ID to Law Enforcement

[DavidGuidos]

The Arrested thread got me thinking. If you’re not doing anything wrong and are asked for ID by law enforcement, isn’t it illegal for them to divulge that information to a third party? It certainly seems like it should be a violation of your right to privacy. An arrest becomes part of public record, but a request for ID doesn’t (or at least it shouldn’t.)

I would probably show my ID whenever LE asks for it, just to avoid any hassle, but if another “interested party“ is standing there (like a nearby land owner who probably called LE) I would politely let the officer know that if my identification is passed to that other person, then I would take action against his/her department for violation of my privacy.

 

[tcope]

The Arrested thread got me thinking. If you’re not doing anything wrong and are asked for ID by law enforcement, isn’t it illegal for them to divulge that information to a third party? It certainly seems like it should be a violation of your right to privacy. An arrest becomes part of public record, but a request for ID doesn’t (or at least it shouldn’t.)

In your scenario you jumped from being asked to hem sharing that info. What happened in between? If you _voluntarily_ give your information there is nothing to prevent them from sharing it with another law enforcement agency. They just should not share it with the public. Laws are written to allow the info to be shared among law enforcement.

Edit: If a police report is filed, your information is usually public record at that point. So this is the decision that people need to make, voluntarily give up your information with the knowledge that it might be shared or don't, as long as it is not lawfully required. This is one reason why someone may not want to voluntarily give their ID.

 

[Mr. Salty]

The original Arrested thread was locked, BTW, because the OP eventually admitted he made up the entire scenario to get a rise out of people here.

 

[Mossiback]

... If you’re not doing anything wrong and are asked for ID by law enforcement, isn’t it illegal for them to divulge that information to a third party? ...

Since this is an international forum, it would depend on where you are.

 

[Olav van Gerven]

In most european countries (except for the UK), you are requiered by law to present an ID upon request. There has to be no RAS, though there has to be a reason to be contacted for. This readon can be a general check on people in the area or for whatever reason the LEO is interested in you. Failure to ID upon request in the Netherlands will will cost you € 95 (+ € 9 administration fee). You can be detained untill your ID is cleared.
In Germany likewise (but cheaper), in both countries you need a state isued ID, a driverslicence in Germany is not considered to be an ID. Same or similliar legislation in France, Belgium and other countries.

In the US, the ID-Laws differ from state to state. You have some "stop and ID States" where you are requiered to produce an ID upon request and failure to ID is a primairy offence, other states (like Texas) you don't have to ID unless you are lawfully arrested (PC 38.02). Giving a false ID though is under all circumstances arrestable. The problem is, if you don't ID, LEOs might arrest you (which is wrongfull arrest, but that is not your biggest problem then) and it can take you between several hours and days before you get released, when lucky with the charges dropped, when not with other charges (disorderly, obstruction etc). So or so, it will cost you a lot of time and money to get cleared, I know cases where people lost their job because of the arrest. And then, if you don't have the money to pay an attorney, you have no way to file a civil lawsuit against the city and/or the officers, so it won't bring you anything.

Therefore my advice: Being in Europe, Identify upon request but make no further statements. Being in the US, know the laws of the state you are in and act accordingly to them. Be sure what battles you not only like but also are able to fight, if you don't lke to loose your job or don't want to risk being arrested, then comply, ask for a supervisor and keep you mouth shut (5th amendment). Then you can fight the case if you have the money.

 

[AMann]

In the US, we now are required to show proof that a drone is registered if asked by FAA personnel or by law enforcement. It will be interesting to see what changes the FAA will mandate in the future to keep this quickly evolving technology and activity safe for the NAS.

 

[Deleted member 93449]

In most locations in the U.S. you are not required to provide I.D. unless you're suspected of committing or that you are about to commit a crime. Technically there is suppose to be some articulable, rational reason for that suspicion not just a hunch.

Why would you not want to provide I.D. "if you have nothing to hide"? Because you don't know what kind of report or database your name might end up in. Why would you not want to give permission to search your car "if you have nothing to hide"? Because you don't know what might have been left behind by someone that has been in your car and because it's your Constitutional right to be secure in your property and not have it searched without some reasonable suspicion or probably cause. Wars have been fought to gain and preserve those rights so we should so haphazardly forfeit them.

