DJI Mavic, Air and Mini Drones
Friendly, Helpful & Knowledgeable Community
Join Us Now

I have 2 questions about ND Filters for photography & keeping them on.

Okay... well different camera makers have different configurations in their camera's auto settings. It is never one size fits all, between them or even with one camera in all lighting situations. I'll try to simplify it for you.

When set to auto and in good to ideal lighting situations, the auto setting works very well. With that said, it all depends on the user and what they are filming and where. Auto takes and average all over reading of the lighting value and then tries its best to give you an average exposure for what you are pointed at.

Lets look at some examples so that you have a better understanding of what is going on in Auto. Say you are filming a white person against a white background and a black person against a darker background. Auto setting will or should, give you a very good outcome because it takes the overall light coming into the camera and gives an average exposure to take into account the largest area of light and compensates the exposure setting for that situation.

Therefore the white person against a light background means that the light background will trigger the auto setting mechanism to reduce the amount of light coming into the camera sensor, to help give the light background a correct exposure. In doing so, it will of course allow the white person's skin to also be more or less correctly exposed. The same goes for a darker background and a black person. The auto meter will take the major area, which is dark, and compensate for the darker area and allow a little more light to come into the camera, giving an average overall exposure that should show a nicely exposed image.

Now, where the problem with auto exposure is when there is a large disparity between light and dark areas. Let's now take that black person and put them against the light background and the white person against the dark background. The auto setting will again sense the major area of light, which if the light background, will expose for that and tell the camera to darken the overall setting. This will give correct, darker exposure for that large light background, but the black person's skin will also be darker, rendering them under exposed or too dark for a correct image exposure of the person.

Same for the white person now against the dark background. The auto meter will sense the overall darker image and allow more light into the camera to give a correct exposure for the main element, that being the dark background. So the camera will brighten things up a bit but in so doing, will now over expose the white person's skin and causing them to become burned out. There is no perfect setting for such situations and no camera is capable of giving a single correct exposure setting, in the way our eye can see the scene. Our eyes have a far, far greater dynamic range than any current camera made for consumers.

That's why we shoot about 5 different exposures at the same (roughly) time when trying to get a proper exposure for a difficult scene like that explained above. Then we sandwich these five images and take the best exposed sections of each image to suit what we need for the perfect HDR manipulated photo. You can't do that with video, only still images.

Therefore, when you shoot in auto and you have a lot of sky in the scene, the auto setting will tell the camera to darken down the scene, correctly exposing the sky but then making the ground too dark for a correct setting. If you have a lot of darker ground in the scene and smaller area of bright sky, the auto setting will lighten up that darker ground to give it a correct exposure, though by doing so, it will over lighten or burn out the portion of sky in the framed scene. You compensate for this with a graduated filter, so that the upper section is darker and the lower section is clear. That will fool the auto meter into giving the scene the overall correct exposure. That is, assuming the framing you did allows for half the sky and half the ground in the shot. This immediately goes wrong if you were to raise or lower the camera position as you flew. Again, even a manual setting can not compensate for this situation.

Another problem with auto is when we have plenty of sunlight on the ground with the sun behind us as we fly and film, which would give a very good all over exposure for both sky and ground. Now let's assume you then do a slow 180 degree turn into the sun. As you get closer to the sun the auto setting will begin to darken down everything until it faces the sun, when it will expose correctly for the sky, but making it dark, due to the sun getting in there and the ground will be very dark. If you used a manual setting for this, you could adjust as you came around into the sun and begin to open up the aperture and you turned into the sun. This would continue to give you a good exposure for the ground but it would of course burn out the sun and sky, when turned into the sun.

Again, there is nothing that can be done about such a large dynamic range of light to dark, in such a scene. Therefore when filming in such a situation and in a manual setting, you must divide up the light and dark areas and use a mid range exposure to try and get the best of both extremes of the dynamic range. So the dark earth would be a little darker than would be perfect and the sky portion would be a little lighter than what would be a perfect exposure. So you need to choose what is the best average exposure for both light and dark areas.

As you can see, there is no perfect setting for all lighting and framing situations. However, if you are shooting manual, you can at least do some compensating while flying to adjust the aperture to try and optimize your overall exposure. If you are careful and choose wisely what direction you fly each time you begin to record, then you will probably get a good overall exposure if you opt for the Auto setting. However, that depends largely on you for choosing the direct to fly and what you are going to film each time you press the record button.

