Legal to Launch & Land Near Road in US?

[Meta4]

I think the OP just wanted a pic of the Area and I don't think they would attempt to fly over the crater from that vantage point.

It would be an ambitious flight - it's 9 miles to get to the crater and back.

 

[CadrePilot]

I was commenting that the roads inside National Parks are part of the parks and the same rules apply. Being on a road inside the park boundary doesn't get around the prohibition. State parks are a different matter and the regulations differ widely.

This makes sense.

 

[CadrePilot]

I came here with a general question about launching from public space and, yes, flying over private property. We should all exercise some discretion when flying over private property, as not only can it be illegal, depending on what images/video you’re capturing, but just wrong.

The Meteor Crater was one instance that fueled my question, but not the only one, and makes for a nice example of the question I was posing.

Specific to Meteor Crater and Meta4’s reply:

“No it's a guy wanting to fly his drone 4.5 miles over privately owned land to shoot a privately owned, commercial tourist attraction.”​

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Is that wrong?
Could I not pilot an airplane in the NAS and capture similar images?​

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Your portrayal is inaccurate. I drove about 6 miles from the freeway along a public road to the gate of the tourist attraction. I launched from the side of the public road just outside the site. And yes, I flew over private land. Is any of that inappropriate? I’m receptive to feedback on legalities and morality.​

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“…he should have gone in the gate, paid his entry fee and talked to the operator about flying his drone there.”​

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Really? Why? I had no intention of taking any drone photos from a vantage point more accessible from inside the site. I did not want to visit the ‘museum’ or their tchotchke shop.​

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Also, they were not open and I did not plan to wait until their opening time to take any photos and then continue my trip.​

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I did not take advantage of any of their facilities. Instead, I took photos of a big hole in the ground, which I’m pretty confident they had no role in creating.​

I’ve been flying with the assumption that space immediately adjacent to public roadways is legal for launching, operating, and landing drones, so long as it’s done safely and doesn’t interfere with other activities, particularly traffic. I broached the topic in a completely different forum (motorcycles) and someone who responds with an air of authority stated that it was not legal. I’ve asked him for a reference, as I don’t want to violate it, but haven’t gotten that reference. I came here with my OP because I want to know for sure and since it’s on-topic I’m hopeful for pertinent replies.

 

[Cafguy]

It would be an ambitious flight - it's 9 miles to get to the crater and back.

The crater is actually right on the other side of the Building pictured. The long Part of the building is one of the Terrace's that overlooks it.
Side Note: The crater Itself is Known for creating winds that will suck any object above it into the crater. Long ago a commercial pilot attempted a very low altitude Cessna flight over the crater. There are pieces of the plane still inside

 

[Cafguy]

I had no intention of taking any drone photos from a vantage point more accessible from inside the site. I did not want to visit the ‘museum’ or their tchotchke shop.

WHAT!! Don't you know you get a free polished rock with every 12 dollar soda purchase?!!

 

[mavic3usa]

I believe we are inching closer and closer to the point where it needs to be shown to the public (and apparently some members of the community) that operating a drone is not a crime. We can help with that.

 

[akdrone]

No it's a guy wanting to fly his drone 4.5 miles over privately owned land to shoot a privately owned, commercial tourist attraction.
Instead of asking vague oblique questions here about whether it's legal to launch and land adjacent a public road in the US, he should have gone in the gate, paid his entry fee and talked to the operator about flying his drone there.

Doing anything commercial for 4.5 mi is questionable if for no other reason than doing so would negate any insurance a business would have since it would be BVLOS and thus illegal...

 

[CadrePilot]

WHAT!! Don't you know you get a free polished rock with every 12 dollar soda purchase?!!

Hehehe...
I was prepared for my road trip, including a cooler with iced Mtn Dew, tea, and juice.

 

[CadrePilot]

Doing anything commercial for 4.5 mi is questionable if for no other reason than doing so would negate any insurance a business would have since it would be BVLOS and thus illegal...

Good thing I wasn't doing that. His post does not reflect reality.

 

[AMann]

I took this photo of meteor crater from a MAV while flying about 30,000 feet above it. As you can see, there are dirt roads that come very close to it on the south and east side. I have driven on those while metal detecting for the Canyon Diablo meteorite fragments from it. But you would still be BVLOS if you flew anywhere beyond the closest side of the crater to you, and your signal would be blocked initiating a return to home due to the high crater rim.

