ID to Law Enforcement

[Deleted member 93449]

If someone sent he/her there on a call, then it is not a power trip it is part of the job. Wake up, get real. Most all police officer are there to do a job. In most cases they are sent there or they would not be there. The discussion that follows his/her arrival will determine whether there is articulated (spell correctly) suspicion and things will go from there. We are human, doing a job, trying to make everyone happy. Get over yourself and try to help out so that the officer can move on to the next, probably more important call. Lordy, another law expert!

You're going to have to be a lot more precise. A call about what? Yes, police officers are there to do a job. Do you know what that job is? It's to protect the rights of citizens from being violated.

As far as your comment "The discussion that follows his/her arrival will determine whether there is articulated suspicion" demonstrates a lack of understand of the law. I don't have to answer questions and he/she has no right to detain me UNLESS they already have an articulable suspicion that I have or am about to commit a crime. As a citizen you're under no obligation to help them develop an articulable suspicion, especially a suspicion of your personal involvement in a crime.

 

[kensteele]

Be very careful assuming that local law enforcement does not have authority to enforce federal law. Many LEOs in various jurisdictions are "deputized" by the US Marshal's office or similar and can/will enforce federal statutes. In Arizona a police officer is certified when he/she completes training and is sworn in to enforce laws within the state of Arizona. If an officer stops you in Phoenix and he/she is from Chandler, he/she can arrest you the same as a Phoenix officer. Police officers in Arizona have full state wide jurisdiction.

Arizona has laws regulating drones and that can be enforced by ALL LEO in Arizona. Cities cannot pass laws that conflict with state.

very true in many jurisdictions. many police agencies have duties across cities and statewide and sometimes even across state lines where it becomes federal. if there is a city police squad that is part of the federal drone task force pulled together for the next 6 months to fight drone crime, you should comply. since we don't have secret police who are out to trap law-abiding citizens, we won't have a problem when you meet them; you'll know it.

like i said, i start walking and if you are a deputized cop, all you have to do is legally detain me which you have the right to do if you can enforce federal law. i'll show my id. city cops who don't have us marshal powers either won't dare detain me unlawfully because they are honest or they will legally detain me using their marshal powers (plus pc/ras) and they get the id (name and address, maybe i go into my locked phone and find something for them). all other situations, we know how to deal with it. all i am saying is i don't consent to showing id, how much more simple can it be?

the law is not a gotcha. a city cop with federal credentials back in his office is not going to be able to go around catching citizens off guard who are only exercising their rights. if i violate the law, cite or arrest me. otherwise, there is no defacto you did it all wrong, you didn't know who you were taling to, etc, you're under arrest situation which is so often called out here. if the law is so complex and difficult to navigate, my suggestion is learn it or else cave in to it and do the lower denomination. many decades i've come this far, no problems.

 

[ajwilson]

Nobody cares about drones unless they are a nuisance. I doubt ANY LEO would do anything other than ask you to move on. No one is going to ask for FAA registration. most LEOs don’t even know about it.

Bottom line is don’t be a ****, fly responsibly and where your supposed to and nobody cares....

Let’s talk about something else..

 

[Cheech Wizard]

nice try. lol

the park is posted (obviously a state or local law) and the police told you to simply leave (without providing an id). i would comply with that immediately. so would 99.95% of the people in this thread.

why not provide an example in the context for this thread? maybe in your town that's all that would ever happen but we all live in different places and we all don't enjoy law-abiding police officers.

how about this: the park is not posted but a resident calls on the police to enforce a non-existent local law and the police tell you to leave and you are ready to walk away but the police stop you and say before you go, let me see some id? i need to know who we were talking to?

kensteele keeps walking. that's a fact in my state. they would have to grab me by the arm or tackle me to get me to stop. what i mean is "detain me." or if they have probable cause, arrest me. after i am detained or arrested, i comply with the law because that's what i do as a 100% law-abiding citizen. i'm not one of the 120% who goes over and above the law to make the police and the citizens feel good.

what would you do? no judgments. a man with a gun just told you to show him some id, i don't blame you if you gave him your id. it's a consentual contact and you're allowed to consent. if you feel like doing so will let you go home quicker and you feel reasonably sure you're not going to get a letter in the mail a month later, why not i guess?

