Insurance For Part 107 Certified Pilot

[FlierX]

Are there policies out there, whether through State Farm or other companies, for someone with a Part 107 certification? I do not have it yet but I am working on it and hope to take the test within the next couple of weeks. What happens if I insure it though State Farm through a Personal Articles Policy, get my certification, and then have to file a claim? Will they cover it?

Thanks.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Are there policies out there, whether through State Farm or other companies, for someone with a Part 107 certification? I do not have it yet but I am working on it and hope to take the test within the next couple of weeks. What happens if I insure it though State Farm through a Personal Articles Policy, get my certification, and then have to file a claim? Will they cover it?

Thanks.

Should be fine, as long as not used for business. Most recreational fliers technically need a Part 107 anyway.

 

[HoozierDroneDaddy]

State Farm has said they will not cover any drone used for commercial work (Part 107). They further explained that even if you are flying for a Hobby, IF the drone in question has ever been used for commercial work, they will not pay. So if you get a Personal Articles Policy now, you will be covered, but once you get your Part 107, they will no longer pay any claims. So if you get a drone and insure it through SF, and you want to keep that coverage, don't use that drone for any commercial work. If you do get a SF policy, I would have them spell out in writing what they will allow for the drone covered.

 

[GadgetGuy]

State Farm has said they will not cover any drone used for commercial work (Part 107). They further explained that even if you are flying for a Hobby, IF the drone in question has ever been used for commercial work, they will not pay. So if you get a Personal Articles Policy now, you will be covered, but once you get your Part 107, they will no longer pay any claims. So if you get a drone and insure it through SF, and you want to keep that coverage, don't use that drone for any commercial work. If you do get a SF policy, I would have them spell out in writing what they will allow for the drone covered.

Since Part 107 is no longer synonymous with commercial work, given that most recreational flyers technically should be flying under Part 107, should there be a claim, the burden would be on State Farm to prove you had or were flying commercially to deny coverage. I agree, though, don't use it for commercial work.

 

[JCapps]

Should be fine, as long as not used for business. Most recreational fliers technically need a Part 107 anyway.

Since Part 107 is no longer synonymous with commercial work, given that most recreational flyers technically should be flying under Part 107, should there be a claim, the burden would be on State Farm to prove you had or were flying commercially to deny coverage. I agree, though, don't use it for commercial work.

Twice you have mentioned that most recreational flyers technically need to or should be under part 107. Can you explain to me why you said this? Just curious as I only fly recreationally and have no plans at this point to get my part 107. Am I missing something?

 

[GadgetGuy]

Twice you have mentioned that most recreational flyers technically need to or should be under part 107. Can you explain to me why you said this? Just curious as I only fly recreationally and have no plans at this point to get my part 107. Am I missing something?

Because the "carve out" exception to part 107 for recreational flyers is so narrow that most hobbyists inevitably end up violating it at some point in time. Unless you have complied with ALL of the requirements for recreational flying on every flight, you require a Part 107, because you have violated the carve out.

Compensation is not the determinative factor.

"Many people assume that a recreational flight simply means not flying for a business or being compensated. But, that's not always the case. Compensation, or the lack of it, is not what determines if a flight was recreational or not. Before you fly your drone, you need to know which regulations apply to your flight."

Recreational Flyers & Community-Based Organizations | Federal Aviation Administration

Did your drone registration expire or does it expire soon? The DroneZone is the FAA's official website for registration. If you are having trouble logging into the DroneZone, you may need to reset your password (PDF).

www.faa.gov

What are the Rules for Recreational Flyers?​

The Exception for Limited Recreational Operations of Unmanned Aircraft (USC 44809) is the law that describes how, when, and where you can fly drones for recreational purposes. Following these rules helps keep people, your drone and our airspace safe:

