If possible I need a quick answer...

[Josiah S]

Howdy, I was wondering if it is all right for me to launch my drone from a hotel that we are staying at parking lot and then fly up and away over Chicago. If possible I need a quick reply, thanks. My question is, is it all right for me to take off from a hotel parking lot. I checked Aloft and DJI map and we are in a "recommended zone" Thanks in advance.

 

[hiflyer201]

You're going to have a 400 ft. altitude restriction when you launch from ground level. If you're in a clear zone why not?!

 

[Olav van Gerven]

The parkinglot probably is privat property, that might be a problem.

"Up and away over Chicago" indicates flying BVLOS, which is as far as I know not permitted

 

[Meta4]

Howdy, I was wondering if it is all right for me to launch my drone from a hotel that we are staying at parking lot and then fly up and away over Chicago. If possible I need a quick reply, thanks. My question is, is it all right for me to take off from a hotel parking lot. I checked Aloft and DJI map and we are in a "recommended zone" Thanks in advance.

Launching from reinforced concrete structures can cause big problems.
Make sure the drone is not launched from the concrete surface.
Can you find a box or similar to give >1ft separation?

 

[Chaosrider]

You're going to have a 400 ft. altitude restriction when you launch from ground level. If you're in a clear zone why not?!

You could get around the 400 ft restriction if you launched from the roof, rather than from the parking lot...

Always fly legally, of course.

TCS

 

[Malcx]

You could get around the 400 ft restriction if you launched from the roof, rather than from the parking lot...

Always fly legally, of course.

TCS

How does that get over the 400ft restriction? It's 400ft AGL where the drone physically is, not from launch point.

 

[Chaosrider]

How does that get over the 400ft restriction? It's 400ft AGL where the drone physically is, not from launch point.

Yes, I was thinking about the default SW restriction of 400 ft, which you can disable anyway as far as the SW is concerned. So there wasn't much significance to my obserervation from that perspective!

I was very involved with the LSA/Sport Pilot start-up and implmentation. I owned two different types of LSA, at different times. Also, I've been flying in the mountains my entire flying career.

The LSA regime has a rule that you can't fly above 10,000 ft MSL *EXCEPT* that you're allowed to fly higher than that, as long as you remain below 3000 ft *AGL*. I may have mis-remembered some of the specifics, but it's basically that.

What counts as "AGL" when you're flying over a bunch of mountains and canyons? It would be both unreasonable and unsafe to expect someone to fly in direct AGL lockstep with slopes no fixed wing airplane could ever match.

So, I called someone up about it, either the FAA or AOPA. If you look on a standard sectional chart, there's a bold number called the "Maximum Elevation Figure" for each quadrangle. It's the highest elevation within that quadrangle, rounded up to the nearest 100 ft. It's sometimes called the "obstrution free" altitude.

I asked if I could use that as "ground level" for the AGL calculation, for each quadrangle that I was flying in. I was told yes.

I don't know if that issue is called out specifically for drones. Like so many "one size fits all" things that government does, it looks pretty clear that the drone regs were mostly written by flatlanders living in cities. It's different, in the rural mountain west.



TCS

 

[MA2 317]

Maybe I'm missing something... ?

AGL = Above Ground Level.

From what I understand as a hobbyist pilot, the Ground is the Earth, not the structure built on it.


.

 

[Rich QR]

MA2 317" data-source="post: 1280287" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Maybe I'm missing something... ?

AGL = Above Ground Level.

From what I understand as a hobbyist pilot, the Ground is the Earth, not the structure built on it.

Correct. And what ground are they talking about? The ground underneath the aircraft. Not a nearby hill, not the takeoff point.

However, part 107 pilots may fly up to 400' above the top point of a sructure within 400' horizontally of the aircraft, so those with a Part 107 certificate are not always limited to 400' AGL. In a place like downtown Chicago, this difference could be significant.