As you can see, there is no perfect setting for all situations you will encounter as you fly. That's why it is good to understand lighting and dynamic range of your subject matter and be mindful of how and what you are shooting. Only then, will you be able to correctly (hopefully) choose which setting and mode you should have the camera set to. This was not an easy nor quick question to answer for you and maybe I did not simplify it for you, but I hope it helped, so apologies for such a long post. I suppose to sum it up regarding still photography, shoot in auto and see how it looks. If you need to compensate lighter or darker, then make adjustments to do that with the plus and minus settings, plus adds light minus takes light away. The other thing that would be best all-round, for difficult dynamic range situations, is to shot in HDR and use 5 images at a time. Now you have a better idea of settings for both video and still image capture.
Thank you so much, I read it all although it's long, but it's honestly worth the read. I appreciate your time in writing such long detailed explanation to me.

My settings is currently set at Auto Mode with AEB - 5 pictures, and I plan to merge them all together in post-editing. I understand most part but the plus and minus, do you mean the EV slider that is in the bottom where you can press + or - and it'll adjust the overall exposure ?
 
My settings is currently set at Auto Mode with AEB - 5 pictures, and I plan to merge them all together in post-editing.
Don't feel you should do this for everything.
It's just a trick you can use when there's too big a range between the brightest and darkest parts of your image.
Wherever possible try to have the sun behind the drone so it's lighting the subject, rather than shooting into the sun.
And if you are lucky, you'll get a nice overcast day so there are no shadows or burnt out highlights.
I understand most part but the plus and minus, do you mean the EV slider that is in the bottom where you can press + or - and it'll adjust the overall exposure ?
Yes ... the exposure compensation setting.
You can set it to shoot above or below the setting that the camera's meter would choose for an average scene.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cymruflyer
do you mean the EV slider that is in the bottom where you can press + or - and it'll adjust the overall exposure ?
Don't know about the Air 1 RC, but on my MP Platinum and P3P RCs the right wheel adjusts EV compensation in 0.7 fstop increments... much quicker and easier than fiddling with the screen menus... you can see the result on the screen immediately.
 
Thank you so much, I read it all although it's long, but it's honestly worth the read. I appreciate your time in writing such long detailed explanation to me.

My settings is currently set at Auto Mode with AEB - 5 pictures, and I plan to merge them all together in post-editing. I understand most part but the plus and minus, do you mean the EV slider that is in the bottom where you can press + or - and it'll adjust the overall exposure ?
As Meta4 quite correctly stated, for the most part, you never need to do an HDR 5 image shoot. In my explanation I was explaining what might be needed for difficult lighting situations that have a very wide dynamic range (between very light and very dark scenes). In general we don't find this too often while filming or taking still images. You would encounter this early in the morning and later in the evening, when the sun is low and you could get long dark shadows and relatively bright skies, to have to contend with, in one image.

I didn't mention ISO setting because I did not want to add more confusion. However, as has been stated, it is always best to use the lowest ISO you can get away with for the best image because the higher the ISO setting, the more noise or grain (from real film days) will be apparent in your image. With that said, for still images, there are some very good de-noise software programmes out there now. It is still best to do what ever you can in camera and not in post, for the best images.

Meta4 has explained about the plus and minus, it is the EV and is the simplest way to make an adjustment to a scene prior to taking the photo. Thanks for taking the time to read through it all, you should have a much better understanding of what goes into creating a good image and how to best use what you have at hand to help in difficult lighting situations. I have seen that the Auto White balance does seem to work extremely well. There are times when you might wish to manually adjust this too, when you know what you are doing, to adjust for colour shift in the camera, and then tweak it in post.

As an example, with my DSLR I shoot far more with a cloud setting on my WB than a sun setting, because I find it gives an overall warmer image than the often cool cast that sun gives. Again that depends on the camera and make of camera. Experimenting with the WB setting for different times of day and year and atmospherics, is a good way to work out what is best for your particular taste.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: umanbean
A quick guide for you.
Still photography.

You do not need to ever use an ND filter, so leave it off.

Note: If doing still photography and you want to make the river look like it is a flowing piece of foam or sheer material etc. you understand what I'm saying here, I hope, then you would need to slow down the shutter speed quite a bit, so would need to use an ND filter, especially if there was a lot of light. You would also need to use a tripod for that effect, to be sure the rest of the scene is pin sharp and just any moving object gets blurred.

You might be at the seaside and wanting to get that evening milky smooth look to the water (caused by a long exposure to blur all water movement) as it moves about or it's a rough see and you want to smear it into sort of a white smear. Then you need the ND filter and again, a tripod.

Question:
How often are you ever going to want to capture such a shot with your drone? Probably never, and if you ever do want to capture that type of shot as a still image, then use a DSLR and a tripod and leave your drone at home.

For video

For the average filmer, you never need to use an ND filter, you can adjust your exposure to get a properly exposed bit of video. Now, if you do wish to make the video look more like film, which sort of blurs movement due to frame rates etc., then you might want to learn when and how to use an ND filter, to slow things down to achieve that effect.