1. Fly only for recreational purposes (personal enjoyment).
2. Follow the safety guidelines of an FAA-recognized Community Based Organization(CBO).
   For more information on how to become an FAA-recognized CBO, read Advisory Circular 91-57C.
3. Keep your drone within the visual line of sight or use a visual observer who is co-located (physically next to) and in direct communication with you.
4. Give way to and do not interfere with other aircraft.
5. Fly at or below FAA-authorized altitudes in controlled airspace (Class B, C, D, and surface Class E designated for an airport) only with prior FAA authorization by using LAANC or DroneZone.
6. Fly at or below 400 feet in Class G (uncontrolled) airspace.
   Note: Anyone flying a drone in the U.S. National Airspace System (NAS) is responsible for flying within the FAA guidelines and regulations. That means it is up to you as a drone pilot to know the rules: Where Can I Fly?
7. Take The Recreational UAS Safety Test (TRUST) and carry proof of test passage when flying.
8. Have a current FAA registration, mark (PDF) your drones on the outside with the registration number, and carry proof of registration with you when flying.
   Note: Beginning September 16, 2023, if your drone requires an FAA registration number it will also be required to broadcast Remote ID information (unless flown within a FRIA). For more information on drone registration, visit How to Register Your Drone.
9. Do not operate your drone in a manner that endangers the safety of the national airspace system.

Obvious examples of a violation of Rules for Recreational Flyers: Not having your TRUST certificate not on you, or never passing the TRUST exam, flying BVLOS, flying for any reason other than "fun," not following ALL the separate safety guidelines of your chosen CBO, not flying within the FAA guidelines and regulations, flying above 400 feet AGL in Class G airspace, not having registered yourself as a recreational pilot with the FAA, not having your pilot registration on you, not having your FAA pilot registration number on your drone, not broadcasting RID, or operating in any manner deemed to be endangering the safety of the national air space.

Do any of those and you are now guilty of the separate violation of not having obtained a Part 107, because you no longer qualify for the recreational flyer "carve out" from the requirement to have a Part 107.

 

[JCapps]

Because the "carve out" exception to part 107 for recreational flyers is so narrow that most hobbyists inevitably end up violating it at some point in time. Unless you have complied with ALL of the requirements for recreational flying on every flight, you require a Part 107, because you have violated the carve out.

Compensation is not the determinative factor.

"Many people assume that a recreational flight simply means not flying for a business or being compensated. But, that's not always the case. Compensation, or the lack of it, is not what determines if a flight was recreational or not. Before you fly your drone, you need to know which regulations apply to your flight."

Recreational Flyers & Community-Based Organizations | Federal Aviation Administration

Did your drone registration expire or does it expire soon? The DroneZone is the FAA's official website for registration. If you are having trouble logging into the DroneZone, you may need to reset your password (PDF).

www.faa.gov

What are the Rules for Recreational Flyers?​

The Exception for Limited Recreational Operations of Unmanned Aircraft (USC 44809) is the law that describes how, when, and where you can fly drones for recreational purposes. Following these rules helps keep people, your drone and our airspace safe:

1. Fly only for recreational purposes (personal enjoyment).
2. Follow the safety guidelines of an FAA-recognized Community Based Organization(CBO).
   For more information on how to become an FAA-recognized CBO, read Advisory Circular 91-57C.
3. Keep your drone within the visual line of sight or use a visual observer who is co-located (physically next to) and in direct communication with you.
4. Give way to and do not interfere with other aircraft.
5. Fly at or below FAA-authorized altitudes in controlled airspace (Class B, C, D, and surface Class E designated for an airport) only with prior FAA authorization by using LAANC or DroneZone.
6. Fly at or below 400 feet in Class G (uncontrolled) airspace.
   Note: Anyone flying a drone in the U.S. National Airspace System (NAS) is responsible for flying within the FAA guidelines and regulations. That means it is up to you as a drone pilot to know the rules: Where Can I Fly?
7. Take The Recreational UAS Safety Test (TRUST) and carry proof of test passage when flying.
8. Have a current FAA registration, mark (PDF) your drones on the outside with the registration number, and carry proof of registration with you when flying.
   Note: Beginning September 16, 2023, if your drone requires an FAA registration number it will also be required to broadcast Remote ID information (unless flown within a FRIA). For more information on drone registration, visit How to Register Your Drone.
9. Do not operate your drone in a manner that endangers the safety of the national airspace system.

Obvious examples of a violation of Rules for Recreational Flyers: Not having your TRUST certificate not on you, or never passing the TRUST exam, flying BVLOS, flying for any reason other than "fun," not following ALL the separate safety guidelines of your chosen CBO, not flying within the FAA guidelines and regulations, flying above 400 feet AGL in Class G airspace, not having registered yourself as a recreational pilot with the FAA, not having your pilot registration on you, not having your FAA pilot registration number on your drone, not broadcasting RID, or operating in any manner deemed to be endangering the safety of the national air space.