 

[tcope]

...or that you are about to commit a crime.

I saw that on Minority Report. In the real world, this is not true.

 

[kensteele]

The Arrested thread got me thinking. If you’re not doing anything wrong and are asked for ID by law enforcement, isn’t it illegal for them to divulge that information to a third party? It certainly seems like it should be a violation of your right to privacy. An arrest becomes part of public record, but a request for ID doesn’t (or at least it shouldn’t.)

I would probably show my ID whenever LE asks for it, just to avoid any hassle, but if another “interested party“ is standing there (like a nearby land owner who probably called LE) I would politely let the officer know that if my identification is passed to that other person, then I would take action against his/her department for violation of my privacy.

the police will most certainly provide someone else with your information. if you are flying over a ranch and the ranch owner calls the police and the police make contact with you standing at the city park, they will get your name and address and other information and they will drive back over the ranch owner and let them know exactly who is flying a drone over their property.

if you gave them your information willingly, if you consented, then you gave up your privacy rights. the police probably told you that he would keep your information secret but of course, he lied to you. the police probably told you that you must give your id for his police report because he got a complaint and if you believe that, it's your own fault.

 

[Deleted member 93449]

I saw that on Minority Report. In the real world, this is not true.

If you are standing by a car door with a coat hanger that has been straightened it could reasonable be argued that it is justification to reasonably believe you are about to break into the car.

 

[kensteele]

In your scenario you jumped from being asked to hem sharing that info. What happened in between? If you _voluntarily_ give your information there is nothing to prevent them from sharing it with another law enforcement agency. They just should not share it with the public. Laws are written to allow the info to be shared among law enforcement.

Edit: If a police report is filed, your information is usually public record at that point. So this is the decision that people need to make, voluntarily give up your information with the knowledge that it might be shared or don't, as long as it is not lawfully required. This is one reason why someone may not want to voluntarily give their ID.

correct, never give your information unless you are required to be law and it was demanded (not asked) by a peace officer. don't fall for the common tricks.

 

[kensteele]

Since this is an international forum, it would depend on where you are.

exactly, the laws are way way different in the usa than in most every other country on the planet.

 

[kensteele]

In most european countries (except for the UK), you are requiered by law to present an ID upon request. There has to be no RAS, though there has to be a reason to be contacted for. This readon can be a general check on people in the area or for whatever reason the LEO is interested in you. Failure to ID upon request in the Netherlands will will cost you € 95 (+ € 9 administration fee). You can be detained untill your ID is cleared.
In Germany likewise (but cheaper), in both countries you need a state isued ID, a driverslicence in Germany is not considered to be an ID. Same or similliar legislation in France, Belgium and other countries.

In the US, the ID-Laws differ from state to state. You have some "stop and ID States" where you are requiered to produce an ID upon request and failure to ID is a primairy offence, other states (like Texas) you don't have to ID unless you are lawfully arrested (PC 38.02). Giving a false ID though is under all circumstances arrestable. The problem is, if you don't ID, LEOs might arrest you (which is wrongfull arrest, but that is not your biggest problem then) and it can take you between several hours and days before you get released, when lucky with the charges dropped, when not with other charges (disorderly, obstruction etc). So or so, it will cost you a lot of time and money to get cleared, I know cases where people lost their job because of the arrest. And then, if you don't have the money to pay an attorney, you have no way to file a civil lawsuit against the city and/or the officers, so it won't bring you anything.

Therefore my advice: Being in Europe, Identify upon request but make no further statements. Being in the US, know the laws of the state you are in and act accordingly to them. Be sure what battles you not only like but also are able to fight, if you don't lke to loose your job or don't want to risk being arrested, then comply, ask for a supervisor and keep you mouth shut (5th amendment). Then you can fight the case if you have the money.

you got most of it right for the usa but many of the stop and id state still require the police to have reasonable articulable suspicious in order to demand a name/address (not always ID) and an explanation. citizens need to know the laws in their state and no one should ever give a false name.

if you don't id and you don't know what you are doing, you'll end up in trouble.
if you don't id and you know your rights, you'll be fine.

don't let the police lie to you or scare you into giving up your rights. they are really good at that if you don't have a spine, they will most definitely have you for lunch so to speak. always know which battles to fight but those battles becomes easier to fight when you know your rights AND how to apply them. if you don't, you need to comply for your own sake.

