ID to Law Enforcement

[Cheech Wizard]

Sorry Admins, I used a treble hook and got 3 at once.

 

[kensteele]

So, you are driving to a place to fly with no I.D.?

no, i leave my id in the car.

 

[Cheech Wizard]

I have NEVER had a problem with police in my town. I have talked with a few of them about drones. This Town doesn't want drones. Very wealthy. Now I have a couple friends in the PD and I have told them about the new laws. They told me if I was flying at a no fly posted park, beach, even schools when they are not in session, they would only tell me to leave if they got a complaint. I just happen to be a total normal person. If I can do it so can you.

 

[Cheech Wizard]

no, i leave my id in the car.

So, you DID have your ID on you, did you also have the FAA registration with your ID hidden in the vehicle?

 

[DroningOn]

So, you DID have your ID on you, did you also have the FAA registration with your ID hidden in the vehicle?

It doesn’t matter where his registration is. A local cop has no authority to demand to see it.

 

[BigAl07]

It doesn’t matter where his registration is. A local cop has no authority to demand to see it.

Yes he does. Why in the world do you think local LEO can't ask for sUAS registration?

 

[kensteele]

I have NEVER had a problem with police in my town. I have talked with a few of them about drones. This Town doesn't want drones. Very wealthy. Now I have a couple friends in the PD and I have told them about the new laws. They told me if I was flying at a no fly posted park, beach, even schools when they are not in session, they would only tell me to leave if they got a complaint. I just happen to be a total normal person. If I can do it so can you.

nice try. lol

the park is posted (obviously a state or local law) and the police told you to simply leave (without providing an id). i would comply with that immediately. so would 99.95% of the people in this thread.

why not provide an example in the context for this thread? maybe in your town that's all that would ever happen but we all live in different places and we all don't enjoy law-abiding police officers.

how about this: the park is not posted but a resident calls on the police to enforce a non-existent local law and the police tell you to leave and you are ready to walk away but the police stop you and say before you go, let me see some id? i need to know who we were talking to?

kensteele keeps walking. that's a fact in my state. they would have to grab me by the arm or tackle me to get me to stop. what i mean is "detain me." or if they have probable cause, arrest me. after i am detained or arrested, i comply with the law because that's what i do as a 100% law-abiding citizen. i'm not one of the 120% who goes over and above the law to make the police and the citizens feel good.

what would you do? no judgments. a man with a gun just told you to show him some id, i don't blame you if you gave him your id. it's a consentual contact and you're allowed to consent. if you feel like doing so will let you go home quicker and you feel reasonably sure you're not going to get a letter in the mail a month later, why not i guess?

 

[kensteele]

So, you DID have your ID on you, did you also have the FAA registration with your ID hidden in the vehicle?

no id on me, no registration on me. my id sticker is on my m2z.

 

[DroningOn]

Yes he does. Why in the world do you think local LEO can't ask for sUAS registration?

Because he doesn’t. He’s a local cop who only has the authority to enforce local/state laws.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I know of no city, county or state in this country that has enacted a drone registration mirror law. No law? Have a nice day officer

 

[kensteele]

Because he doesn’t. He’s a local cop who only has the authority to enforce local/state laws.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I know of no city, county or state in this country that has enacted a drone registration mirror law. No law? Have a nice day officer.

correct, no matter what the faa says, no state or local cops can demand to see the faa registration whether it's on the paperwork that you may or may not carry or the number on the sticker that you may or may not have applied to your drone.

 

[kensteele]

Yes he does. Why in the world do you think local LEO can't ask for sUAS registration?

if you can get a police officer to reply to your post that comes out and says state or local law permits him to demand (not ask) for suas registration without pc or without ras, i will from that day forward comply (if it's applicable to my state*) because that's what i do....obey the law.

*we understand there are state or local laws that as passed that declare you have to obey the federal law so for those, it might be applicable. even then, it's never going to fly less than ras or pc.

waiting for the local leo to chime in.

 

[DroningOn]

I was half way through writing basically the same thing that kensteele just said above so I’ll let his words speak for me.....

He is absolutely correct. There are many state laws that specifically reference federal law in their text. I happen to be in an industry that is heavily regulated at the federal level and my state law specifically says that I have to produce my license to a local LEO. That is where the authority comes from.

 

[Prmath]

In the US, we now are required to show proof that a drone is registered if asked by FAA personnel or by law enforcement. It will be interesting to see what changes the FAA will mandate in the future to keep this quickly evolving technology and activity safe for the NAS.

Is the fact that my FA # is visible on my aircraft, is that proof of registration?

 

[AMann]

Is the fact that my FA # is visible on my aircraft, is that proof of registration?

No, it specifically states that you have to carry a copy of the registration. I just keep one in my flight case.

 

[Deleted member 93449]

Interesting how many constitutional lawyers subscribe to this site. It is also interesting how many law enforcement experts we have here that have neither constitutional law training nor law enforcement training.

And, if the officer is responding to a call of "what-ever" and you happen to be the center of that call the officer does have the right to ask and you do have an obligation by most all states laws to answer. If you refuse to identify yourself you may end up booked as a "John Doe" and the judge will hold you until you are identified by prints or paper. We went through all of this several pages back.