The height displayed by DJI drones is always the height above takeoff point, and the takeoff point is never relevant to any height restrictions in the rules. That sometimes causes some confusion. Occasionally, if you happen to be flying above ground that is at the same elevation as your takeoff point, the height displayed on your screen may be pretty close to your height AGL. But under other conditions, it isn't.

 

[sar104]

I asked if I could use that as "ground level" for the AGL calculation, for each quadrangle that I was flying in. I was told yes.

Strangely enough, you were told complete nonsense.

 

[MARK (LI)]

If you take off at the edge of a cliff...you can go 400 feet straight up...in the opposite direction from the cliff.....if the cliff is ...say 500 feet high...the moment you go over the edge of the cliff you are above the allowed altitude ..when you come across a structure you can fly 400 feet above that building..and I do not believe that it only allows 107 holders to do that...even recreational flyers can go 400 feet above a structure...starting at 400 feet away from the structure
In response to the original poster's question....you do need to secure permission from the Hotel to launch from there....they own the property...it is their right to refuse you permisision ....and when you say you want to fly up and away over the city...it does sound as though you will be flying beyond your ability to see your drone...do you realize that you are supposed to keep it in sight?

 

[sar104]

If you take off at the edge of a cliff...you can go 400 feet straight up...in the opposite direction from the cliff.....if the cliff is ...say 500 feet high...the moment you go over the edge of the cliff you are above the allowed altitude ..when you come across a structure you can fly 400 feet above that building..and I do not believe that it only allows 107 holders to do that...even recreational flyers can go 400 feet above a structure...starting at 400 feet away from the structure
In response to the original poster's question....you do need to secure permission from the Hotel to launch from there....they own the property...it is their right to refuse you permisision ....and when you say you want to fly up and away over the city...it does sound as though you will be flying beyond your ability to see your drone...do you realize that you are supposed to keep it in sight?

Beliefs don't matter. Part 107 explicitly allows flights up to 400 ft above a structure. The recreational exception does not.

§107.51 Operating limitations for small unmanned aircraft.​

A remote pilot in command and the person manipulating the flight controls of the small unmanned aircraft system must comply with all of the following operating limitations when operating a small unmanned aircraft system:​

​

(b) The altitude of the small unmanned aircraft cannot be higher than 400 feet above ground level, unless the small unmanned aircraft:​

​

(1) Is flown within a 400-foot radius of a structure; and​

​

(2) Does not fly higher than 400 feet above the structure's immediate uppermost limit.​

§44809. Exception for limited recreational operations of unmanned aircraft​

​

(a) In General.—Except as provided in subsection (e), and notwithstanding chapter 447 of title 49, United States Code, a person may operate a small unmanned aircraft without specific certification or operating authority from the Federal Aviation Administration if the operation adheres to all of the following limitations:​

​

(6) In Class G airspace, the aircraft is flown from the surface to not more than 400 feet above ground level and complies with all airspace restrictions and prohibitions.​

 

[MARK (LI)]

Thank you for making that 400 foot ruling clear

 

[lilewis]

My guess to your original question is that the hotel management would likely not approve of a guest flying a drone from their parking lot. They would likely have liability concerns.

Actually, I wouldn't fly from any 'open for business' hotel or any other business parking lot unless it was OK with the management. On the other hand, I have no issues with flying out of large parking lots if the business is closed and the parking lot is empty. or even school baseball fields when the schools are closed.

 

[tlswift58]

Howdy, I was wondering if it is all right for me to launch my drone from a hotel that we are staying at parking lot and then fly up and away over Chicago. If possible I need a quick reply, thanks. My question is, is it all right for me to take off from a hotel parking lot. I checked Aloft and DJI map and we are in a "recommended zone" Thanks in advance.

Have to question "WH"Y when you post - it's always urgent? Really? If the apps say it's clear to fly - then fly. Yet, in Chi-town - lots of very tall buildings and depending on where you are - they may pose a real problem keeping a connection. But hey, I've flown from the roof of a hotel and didn't have a problem, but no skyscrapers like in big cities like Chicago.