What I said was "The cop told me he would only tell me to leave if he got a complaint" Implying that I can fly anywhere and even come back to a spot I was asked to leave BECAUSE OF A COMPLAINT. You just wasted a bunch of keystrokes.

 

[Cheech Wizard]

Is the fact that my FA # is visible on my aircraft, is that proof of registration?

If they check with the FAA.

 

[Cheech Wizard]

I'm a 60 year old man... I am not afraid of my local PD like 3 or 4 of you seem to be. Grow up. I drink coffee and shoot the crap with them in convenience stores. They asked me about the drone and actually hung around while I sent it up and took them on a tour around town. And then I informed them of the new laws, so if you come to my town, you better do it properly.

 

[DroningOn]

I am not afraid of my local PD like 3 or 4 of you seem to be.

Really?? You think this discussion is all about being “afraid of my local PD”? Unbelievable

 

[Cheech Wizard]

Really?? You think this discussion is all about being “afraid of my local PD”? Unbelievable

I don't know what your problem is. You really don't make much sense as usual. Dronning on and on and on about what you are going to do if a police officer asks you for ID. So let me get this straight... you're NOT going to show the officer. Is that right so far? But if they are going to make you John Doe, and haul you in you will comply... Is that about it? ?

 

[kensteele]

I'm a 60 year old man... I am not afraid of my local PD like 3 or 4 of you seem to be. Grow up. I drink coffee and shoot the crap with them in convenience stores. They asked me about the drone and actually hung around while I sent it up and took them on a tour around town. And then I informed them of the new laws, so if you come to my town, you better do it properly.

wish i had it like that.

 

[kensteele]

I don't know what your problem is. You really don't make much sense as usual. Dronning on and on and on about what you are going to do if a police officer asks you for ID. So let me get this straight... you're NOT going to show the officer. Is that right so far? But if they are going to make you John Doe, and haul you in you will comply... Is that about it? ?

you keep saying haul you in but you never site the law that was broken. if you get handcuffed and taken to jail (in america) in any example we've talked about so far, pick one, what is the criminal complaint?

you're probably going to say "failure to id." LOL LOL

 

[kensteele]

Nobody cares about drones unless they are a nuisance. I doubt ANY LEO would do anything other than ask you to move on. No one is going to ask for FAA registration. most LEOs don’t even know about it.

Bottom line is don’t be a ****, fly responsibly and where your supposed to and nobody cares....

Let’s talk about something else..

i agree. so why would the faa bother to write such trivial dribble in their regulations, this nonsense about providing id to law enforcement, blah blah blah. why would they waste their time putting that in there if no one is going to bother to ask? would you be ok with the faa removing it if it's all to do about nothing? i'm trying to get them to remove it, if it's so important, why are you blocking me instead of supporting me?

i would be ok if they changed it to read something along the lines of leo should "ask" for id and registration.

 

[Cheech Wizard]

you keep saying haul you in but you never site the law that was broken. if you get handcuffed and taken to jail (in america) in any example we've talked about so far, pick one, what is the criminal complaint?

you're probably going to say "failure to id." LOL LOL

Well, yeah... just by not showing your ID, you are a suspicious character.
I really hate to say this, but you could get shot. Keep your hands in VLOS, keep your voice calm and keep all of your cameras running as evidence.

 

[kensteele]

Well, yeah... just by not showing your ID, you are a suspicious character.

wow. ?

so is "suspicious character" a felony or a misdemeanor?

btw, i didn't not show my id. i don't carry my papers with me.

seriously, i checked the CT statutes over and over and over. i cannot find anything that says you can be arrested for being a suspicious character. how are you comfortable living in that state knowing it is possible for leo to establish probable cause for arrest for a statute that doesn't even exist? doesn't that make you nervous?

 

[Cheech Wizard]

wow. ?

so is "suspicious character" a felony or a misdemeanor?

btw, i didn't not show my id. i don't carry my papers with me.

seriously, i checked the CT statutes over and over and over. i cannot find anything that says you can be arrested for being a suspicious character. how are you comfortable living in that state knowing it is possible for leo to establish probable cause for arrest for a statute that doesn't even exist? doesn't that make you nervous?

