For video

For the average filmer, you never need to use an ND filter, you can adjust your exposure to get a properly exposed bit of video. Now, if you do wish to make the video look more like film, which sort of blurs movement due to frame rates etc., then you might want to learn when and how to use an ND filter, to slow things down to achieve that effect.

For most video jobs, the client is not looking for such an effect, so no need to use an ND filter. For most of what you may wish to film for fun, you won't need that effect either, therefore you will not need to use the ND filter for your fun filming. There is too much emphasis put on the use of ND filters for digital video work and people new to this often read what is being said and go out and buy a bunch of different value ND filters.

Then they spend loads of time trying them out and fiddling with exposures in an attempt to get it all just right (some manage it, others fail) and waste a lot of time unnecessarily. In the mean time the rest of us have been flying and filming just fine with great results, while the ND brigade have been playing about wasting their time.

If you have the filters already, as was suggested, take a quick flight, do some filming and then land and take the ND filter off. Now go and fly and film again and be sure you have the correct exposure for the scene in both flights and see if you spot the difference, or better yet, as someone else to tell you the difference. I think you'll leave the ND filters in the holder. I've never used an ND filter while videoing an rarely use them when doing still photography, but when I do, it is because I want that effect. Hope this helps.
Thank you very much for the detailed advice and information. Now I have an absolute clear picture of ND Filters and what it does.

On a side note, regarding still photography, would Auto Mode perform just as well as Manual Mode ? I mean, I don't think I ( or most people for that matter ) would have the luxury of our own time meddling with the settings to make sure it's the correct one in Manual Mode, rather I believe when most people is on the job, they just take pictures / shoot videos on Auto, would Auto works just as well ?
 
Thank you very much for the detailed advice and information. Now I have an absolute clear picture of ND Filters and what it does.

On a side note, regarding still photography, would Auto Mode perform just as well as Manual Mode ? I mean, I don't think I ( or most people for that matter ) would have the luxury of our own time meddling with the settings to make sure it's the correct one in Manual Mode, rather I believe when most people is on the job, they just take pictures / shoot videos on Auto, would Auto works just as well ?
Okay... well different camera makers have different configurations in their camera's auto settings. It is never one size fits all, between them or even with one camera in all lighting situations. I'll try to simplify it for you.

When set to auto and in good to ideal lighting situations, the auto setting works very well. With that said, it all depends on the user and what they are filming and where. Auto takes and average all over reading of the lighting value and then tries its best to give you an average exposure for what you are pointed at.

Lets look at some examples so that you have a better understanding of what is going on in Auto. Say you are filming a white person against a white background and a black person against a darker background. Auto setting will or should, give you a very good outcome because it takes the overall light coming into the camera and gives an average exposure to take into account the largest area of light and compensates the exposure setting for that situation.

Therefore the white person against a light background means that the light background will trigger the auto setting mechanism to reduce the amount of light coming into the camera sensor, to help give the light background a correct exposure. In doing so, it will of course allow the white person's skin to also be more or less correctly exposed. The same goes for a darker background and a black person. The auto meter will take the major area, which is dark, and compensate for the darker area and allow a little more light to come into the camera, giving an average overall exposure that should show a nicely exposed image.

Now, where the problem with auto exposure is when there is a large disparity between light and dark areas. Let's now take that black person and put them against the light background and the white person against the dark background. The auto setting will again sense the major area of light, which if the light background, will expose for that and tell the camera to darken the overall setting. This will give correct, darker exposure for that large light background, but the black person's skin will also be darker, rendering them under exposed or too dark for a correct image exposure of the person.

Same for the white person now against the dark background. The auto meter will sense the overall darker image and allow more light into the camera to give a correct exposure for the main element, that being the dark background. So the camera will brighten things up a bit but in so doing, will now over expose the white person's skin and causing them to become burned out. There is no perfect setting for such situations and no camera is capable of giving a single correct exposure setting, in the way our eye can see the scene. Our eyes have a far, far greater dynamic range than any current camera made for consumers.

That's why we shoot about 5 different exposures at the same (roughly) time when trying to get a proper exposure for a difficult scene like that explained above. Then we sandwich these five images and take the best exposed sections of each image to suit what we need for the perfect HDR manipulated photo. You can't do that with video, only still images.

Therefore, when you shoot in auto and you have a lot of sky in the scene, the auto setting will tell the camera to darken down the scene, correctly exposing the sky but then making the ground too dark for a correct setting. If you have a lot of darker ground in the scene and smaller area of bright sky, the auto setting will lighten up that darker ground to give it a correct exposure, though by doing so, it will over lighten or burn out the portion of sky in the framed scene. You compensate for this with a graduated filter, so that the upper section is darker and the lower section is clear. That will fool the auto meter into giving the scene the overall correct exposure. That is, assuming the framing you did allows for half the sky and half the ground in the shot. This immediately goes wrong if you were to raise or lower the camera position as you flew. Again, even a manual setting can not compensate for this situation.

Another problem with auto is when we have plenty of sunlight on the ground with the sun behind us as we fly and film, which would give a very good all over exposure for both sky and ground. Now let's assume you then do a slow 180 degree turn into the sun. As you get closer to the sun the auto setting will begin to darken down everything until it faces the sun, when it will expose correctly for the sky, but making it dark, due to the sun getting in there and the ground will be very dark. If you used a manual setting for this, you could adjust as you came around into the sun and begin to open up the aperture and you turned into the sun. This would continue to give you a good exposure for the ground but it would of course burn out the sun and sky, when turned into the sun.

Again, there is nothing that can be done about such a large dynamic range of light to dark, in such a scene. Therefore when filming in such a situation and in a manual setting, you must divide up the light and dark areas and use a mid range exposure to try and get the best of both extremes of the dynamic range. So the dark earth would be a little darker than would be perfect and the sky portion would be a little lighter than what would be a perfect exposure. So you need to choose what is the best average exposure for both light and dark areas.

As you can see, there is no perfect setting for all lighting and framing situations. However, if you are shooting manual, you can at least do some compensating while flying to adjust the aperture to try and optimize your overall exposure. If you are careful and choose wisely what direction you fly each time you begin to record, then you will probably get a good overall exposure if you opt for the Auto setting. However, that depends largely on you for choosing the direct to fly and what you are going to film each time you press the record button.

As you can see, there is no perfect setting for all situations you will encounter as you fly. That's why it is good to understand lighting and dynamic range of your subject matter and be mindful of how and what you are shooting. Only then, will you be able to correctly (hopefully) choose which setting and mode you should have the camera set to. This was not an easy nor quick question to answer for you and maybe I did not simplify it for you, but I hope it helped, so apologies for such a long post. I suppose to sum it up regarding still photography, shoot in auto and see how it looks. If you need to compensate lighter or darker, then make adjustments to do that with the plus and minus settings, plus adds light minus takes light away. The other thing that would be best all-round, for difficult dynamic range situations, is to shoot in HDR and use 5 images at a time. Three could work in many situations but with five, you have probably cover the entire dynamic range to give you the best chance of a very good final image. Now you have a better idea of settings for both video and still image capture.
 
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