I need some help with the rules

[Skybuyer]

Ok sounds like I am not able to do this even though I’m not selling the videos.

The FAA rules tend to be extremely strict. As a work project you would not be allowed to do this because you are doing it in your course of work and getting paid, even if not explicitly for taking the video. Being on or off the clock probably wouldn't matter because it would used for training people in a commercial entity.

 

[Chris88]

Ok... lot's of Half Right and some WRONG information in this thread.

There is no way "filming training at work while you're working" could ever be considered "Recreational".

Let's break it down into easy to digest pieces:

• A) You can NOT hobby/recreate for another person... period.
• B) The way you worded it 100% takes out any "Grey Area" you might have tried to claim otherwise.
• C) Making $$ is but one way to violate the Hobby/Recreational protective bubble. You can be required to have Part 107 for many things outside of "just" making $$.
• D) By Filming a work activity, while at work, could put not only you the RPIC in jeopardy but your employer as well.

Odds are NOTHING would ever come of this and the FAA would never know about it but . . . it's possible someone you share the video with could put it on their Social Media and someone could see it and REPORT it. At that point the FAA will investigate and who knows what would come from it. Most likely just a bunch of paperwork and a "Don't do that again" depending on your attitude etc.

The FAA doesn't care specifically what you DO with the data you create while flying... they care about the FLIGHT itself and was it carried out Recreational or outside of Recreational. If you was in my district/region we would be having some in-depth conversation about those actions.

Getting PAID to train these people and Flying the UAS to document/capture their training etc is not Recreational. That's just not how it works.

Sincerely,
Allen
FAA SAFETY Team Representative (Charlotte NC Reg)
FAA SAFETY Team Drone Pro (Charlotte NC Reg)

So when

Yes sir and once you have it you'll be able to fly commercially or recreationally as you wish.

Just keep in mind that you can't Mix & Match rules from one to the other. If you initiate a flight under Hobby Rules the flight must be concluded following ALL hobby rules and vice versa.

If you have any questions etc just come back here and ask.

and KUDOS to you for asking before hand. Well done

So when I get my part 107 I should be ok to do this?

 

[MtnFlyer]

None of my business, just trying to participate on the forum - please don’t slap me down...

From what I read the guy wants to take a few recreational drone videos of his co-workers and give them to them. He didn’t say anything about videos for work, safety videos, etc. Sounds like he wants to make a cool drone video of his co-workers and simply give it to them to enjoy. In as much as it is not sponsored by his employer (though allowed), there is no furtherance of business and the intent is (my opinion) recreational, I don't see where he needs a 107. How is what he is doing different than taking a video of grandma riding the mower and giving it to her. The fact that a recreational video is taking place while he is at work seems irrelevant to me.

But what do I know...

Please set me straight if I’m off the rails here.

Thanks!

 

[BigAl07]

So when

So when I get my part 107 I should be ok to do this?

Yes sir. So long as you follow the rules of Part 107 you're good to go.

 

[BigAl07]

None of my business, just trying to participate on the forum - please don’t slap me down...

From what I read the guy wants to take a few recreational drone videos of his co-workers and give them to them. He didn’t say anything about videos for work, safety videos, etc. Sounds like he wants to make a cool drone video of his co-workers and simply give it to them to enjoy. In as much as it is not sponsored by his employer (though allowed), there is no furtherance of business and the intent is (my opinion) recreational, I don't see where he needs a 107. How is what he is doing different than taking a video of grandma riding the mower and giving it to her. The fact that a recreational video is taking place while he is at work seems irrelevant to me.

But what do I know...

Please set me straight if I’m off the rails here.

Thanks!

Yes he wants to make a cool video of his WORK, of co-workers doing their WORK, during WORK hours, while on the WORK clock. Any ONE of those criteria would "pop" the Hobby/Recreational bubble let alone ALL of them.

I understand you don't see why he needs Part 107 but the fact of the matter the above scenario is in no way RECREATIONAL and the regulations state, Unless you fly 100% within the RECREATIONAL rules Part 107 is required by LAW!