For most video jobs, the client is not looking for such an effect, so no need to use an ND filter. For most of what you may wish to film for fun, you won't need that effect either, therefore you will not need to use the ND filter for your fun filming. There is too much emphasis put on the use of ND filters for digital video work and people new to this often read what is being said and go out and buy a bunch of different value ND filters.

Then they spend loads of time trying them out and fiddling with exposures in an attempt to get it all just right (some manage it, others fail) and waste a lot of time unnecessarily. In the mean time the rest of us have been flying and filming just fine with great results, while the ND brigade have been playing about wasting their time.

If you have the filters already, as was suggested, take a quick flight, do some filming and then land and take the ND filter off. Now go and fly and film again and be sure you have the correct exposure for the scene in both flights and see if you spot the difference, or better yet, ask someone else to tell you the difference. I think you'll leave the ND filters in the holder. I've never used an ND filter while videoing an rarely use them when doing still photography, but when I do, it is because I want that effect. Hope this helps.
I wish I'd seen a post like this when I first realized I had flying camera. I spent a fortune on ND filters for long exposure and variable filters, etc, ad nauseum. I got completely sucked in by the YouTubers spruiking filters for this and that. Turns out I didn't need any of them!

I only fly now with a Freewell IR/UV filter which I use to replace the M2P Hasselblad glass one. I've learned so much more from this forum than anywhere else on the finer points of drone videography. Nice info guys! 👍
 
I shoot video all the time on my Mini and I leave the ND filters on unless its in the darkening evening. Smoothness of the video cant be beat. BUT, i use SunnyLife ND filters and they impart an ugly brown tinge that has to be cleaned up in Final Cut Pro to match my other camera footage. Not a problem if you don’t mind post editing, but otherwise check the reviews of the ND filters and make sure people are happy with their colour rendition. They arent supposed to change colour in the video…but they do.
 
Hello, I have 2 questions that I'll ask in point form below, basically I'm going to be doing both photography and videography on my drone, and it's quite a big project for me that starts next month, so I just want to get things right in order, at least in general.

- Do drone photography requires the use of ND Filters ? I've read that ND Filters are mainly for videography and not necessarily needed for drone photography.

- Would it be perfectly fine to keep my ND Filters on the drone camera all the time, even when storing it for long term ?
Not needed for still photography. I keep a clear one on with a polarizer though to protect the lens and cut down on the glair. And yes, I would recommend you keep one on in fact. Simply to protect the lens. Good luck with your project.

Cordially,

Mark Lent
 
I wish I'd seen a post like this when I first realized I had flying camera. I spent a fortune on ND filters for long exposure and variable filters, etc, ad nauseum. I got completely sucked in by the YouTubers spruiking filters for this and that. Turns out I didn't need any of them!

I only fly now with a Freewell IR/UV filter which I use to replace the M2P Hasselblad glass one. I've learned so much more from this forum than anywhere else on the finer points of drone videography. Nice info guys! 👍
The "YouTubers" are generally shooting video, so they use ND filters because if the shutter speed runs too high, you can get some strange effects if for example, there is a fast moving object in the frame. So, for video good, for photos, not necessary.

Cordially,

Mark
 
Not needed for still photography. I keep a clear one on with a polarizer though to protect the lens and cut down on the glair. And yes, I would recommend you keep one on in fact. Simply to protect the lens. Good luck with your project.

Cordially,

Mark Lent
A polarizer only works in certain angles to the sun, so more of the 360 degrees around your camera will most likely not need the PL filter. Best practice for photography, is never to put anything on the lens that is not absolutely needed, because any glass in front will degrade the image somewhat, compared to nothing in front of the lens. Yes, put something on if you like, when on the ground and in the bag for transporting for protection, but once ready to take off, remove any filter unless it is needed to alter the image intentionally, that you expect to take.
 
A polarizer only works in certain angles to the sun, so more of the 360 degrees around your camera will most likely not need the PL filter. Best practice for photography, is never to put anything on the lens that is not absolutely needed, because any glass in front will degrade the image somewhat, compared to nothing in front of the lens. Yes, put something on if you like, when on the ground and in the bag for transporting for protection, but once ready to take off, remove any filter unless it is needed to alter the image intentionally, that you expect to take.
Very true, but generally, when working with a drone, various angles can be explored and the opportunity to find a better angle is much easier since there is a potential 360 degrees to shoot from. The polarizer will maximize this.

Cordially,

Mark
 

DJI Drone Deals

New Threads

Forum statistics

Threads
135,095
Messages
1,602,463
Members
163,583
Latest member
phil61
Want to Remove this Ad? Simply login or create a free account