Do any of those and you are now guilty of the separate violation of not having obtained a Part 107, because you no longer qualify for the recreational flyer "carve out" from the requirement to have a Part 107.

I appreciate your reply but honestly I thought those same rules applied to people who have their part 107 but I'm assuming there may be exceptions to the rule that I'm unaware of since I don't have my part 107. At this time I really don't have the need for a part 107 as I simply fly for recreation. I take my drone with me when I travel and only use the footage for my personal use. I follow the above listed rules and simply save the footage to document my trips just like I save the pics on my phone for the same reason. Sometime when I'm out of town the drone doesn't even leave the case, it just depends. I've never offered to take pics or video footage for anyone for free much less for money as from what I understand both require a part 107 I also know that intent is also part of the rule. It's just a hobby for me and don't fly that often. I did have a fun experience in March applying for a LAANC, getting approved and speaking with someone at Tyndall AFB for final approval to fly in a restricted area at my Daughters new home just to get a few minutes of footage. I had to stay under 100' and give her some personal info, drone info, my exact location, how long and where I wanted to fly, etc... then call back when I was done. Only spent about 15-20 minutes in the air but the experience of doing all of that was pretty cool to me. I know, simple things lol. Maybe one day when I retire I will change my mind about a part 107.

 

[GadgetGuy]

I appreciate your reply but honestly I thought those same rules applied to people who have their part 107 but I'm assuming there may be exceptions to the rule that I'm unaware of since I don't have my part 107. At this time I really don't have the need for a part 107 as I simply fly for recreation. I take my drone with me when I travel and only use the footage for my personal use. I follow the above listed rules and simply save the footage to document my trips just like I save the pics on my phone for the same reason. Sometime when I'm out of town the drone doesn't even leave the case, it just depends. I've never offered to take pics or video footage for anyone for free much less for money as from what I understand both require a part 107 I also know that intent is also part of the rule. It's just a hobby for me and don't fly that often. I did have a fun experience in March applying for a LAANC, getting approved and speaking with someone at Tyndall AFB for final approval to fly in a restricted area at my Daughters new home just to get a few minutes of footage. I had to stay under 100' and give her some personal info, drone info, my exact location, how long and where I wanted to fly, etc... then call back when I was done. Only spent about 15-20 minutes in the air but the experience of doing all of that was pretty cool to me. I know, simple things lol. Maybe one day when I retire I will change my mind about a part 107.

Many of those same rules, except for following ALL the separate safety guidelines of a chosen CBO, do apply to Part 107 holders, but they at least have the required Part 107, so they cannot be separately charged for flying without a Part 107, as you would be, if you ever, even inadvertently, fail to follow every single one of all the above listed requirements for a recreational flyer, which are more restrictive than for Part 107 flyers.

 

[JCapps]

Many of those same rules, except for following ALL the separate safety guidelines of a chosen CBO, do apply to Part 107 holders, but they at least have the required Part 107, so they cannot be separately charged for flying without a Part 107, as you would be, if you ever, even inadvertently, fail to follow every single one of all the above listed requirements for a recreational flyer, which are more restrictive than for Part 107 flyers.

Thanks. Appreciate the info. Since I thought recreational and part 107 had to follow all of the same rules, is there a list showing what is allowed for part 107 vs recreational other than for payment, profit, etc..... Just curious

 

[GadgetGuy]

Thanks. Appreciate the info. Since I thought recreational and part 107 had to follow all of the same rules, is there a list showing what is allowed for part 107 vs recreational other than for payment, profit, etc..... Just curious

Everything you need to know is contained in the links provided above. Unless you comply with every single one of the recreational flyer requirements listed above by the FAA on every single flight, you need a Part 107. You can also still fly recreationally under Part 107, so if your fun flight ever deviates from fun, you are still covered.

 

[mavic3usa]

Thanks. Appreciate the info. Since I thought recreational and part 107 had to follow all of the same rules, is there a list showing what is allowed for part 107 vs recreational other than for payment, profit, etc..... Just curious

Did you take the TRUST? If so, then you probably know all the rules that you need to know in order to fly your drone recreationally. They are not exactly the same as part 107 but there is some overlap.

Here's the way I like to think about it so it my opinion and many will disagree but *everyone* needs a part 107 in order to fly a drone in the airspace. However, this is one big exception: if you fly strictly for fun, for recreational purposes only and then you don't need a part 107 for that flight. Follow all the rules and you're good to fly without a part 107. Don't follow all the rules, then....