Not one little bit, I'm not paranoid.

 

[Hauptmann]

I live in Texas, where a citizen is not required to show ID to an LE unless under arrest. But I would NEVER refuse to show my ID to a peace officer in Texas or any other state or country. Cooperating with police is part of being a good citizen. If a peace officer ever ordered me to stop, or raise my hands, I would do so immediately. I believe that if others would do the same instead of resisting or trying to run away, there would be fewer officer-involved shootings.

 

[kensteele]

I live in Texas, where a citizen is not required to show ID to an LE unless under arrest. But I would NEVER refuse to show my ID to a peace officer in Texas or any other state or country. Cooperating with police is part of being a good citizen. If a peace officer ever ordered me to stop, or raise my hands, I would do so immediately. I believe that if others would do the same instead of resisting or trying to run away, there would be fewer officer-involved shootings.

funny how you worship the law enforcement officer that doesn't obey the law.
you just said it, per the law, you are not required.
yet if a law enforcement officer required you before arrest, that law enforcement officer is "breaking the law."
but your ok with police breaking the law as long as citizens don't break the law like "running away" since there is a law in texas that says citizens are not allowed to run away from police. then you look down on your fellow texans, right?
i'm assuming you are ok with it, not because you raised your hands (we all would) but because not once did you mention anything negative about it; it almost seems like you appreciate the police giving you unlawful orders and your tone indicates you don't mind it at all. personally i would be furious.

look it's your choice. i'm fine that that. but why can't you be fine with my choice too since it's legal, too? if the police say stop or raise your hands, any citizen should know and might feel that they are being detained so yes, even i would do it. doesn't make sense to do otherwise. i think you are talking to the wrong crowd, none of us here have ever had police pull a gun on us...i don't think.

 

[Cheech Wizard]

I live in Texas, where a citizen is not required to show ID to an LE unless under arrest. But I would NEVER refuse to show my ID to a peace officer in Texas or any other state or country. Cooperating with police is part of being a good citizen. If a peace officer ever ordered me to stop, or raise my hands, I would do so immediately. I believe that if others would do the same instead of resisting or trying to run away, there would be fewer officer-involved shootings.

Absolutely Sir, kind of a no brainer. Thank you for pointing out that we are all citizens. And as citizens we should respect and help our fellow citizens. Oh, yeah, the Police are also citizens with families and such. Somebody some day is going to get shot for cracking wise to a police officer and that is not worth flying a drone AND being belligerent. "Pride" isn't worth dying for.

 

[Prmath]

I live in Texas, where a citizen is not required to show ID to an LE unless under arrest. But I would NEVER refuse to show my ID to a peace officer in Texas or any other state or country. Cooperating with police is part of being a good citizen. If a peace officer ever ordered me to stop, or raise my hands, I would do so immediately. I believe that if others would do the same instead of resisting or trying to run away, there would be fewer officer-involved shootings.

Just just this Simple

 

[Deleted member 93449]

Absolutely Sir, kind of a no brainer. Thank you for pointing out that we are all citizens. And as citizens we should respect and help our fellow citizens. Oh, yeah, the Police are also citizens with families and such. Somebody some day is going to get shot for cracking wise to a police officer and that is not worth flying a drone AND being belligerent. "Pride" isn't worth dying for.

You've got the whole issue turned upside down. The first responsibility of a police officer is to honor the LAW and the Constitutional rights of citizens. They can "ask" for ID BUT should respect your RIGHT to refuse to provide ID in a situation where ID is not required by law. I'll respect your position of authority IF you'll agree to respect my rights and freedom as a U.S. citizen.

This isn't a matter of disrespect for LE. I'll be at a delayed 4th of July celebration tomorrow at the home of two relatives, both are NYPD officers, a couple of the numerous LEO's in my family. I've worked, trained and trained with LEO's from all over the country, local, state and federal. The issue has nothing to do with a disregard for the job they do but putting the emphases on why they are hired to do what they do, which is protect the rights and freedoms of citizens.

 

[Cheech Wizard]

View attachment 77031Just just this Simple

I know right? The only 3 or 4 people that ate my worm (I sight fish...ha) say the y won't surrender their ID to an Officer, I wonder what the tough Drone Bros will really do.