Went to KC Chiefs parade at Union Station. There were drones everywhere flying right over thousands of people. At one time I counted 6 drones flying. Union Station is in a controlled airspace with chunk of it having 200 foot ceiling, while the other chunk being 50 foot ceiling. Both of them were getting breached by A LOT. Saw people launch from middle of the crowd. The most amazing part is the KC Chiefs real deal Instagram account has drone footage of exactly what I just described. Someone is in trouble to say the least…, RIGHT? Am I missing something??
KC Chiefs Parade - drones everywhere
- Thread starter zlek131
- Start date
The NFL and NFL films have teams of freelance operators in each city. It could be someone under contract by them. I’m not saying they all were but I’m sure they had some one there.
Lincoln Financial Field in Philadelphia is right near the airport. A zero ceiling for drones on any map. Their operators have waivers to fly in and around the stadium for content.
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I DON’T have a 107 license so I don’t know, BUT, can you fly over thousands of people if you have 107 ???
And if so, why is it only allowed to 107 pilots ?
Just askin.
I’ll be honest I don’t have the answer to that but I’m sure there are people that can and do because some of those shots exist and are common in current media. This is a question for a network producer. They are usually the ones that need to acquire permits and waivers for any sort of shoot not just drone related.
I do know somebody in Philadelphia that does drone work for the NFL and MLB and he gets access to fly in places and situations nobody else usually can so I assume somebody is getting the proper permission to do so since it’s seen by upwards of millions of people on tv, online, and social media.
Well, my small knowledge base says that a 107 RP can fly over or across people while between point A and B, but hovering and intentionally staying over direct contact would be frowned upon. That’s how I’ve always viewed it anyways. That said, there could absolutely be waivers granting such activity for defined pilots and places.
No you cannot fly over people, even with part 107 license. Yes, transitional flight is allowed over people or moving vehicles when transitioning from point A to point B. These were not transitional flights by any stretch of the imagination. These drones (6 at one point in time) were zipping from point A with thousands of people directly below to point B with thousands of people directly below and 10s of thousands of people directly below in between. Some of these drones without a doubt (because I saw) were launched by people from the crowd. Some were flying easily 150 feet in a 50 foot ceiling controlled airspace. I saw a couple almost collide. Also there were plenty of low flights no more than 15 feet above the crowd. I am part 107 certified and based on laws and regulations what the FAA made me learn and comply with, all kinds of laws/regulations were broken that day. How different is that from the couple Cincinnati not so smart guys that flew over the stadium during a playoff game couple years back and got/are being torched and fined by FBI, DOJ, NFL and FAA, and more than likely will do time? Only difference I can think of is that there were way more people and human density at the parade then at the game, making things even worse.
To end, the irony is that I flew my drone about a mile out from Union Station totally legally, with authorization to operate in controlled airspace, with visual observer, never over people or moving vehicles and still managed to generate a mental sweat/fear as I was expecting a visit from an official. When I got to Union Station and witnessed ALL THAT, I was speechless.
PC: Kansas City Star.
To end, the irony is that I flew my drone about a mile out from Union Station totally legally, with authorization to operate in controlled airspace, with visual observer, never over people or moving vehicles and still managed to generate a mental sweat/fear as I was expecting a visit from an official. When I got to Union Station and witnessed ALL THAT, I was speechless.
PC: Kansas City Star.
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rickmurray1989
Well-Known Member
No, you cannot fly over thousands of people, particularly in a sustained flight.
WilliamDaugherty
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I've recently heard a few people saying that transitional flight over people is now permitted for all drone pilots. AFAIK that only applies to drones that meet the requirements for a Category 1-4 classification. I've only heard of a handful of people that cobbled together a Category 1 drone. Otherwise, we are all bound to the original regulation, which is very clear that you CANNOT fly over unprotected human beings, unless they are part of the flight crew.
Have I missed something?
§ 107.39 Operation over human beings.
No person may operate a small unmanned aircraft over a human being unless -
(a) That human being is directly participating in the operation of the small unmanned aircraft;
(b) That human being is located under a covered structure or inside a stationary vehicle that can provide reasonable protection from a falling small unmanned aircraft; or
(c) The operation meets the requirements of at least one of the operational categories specified in subpart D of this part.
[Amdt. No. 107-8, 86 FR 4382, Jan. 15, 2021]
Have I missed something?
§ 107.39 Operation over human beings.
No person may operate a small unmanned aircraft over a human being unless -
(a) That human being is directly participating in the operation of the small unmanned aircraft;
(b) That human being is located under a covered structure or inside a stationary vehicle that can provide reasonable protection from a falling small unmanned aircraft; or
(c) The operation meets the requirements of at least one of the operational categories specified in subpart D of this part.
[Amdt. No. 107-8, 86 FR 4382, Jan. 15, 2021]
Donnie Frank
Well-Known Member
And nobody was injured?? I guess this just goes to show us that all of this "drones over people" trepidation is unfounded.
Discuss.
D
A single data point does not support reaching a conclusion in any situation with multiple potential outcomes, including this one.
Donnie Frank
Well-Known Member
But then we ignore the hundreds (if not thousands) of "data points" of helicopters and planes flying over people and buildings and cars and children, crashing every year, killing people and animals, destroying dozens of lives and millions in property damage.