Now, that said, the reality of it is the officer probably will not escalate this minor, drone flying, issue to that stage but if you want to get all "mr I know the law and you can't touch me" you may get introduced to the rear seat of the patrol vehicle which is, as we covered before, a legal detainment, until the officer can identify you.

I liked the response that "I don't have ID on me when I'm flying my drone". I hope you walked there because if you drive off you are in deep do-do.

I am also amazed how much bravado there is until the cuffs go on. Then you should hear the crying and whining.

Constitutional lawyer? No. Law enforcement officer? No. Is that a requirement to have some working knowledge of the Constitutional rights and freedoms we enjoy as American citizens? No. So put the sarcasm aside and appeal to expertise to have an informed discussion with just some average citizens. I don't have a law degree but I've spend 30+ years studying various aspects of the law so your attempt to talk down to me or anyone else expressing an informed opinion doesn't fly.

The officer can be responding to whatever but unless he has a reasonable, articulable suspicion that I'm involved in a crime he doesn't have a legal right to detain me, answer questions or force me to produce an ID. If he's having a bad enough day let him arrest me an book me as a John Doe. He'll find out my name when I sue the department and him personally for false arrest.

Now down to reality, if you're flying a drone the requirement is having the drone registration and presenting it. There is no requirement to provide any other ID. If the officer has nothing better to do with his time then go on a power trip making additional demands HE needs to have a reasonable, articulable suspicion that a crime has been or is being committed.

It's not bravado, it's not whining and it's not crying, it's knowing and valuing your rights, something you don't seem to appreciate since you consider any protest to a violation of those rights as whining and crying.

 

[CAG]

Be very careful assuming that local law enforcement does not have authority to enforce federal law. Many LEOs in various jurisdictions are "deputized" by the US Marshal's office or similar and can/will enforce federal statutes. In Arizona a police officer is certified when he/she completes training and is sworn in to enforce laws within the state of Arizona. If an officer stops you in Phoenix and he/she is from Chandler, he/she can arrest you the same as a Phoenix officer. Police officers in Arizona have full state wide jurisdiction.

Arizona has laws regulating drones and that can be enforced by ALL LEO in Arizona. Cities cannot pass laws that conflict with state.

 

[CAG]

Now down to reality, if you're flying a drone the requirement is having the drone registration and presenting it. There is no requirement to provide any other ID. If the officer has nothing better to do with his time then go on a power trip making additional demands HE needs to have a reasonable, articulable suspicion that a crime has been or is being committed.

If someone sent he/her there on a call, then it is not a power trip it is part of the job. Wake up, get real. Most all police officer are there to do a job. In most cases they are sent there or they would not be there. The discussion that follows his/her arrival will determine whether there is articulated (spell correctly) suspicion and things will go from there. We are human, doing a job, trying to make everyone happy. Get over yourself and try to help out so that the officer can move on to the next, probably more important call. Lordy, another law expert!

 

[DroningOn]

Be very careful assuming that local law enforcement does not have authority to enforce federal law. Many LEOs in various jurisdictions are "deputized" by the US Marshal's office or similar and can/will enforce federal statutes. In Arizona a police officer is certified when he/she completes training and is sworn in to enforce laws within the state of Arizona. If an officer stops you in Phoenix and he/she is from Chandler, he/she can arrest you the same as a Phoenix officer. Police officers in Arizona have full state wide jurisdiction.

Arizona has laws regulating drones and that can be enforced by ALL LEO in Arizona. Cities cannot pass laws that conflict with state.

Most metropolitan areas and some states went nonjurisdictional many many years ago. This is not news

 

[kensteele]

I was half way through writing basically the same thing that kensteele just said above so I’ll let his words speak for me.....

He is absolutely correct. There are many state laws that specifically reference federal law in their text. I happen to be in an industry that is heavily regulated at the federal level and my state law specifically says that I have to produce my license to a local LEO. That is where the authority comes from.

agree but i think you left the part out about the leo demand is only lawful when it is supported by investigative detention or arrest. only with those can leo demand otherwise they ask to which you can say nothing or no. if in fact, the law states that leo can demand on just casual or censentual contact then there cannot be any criminal penalties associate with that. in other words, you lose your federal privileges or you are not allowed entry, told to leave and if you don't, etc but it can't be interfering with law enforcement, failure to comply, obstructions, etc. otherwise, we have nazi germany where the police can come up to you, demand your paper, jail you if you don't have them on you. not saying those laws don't exist somewhere in the us but if they do, they are unconstitutional. maybe your library says leo can demand a library card if they see you with a library book. fine (no pun intended), you refuse to show the card, you lose your library privileges.

if you are in the industry then you need to obey the industry rules and laws. just know, every citizen in the state/city is not in the industry by default. again, i find it hard to believe because a driver's license is a state instrument and has plenty of state laws around it but no police officer can demand a driver's license without ras or pc or an infraction in any state (for the most part). not sure how the federal involvement elevates the state powers or else a state can simply pass one law that says "state citizens obey ALL federal laws." why would we need federal law enforcement? imagine if federal law enforcement can enforce state and local laws.

 

[DroningOn]

Get over yourself and try to help out so that the officer can move on to the next, probably more important call. Lordy, another law expert!

If you ask me what direction the gangbanger with the gun went, of course I will tell you. If after pulling me over, you ask me “do you know why I pulled you over?“ Then I am not saying anything and I will just hand you my license and registration. It’s really this simple