 

[kensteele]

In the US, we now are required to show proof that a drone is registered if asked by FAA personnel or by law enforcement. It will be interesting to see what changes the FAA will mandate in the future to keep this quickly evolving technology and activity safe for the NAS.

you're using the terms loosely "required" and "asked." which is exactly how i know what you are saying is not true. if a police officer asks, you can say "no." if a police officer demands, he better have a state or local law to back up his demands. the faa doesn't give orders to the police and the police don't enforce federal laws or take directions from the faa. so i know what you and i read on a piece of paper (from the faa) but how does that translate....to real life? it doesn't.

 

[kensteele]

In most locations in the U.S. you are not required to provide I.D. unless you're suspected of committing or that you are about to commit a crime. Technically there is suppose to be some articulable, rational reason for that suspicion not just a hunch.

Why would you not want to provide I.D. "if you have nothing to hide"? Because you don't know what kind of report or database your name might end up in. Why would you not want to give permission to search your car "if you have nothing to hide"? Because you don't know what might have been left behind by someone that has been in your car and because it's your Constitutional right to be secure in your property and not have it searched without some reasonable suspicion or probably cause. Wars have been fought to gain and preserve those rights so we should so haphazardly forfeit them.

absolutely 100%. it's called reasonable articulable suspicion and it is required in almost all states in order for police to detain you. you cannot be forced to id yourself unless you are detained and in many states, not unless you are arrested. there must be RAS that you have, or about to, or committing a crime and suspicious alone is not a crime.

never give consent. you lose most of your rights when you consent. know your state laws. if you are only required to give a name or explanation, do only the minimum when demanded. otherwise, "i don't answer questions." the police wouldn't be there unless they were seeking out a crime and if you haven't committed a crime, as far as you know the police shouldn't be there. don't help them because only bad things can happen. i'm not a lawyer so this isn't legal advice, you do what you need to do to help yourself and your family; i know what i'm going to do.

 

[AMann]

“The operator of the UAS must carry a Certificate of Aircraft Registration and make it available to law enforcement upon request. Operators may verify registration by carrying a paper copy or by showing an electronic registration.”

https://www.faa.gov/uas/resources/policy_library/media/FAA_UAS-PO_LEA_Guidance.pdf

 

[dirkclod]

And when you show you have that how is an LEO going to know it is really yours .
He's going to ask for a ID. Don't know about anywhere else but here for sure
but you're going to show it . If you don't Failure To Comply comes into my mind .
Then you open up a mess sure enough .
JMO

 

[Deleted member 93449]

And when you show you have that how is an LEO going to know it is really yours .
He's going to ask for a ID. Don't know about anywhere else but here for sure
but you're going to show it . If you don't Failure To Comply comes into my mind .
Then you open up a mess sure enough .
JMO

The regulation only says you have to display the registration. It doesn't say anything about crossing checking the information on the registration and unless a crime has been committed or there is reasonable suspicion that a crime is about to be committed presenting the registration satisfies the requirement of the regulation.

 

[dirkclod]

Say what you want I was just telling ya.
See it might be different up North but here in the South it works just a little different .
Not going to debate it like I said just telling ya.

 

[AMann]

And when you show you have that how is an LEO going to know it is really yours .
He's going to ask for a ID. Don't know about anywhere else but here for sure
but you're going to show it . If you don't Failure To Comply comes into my mind .
Then you open up a mess sure enough .
JMO

...And once your failure to comply happens, you get bracelets and a free PoPo UBER ride.

What a waste of everyone’s time and money, it’s easy enough to comply in a friendly way that might end up as a good educational opportunity for the LEO. I’d rather be flying than turning it into a bad day ...