See every UAS operation, by default is a Civil Operator (unless operating under a Public Use COA or something similar) which is Part 107. Congress has allowed for a Carve Out (relief from) of Part 107 rules for Hobby/Recreational operations. Basically this is a Protective Bubble for Hobby/Recreational Operators that is easily pierced and once that bubble is popped the operator is fully held accountable for all Part 107 regulations even if they have never heard of or acquired Part 107. So if your flight doesn't fit totally within the protective bubble it's a Part 107 flight regardless of what you think/want/suspect.

Allen

 

[MtnFlyer]

Yes he wants to make a cool video of his WORK, of co-workers doing their WORK, during WORK hours, while on the WORK clock. Any ONE of those criteria would "pop" the Hobby/Recreational bubble let alone ALL of them.

Let’s respectfully agree to disagree on this one.

Are the leaves in full color down there in the Smokies yet?

 

[BigAl07]

Let’s respectfully agree to disagree on this one.

I respect your point but I'm deeply invested (an FAA Representative) in UAS Rules & Regulations.

Are the leaves in full color down there in the Smokies yet?

Not here in my area (Asheville/Maggie Valley). Some of the early changers are getting colored up but I'd guess we have another week or two before my elevation hits PEAK Up along the Blue Ridge Parkway the colors are a bit closer to peak and with the much cooler overnight temps it should kick the colors in High Gear quickly.

 

[Droning on and on...]

...
But what do I know...

Please set me straight if I’m off the rails here.

Thanks!

So someone who works with the FAA sets you straight and now you just want to "agree to disagree".

Sheesh!

 

[PhantomFandom]

Let’s respectfully agree to disagree on this one.

Are the leaves in full color down there in the Smokies yet?

Sorry but in this case there's no wiggle room to disagree. It's not a matter of interpretation like disagreeing about whether a P4P is better than a M2P. This is clearly and without a doubt a case of Part 107 operations. You can decide to disagree but you would be wrong. Worse than just being wrong, is that it may steer some other UAS pilot to break the laws and think that everything is fine.

 

[MtnFlyer]

Sheesh!
[/QUOTE]

Sorry but in this case there's no wiggle room to disagree. It's not a matter of interpretation like disagreeing about whether a P4P is better than a M2P. This is clearly and without a doubt a case of Part 107 operations. You can decide to disagree but you would be wrong. Worse than just being wrong, is that it may steer some other UAS pilot to break the laws and think that everything is fine.

I don’t think I’m wrong, but I appreciate the civil dialog.

It’s interesting, I’ve been reading a ton of old posts on this and other forums in regards to the FAA, 107 and how it may or may not apply - based on various forum repliers (is that a word? ).

My advice to the OP is come to these forums, pose your questions, glean and filter the advice/opinions given in good faith. Then go directly to the FAA and ask for clarification in writing, so if they come calling, you have something concrete to stand on.

Again - much thanks for the civil debate here.

Take care!

 

[PhantomFandom]

I don’t think I’m wrong, but I appreciate the civil dialog.

No problem. That's what being adult is all about. There's no need to get personal and nasty as I have seen (and received responses) from some others in these forums. It invariably happens when I call out people for flying beyond VLOS (and I mean way beyond VLOS) that they get rude and always say it's their right or they know which laws they need to follow.

It’s interesting, I’ve been reading a ton of old posts on this and other forums in regards to the FAA, 107 and how it may or may not apply - based on various forum repliers (is that a word? ).

True but again it comes down to those who have seen it enough and have read the regulations and those who only think they know the right answer. In this specific context we have already seem several incorrect responses that point to compensation. That couldn't be further from the truth because the regulations have nothing to do with being compensated.

My advice to the OP is come to these forums, pose your questions, glean and filter the advice/opinions given in good faith. Then go directly to the FAA and ask for clarification in writing, so if they come calling, you have something concrete to stand on.