 

[Rockgrip]

Howdy, I was wondering if it is all right for me to launch my drone from a hotel that we are staying at parking lot and then fly up and away over Chicago. If possible I need a quick reply, thanks. My question is, is it all right for me to take off from a hotel parking lot. I checked Aloft and DJI map and we are in a "recommended zone" Thanks in advance.

Flying “up and away” over Chicago may put your drone directly over people in such a extensively populated area, which is, to put it mildly, frowned upon by local authorities as well as the FAA.

 

[jeffcutler]

Yes, I was thinking about the default SW restriction of 400 ft, which you can disable anyway as far as the SW is concerned. So there wasn't much significance to my obserervation from that perspective!

I was very involved with the LSA/Sport Pilot start-up and implmentation. I owned two different types of LSA, at different times. Also, I've been flying in the mountains my entire flying career.

The LSA regime has a rule that you can't fly above 10,000 ft MSL *EXCEPT* that you're allowed to fly higher than that, as long as you remain below 3000 ft *AGL*. I may have mis-remembered some of the specifics, but it's basically that.

What counts as "AGL" when you're flying over a bunch of mountains and canyons? It would be both unreasonable and unsafe to expect someone to fly in direct AGL lockstep with slopes no fixed wing airplane could ever match.

So, I called someone up about it, either the FAA or AOPA. If you look on a standard sectional chart, there's a bold number called the "Maximum Elevation Figure" for each quadrangle. It's the highest elevation within that quadrangle, rounded up to the nearest 100 ft. It's sometimes called the "obstrution free" altitude.

I asked if I could use that as "ground level" for the AGL calculation, for each quadrangle that I was flying in. I was told yes.

I don't know if that issue is called out specifically for drones. Like so many "one size fits all" things that government does, it looks pretty clear that the drone regs were mostly written by flatlanders living in cities. It's different, in the rural mountain west.



TCS

I think I love this. And I fear I may have already been doing this inadvertently for almost four years now as a part 107 holder. I have (since 2017) planned my launch site for missions on the highest area within a comfortable VLOS range. Then I would go to that point and launch from there, 'knowing' that I could fly at the 400-foot level AGL on that point. If your quadrangle permission/info is legit, I'm breathing easier now and calling myself a genius for intuiting what should be written in plain language somewhere.

Thanks for this!

 

[sar104]

I think I love this. And I fear I may have already been doing this inadvertently for almost four years now as a part 107 holder. I have (since 2017) planned my launch site for missions on the highest area within a comfortable VLOS range. Then I would go to that point and launch from there, 'knowing' that I could fly at the 400-foot level AGL on that point. If your quadrangle permission/info is legit, I'm breathing easier now and calling myself a genius for intuiting what should be written in plain language somewhere.

Thanks for this!

Unfortunately that's simply incorrect. The height restriction is 400 ft AGL below the aircraft, not above the launch point. The advice quoted above is total nonsense. How on earth did you manage to pass Part 107?

 

[jeffcutler]

Unfortunately that's simply incorrect. The height restriction is 400 ft AGL below the aircraft, not above the launch point. The advice quoted above is total nonsense. How on earth did you manage to pass Part 107?

Never said I flew above 400, just said I'd be breathing easier. Mostly because I don't laser focus on my altitude during my real estate work. I get up to a good visual level and then stay there except to avoid obstacles.

In 200 missions, I can count on one finger the times I've been above 400ft. To avoid a hawk and I went to 418 and he left me alone.

So, while my comment was enthusiastic about the possibility of a quadrant of a rolling area defaulting to the highest allowable AGL, I truly wouldn't randomly do it without verifying. Also, in my 200 missions, about 94% of them never require me going above 200 feet. But thanks for keeping me in line. Passed the 107 three times now.

Image is about my standard height. That shot is in BOS class B airspace at the end of Hull, MA with LAANC authorization to 150 ft.

 

[Meta4]

I would go to that point and launch from there, 'knowing' that I could fly at the 400-foot level AGL on that point.

That kind of thinking would have one of these flyers breaking the rules even though their drones are in the same place.