Conversely, there are thousands of safe UAV flight "data points," if not MILLIONS. Do YOU want to tally every single UAV flight over people where nobody was injured??? I sure as heck don't!!
You can't have your cake and eat it, too, man. If you're going to show concern over a 2 lb. drone that hasn't killed a single person in the history of UAV aviation, then you have to show a modicum of concern for all the carnage caused by full scale aviation.
Why do people do this? Why do they ignore the carnage of full scale aviation like it's just 'okay' because it "happens all time?" Are we numb to it??? But then with a straight face try to argue the "danger" of these 2 lb. toys we fly? I get so tired of one-sidedness of this argument.
Wanna outlaw 2 lb. drones over people? Well let's start with the 2 TON vehicles over people. How about that? What do you think? Does that make sense?? Wanna compare data points?
Anybody wanna concede that any ONE aviation crash has done more harm and damage than the entire world history of UAV aviation? Anyone care to take that on? I have a couple dozen YouTube crash videos cued up if the spirit moves you.
Why can't we all just concede that after all this time, it's a pretty strong conclusion that UAV aviation is a pretty safe sport. The list of things that do more damage to humans than a UAV is as long as your arm. Seemingly benign things like bath tubs and shovels cause more damage per year than UAV's. Can we all just finally concede that if you're going to vilify a drone for being "dangerous," then we need to outlaw the MORE dangerous bath tubs and shovels???
Discuss.
D
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66427cobra
Well-Known Member
I think the likely answer is that most, if not all, were flying illegally. Despite the requirement for TRUST certification, I am willing to bet that the compliance rate is very low. Without that, how many would even know there are restrictions for altitude or flights over people?
i got my Part 107 more as a whim than anything else. I used it to video my local golf course which is in a zero AGL area close to a Class D airport. Went through all the approvals and got my videos.
Afterwards I was talking to one of the employees who said he flies his drone at the golf course all the time. I asked if he was 107 certified and the answer was no. Told him that he is not allowed to fly recreationally anywhere on the golf course due to proximity of the airport. I don't know if the employee still flies his drone.
i got my Part 107 more as a whim than anything else. I used it to video my local golf course which is in a zero AGL area close to a Class D airport. Went through all the approvals and got my videos.
Afterwards I was talking to one of the employees who said he flies his drone at the golf course all the time. I asked if he was 107 certified and the answer was no. Told him that he is not allowed to fly recreationally anywhere on the golf course due to proximity of the airport. I don't know if the employee still flies his drone.
rando99
Member
It wasn't a "single data point" as there were literally dozens of drones flying pretty much all day there.
Let’s pretend I (part 107 RP) make a stupid decision and fly my drone on Sunday, 30 mins before Chiefs game, within 1 mile radius of Arrowhead stadium in uncontrolled airspace (let’s make it within 1/2 mile for killer footage and the higher probability of getting caught). If somehow I manage to not get caught red handed and hauled away on the spot, I end up posting my awesome videos on YouTube. It won’t be long before my phone rings with FAA on the caller ID, and just like the two Cincinnati guys, without a doubt I am in a world of trouble, even if somehow I managed to avoid flying over people (highly unlikely), but clearly have broken the 1/3 hour/mile-radius FAA restriction.
So I go to jail and/or pay crazy fines, not to mention without a doubt lose my part 107 license for doing the above. At same time it’s “OK” for the NFL/NFL Contractors (and whoever else was there) to fly multiple drones over 10s of thousands of people (and support operations) attending Chiefs Super Bowl parade in controlled airspace well over max ceiling? Capture killer footage and post it on NFL owned social media. And as of right now, NO ONE (including the NFL) has said/explained/justified anything. Perhaps coming, but nothing as of now.
Can someone PLEASE explain this double standard and/or tell me exactly what I may be missing here?
So I go to jail and/or pay crazy fines, not to mention without a doubt lose my part 107 license for doing the above. At same time it’s “OK” for the NFL/NFL Contractors (and whoever else was there) to fly multiple drones over 10s of thousands of people (and support operations) attending Chiefs Super Bowl parade in controlled airspace well over max ceiling? Capture killer footage and post it on NFL owned social media. And as of right now, NO ONE (including the NFL) has said/explained/justified anything. Perhaps coming, but nothing as of now.
Can someone PLEASE explain this double standard and/or tell me exactly what I may be missing here?
From what I've read during the past few years of flying drones, such penalties are extremely rare and are assessed only for blatant and egregious violations. I'm recalling fewer than 10 situations with significant fines and no jail sentences at all.
And what I saw at the parade wasn’t a blatant and egregious violation? LOL! If that wasn’t, then someone flying over an NFL outdoor stadium during halftime shouldn’t be either. After all there will be less people there than there were at the parade, certainly less human density, and half of the crowd will be sheltered by the inside of the stadium while they are using bathrooms and getting halftime refreshments. Also, the players and coaches will be in the locker rooms. Well thought out plan with some safety considerations, certainly not blatant and/or egregious, no?
Update:
Oh this gets even better. Found this article by Kanas City Star, it mentions:
“…Fans are also advised against bringing drones to the parade as authorities will be monitoring the airspace and the operation of such aircraft over large crowds is prohibited by the Federal Aviation Administration…”
So, according to FAA it is illegal to fly over people, but the NFL and their contractors can, and then post the videos on their social media? Confused and pretty sure I missed something, so please help me understand.
Full article: https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article272483973.html
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