Ah but there lies the problem. If/when you call the FAA they are generally the typical bureaucrats that will either point you to the regulations or give you a 5 minute speech without saying a single substantive thing. They should become politicians!! I have been through this myself. I call my local FSDO and they are not downright rude, but definitely cold and totally unresponsive. They don't want to get themselves into a tough spot by saying something wrong so they say nothing at all. It is very frustrating!! They certainly WILL NEVER give it to you in writing.

However @BigAl07 is about as close as you will get on these forums to an official FAA representative. He works closely with them and knows what the FAA is looking for. So you may disagree but there's really no point of contention in this matter.

Again - much thanks for the civil debate here.

And again I thank you for the same. This reminds me of a t-shirt I have, which is one of my favorites. It says "I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong"

 

[rob levine]

Hello everyone I am a recreational flyer. I train lineman, I would like to use my drone to get some videos of them climbing and working on the poles. I would not be flying over 100 feet. It would be during work. The videos would be nice to give them. Would it be ok to do this?
Thanks Chris

This is illegal without a Part 107. Rec flyers can ONLY fly for pure fun. If you fly for ANY other reason you need Part 107

 

[MA2 317]

Yes he wants to make a cool video of his WORK, of co-workers doing their WORK, during WORK hours, while on the WORK clock. Any ONE of those criteria would "pop" the Hobby/Recreational bubble let alone ALL of them.

Just curious, if he has a buddy that is off the clock and just happens to be in the area and fly the drone to film the guys working? ?

No one is paid.
Hobby flight?
Shared content?

Thanks for the answer.

 

[rob levine]

Just curious, if he has a buddy that is off the clock and just happens to be in the area and fly the drone to film the guys working? ?

No one is paid.
Hobby flight?
Shared content?

Thanks for the answer.

It's all about intent. This would require Part 107. Look - no one goes around policing this stuff, so it would prolly turn out ok. The FAA doesn't scour the Internet looking for drone pilots breaking the rules. The real problem is if something goes wrong - then the fines can get onerous very quickly.

 

[Aerial Edge]

Hell you could see if you can get a 107 pilot to come out for the day, I am sure someone would love to get that kind of footage to use. He can also stand next to you while you fly as the RPIC and you would be good to go to manipulate the controls. Covers you, and may help someone with a small business get some good footage to use.

ETA: You do not have your location in your profile. If you are close to me in any way I would be more then happy to help you, at no charge.

 

[baddog]

Hello everyone I am a recreational flyer. I train lineman, I would like to use my drone to get some videos of them climbing and working on the poles. I would not be flying over 100 feet. It would be during work. The videos would be nice to give them. Would it be ok to do this?
Thanks Chris

I hate to be a ball buster, but if the end user ever decides to use said video for monetary gain or to promote business, then yes you are on the hook for that. It has now become commercial work.

 

[Thomas B]

I hate to be a ball buster, but if the end user ever decides to use said video for monetary gain or to promote business, then yes you are on the hook for that. It has now become commercial work.

Wrong... FAA regs on this apply only to the person and intent when the video was taken.

 

[DanMan32]

It's all about intent. This would require Part 107. Look - no one goes around policing this stuff, so it would prolly turn out ok. The FAA doesn't scour the Internet looking for drone pilots breaking the rules. The real problem is if something goes wrong - then the fines can get onerous very quickly.

Actually that would be a grey area. If the buddy was intending to just fly around and found the work interesting, then the workers are the drone and say oh cool, let me see! Then ask for a copy, that's not necessarily 107. As you even said, it's about intent at the time of flight.

Actually FAA has contacted violators about videos found on the internet. More often it's about the legality of the flight itself such as BVLOS or in risky locations.

 

[BanditsRoost]

Starts off using words like Tricky - Slippery Slope - Purely Fun Related - than he goes on to say that once you share your video on Social Media someone could use it or sell it ...

So i said basically what your saying is the moment you want to share your video with anyone you need a 107 that includes Social Media .

"Correct he said.".

So what your saying is Fun videos should not be shared , "Correct "
But if i just look at them , than its ok , "Correct"

Hmmmm...
Surely that didn't mean all the wonderful videos shared on this forum leave the pilot in violation?