And then as GadgetGuy said, if you violate any of the recreational rules then you lose your ability to fly under the exception and therefore....you need a part 107 in order to fly legally. It's not a recreational vs commercial choice, they aren't two separate but equal categories where you choose how you want to fly. If you fly recreational, it's because you are doing the things that qualify you for the exception. The instant you stop doing those things, you immediately fall under part 107.

What does that mean? You get LAANC from 2pm to 4pm in controlled airspace. If you drone is in the air at 401pm (after your LAANC expires) you are techically flying without authorization and that flight cannot be a recreational flight because it violates the recreational rules that qualify you for the exception. Therefore that flight is under part 107. Do you have a part 107 certification for that flight? probably not.

Or, you must carry your TRUST when your flight in under the exception. If you don't have it then you are violating the rules and your flight no longer qualifies for the exception. It's a part 107 flight (because everyone requires a part 107) and if you don't have a part 107 certificate, you are again in violation. And, there are likely several other part 107 rules that you are violating as well.

Are any of these actually enforced in reality? Probably not unless you do something outrageous. If you buy a Mini drone at Walmart and you go flying for 5 minutes in the Walmart parking lot at 4pm (because you want to see if it flies) and it's 2 miles from the NFL game in progress, you are violating a TFR and you could be in trouble for flying during a TFR, flying without a part 107 certificate, violating national defense airspace, and flying an unregistered drone because all non-recreational drones flow under part 107 must be registered regardless of weight.

So don't fly 401 feet AGL, don't fly BVLOS, don't fly without remote ID, don't fly without carrying your TRUST, and don't fly without knowing your CBO. Because there is no ticket for flying at 401 feet or BVLOS. You are first "converted" to part 107 and then the violations begin. Again, none of this will likely happen in reality unless it is serious....or unless you find yourself in a bad situation. Not trying to say this to scare anyone but wanted to point out this is how the system is designed should it become necessary to "enforce." Personally I believe all those charges and the huge potential fines and/or jail time at the federal level is ripe for extracting a plea bargain and confession but that's another thread for another time.

 

[akdrone]

Thanks. Appreciate the info. Since I thought recreational and part 107 had to follow all of the same rules, is there a list showing what is allowed for part 107 vs recreational other than for payment, profit, etc..... Just curious

Part 107 pilots DO have to follow all the basic rules. Nothing is waved for them..except...they have the ability to do some things that recreational pilots can't, ie they may be able to get permission to fly in a 0 altitude zone or get approval for a long term permission from the FAA to fly regularly in an altitude zone. I have permission to fly in a restricted area for the rest of this entire year so I don't have to apply for a LAANC at all - just make a quick phone call to alert them I'm flying. Part 107 can, of course, fly for a friend to help with this or that or make money - the non-recreational stuff...but the 400', VLOS, not flying over people, etc etc all apply to Part 107 cognoscenti as well.

 

[GadgetGuy]

all apply to Part 107 cognoscenti as well.

Cognoscenti! Had to look that one up! Thought it must be a typo. LOL!
I like it!
Should come in handy at cocktail parties, to confuse the heck out of everyone!

 

[akdrone]

although I typically eschew obfuscation on occasion it's handy

and...on a side note since you liked that earlier bit of linguistics...that last "eschew obfuscation" is one of my favorites because some years ago my wife and i were in Disneyland when a person walked by with a T Shirt that said "eschew obfuscation". I laughed hard and my wife asked what was so funny. I said "eschew obfuscation" ! That's the perfect oxymoron. She later made me a TShirt with Eschew Obfuscation on it. It was my favorite for years. (eschew obfuscation isn't really a true oxymoron but it kinda fits )

 

[GadgetGuy]

although I typically eschew obfuscation on occasion it's handy

and...on a side note since you liked that earlier bit of linguistics...that last "eschew obfuscation" is one of my favorites because some years ago my wife and i were in Disneyland when a person walked by with a T Shirt that said "eschew obfuscation". I laughed hard and my wife asked what was so funny. I said "eschew obfuscation" ! That's the perfect oxymoron. She later made me a TShirt with Eschew Obfuscation on it. It was my favorite for years. (eschew obfuscation isn't really a true oxymoron but it kinda fits )

That one I didn’t have to look up, and I agree, it's close enough to a true oxymoron. Cool T Shirt slogan!