 

[AMann]

The crater is actually right on the other side of the Building pictured. The long Part of the building is one of the Terrace's that overlooks it.
Side Note: The crater Itself is Known for creating winds that will suck any object above it into the crater. Long ago a commercial pilot attempted a very low altitude Cessna flight over the crater. There are pieces of the plane still inside

It actually sounds like that plane crashed due to a steep turn and stall, complicated by transitioning between colder dense air inside and warm thin air above the crater. Too steep of a turn (overbanking) is bad enough, but when combined with an attempt to climb it can easily become a stall. A lot of wrecks happen when pilots fly into dead end canyons, and they can’t clear the height of the walls or turn around tight enough. From Google: “A plane crashed inside Meteor Crater in Arizona in an attempt to climb over the rim after circling the crater. The plane stalled and caught fire during the climb out, but both occupants survived. A 2006 project called METCRAX (METeor CRAter eXperiment) concluded that the crash was caused by physical and dynamical processes associated with the diurnal buildup and breakdown of basin temperature inversions, or cold air pools. “

 

[hiflyer201]

Is it okay to launch and land adjacent a public road in the US, assuming it's otherwise safe to do so?

Very early on I read, do not take off on roads. A involuntary RTH could ruin your day. For the same reason don’t take off under a umbrella of trees.

 

[Aerophile]

I’ve been flying with the assumption that space immediately adjacent to public roadways is legal for launching, operating, and landing drones, so long as it’s done safely and doesn’t interfere with other activities, particularly traffic...

Actually, like so many things, it depends.

Where I live (a large city in the state of Washington), all public roads (and indeed, all publicly-owned places and spaces) are explicitly off limits to drone operations, per local laws, because the city decided it doesn't like drones and doesn't want them. You can legally operate a drone from your own private property or from someone else's with permission (assuming it's otherwise legal), but not from city owned or administered roads, sidewalks, parking lots or any other "public place" that's owned/administered by the city. I'm sure there are plenty of other jurisdictions that have similar prohibition (New York City comes to mind). Not talking about airspace here, talking about takeoff/landing/operating.

So the answer to your assumption above, it all depends on the local jurisdiction and whether or not they have implemented a ban on drone ops from public property (including roads). I know nothing about this place so maybe the local government is perfectly OK with you flying from the roadside....but I would NOT just assume that since it's a "public road" that you can drive on, then you are also free to use it as your drone launch/landing pad and pilot location. Some of us are surrounded by many miles of "public roads" where flying a drone is clearly prohibited by local laws.

As has been pointed out above, taking off/landing from a road or right next to one also has some other potential complications, aside from local laws.

 

[Dogpilot]

I actually live 20 miles from the crater and know the family that owns it and the land, which is the Bar T ranch. The land to the east is owned by the Bar T, the land to the west of the road is Arizona State Trust Land. The road itself is a Forest Service access easement. The airspace to the east of the crater has increasing restriction due to the Winslow Airport, but there is no restriction on the airspace above the crater. By Federal Law, I can land my aircraft on the Forest Service road, as long as it is safe, provided I put an OHV sticker on the aircraft.

 

[MS Coast]

I actually live 20 miles from the crater and know the family that owns it and the land, which is the Bar T ranch. The land to the east is owned by the Bar T, the land to the west of the road is Arizona State Trust Land. The road itself is a Forest Service access easement. The airspace to the east of the crater has increasing restriction due to the Winslow Airport, but there is no restriction on the airspace above the crater. By Federal Law, I can land my aircraft on the Forest Service road, as long as it is safe, provided I put an OHV sticker on the aircraft.

Which federal law?

 

[Dogpilot]

FR TITLE 36 Sec. 261.13 Motor vehicle use.

After National Forest System roads, National Forest System trails,
and areas on National Forest System lands have been designated pursuant
to 36 CFR 212.51 on an administrative unit or a Ranger District of the
National Forest System, and these designations have been identified on a
motor vehicle use map, it is prohibited to possess or operate a motor
vehicle on National Forest System lands in that administrative unit or
Ranger District other than in accordance with those designations,
provided that the following vehicles and uses are exempted from this
prohibition:
(a) Aircraft;
(b) Watercraft;
(c) Over-snow vehicles;
(d) Limited administrative use by the Forest Service;
(e) Use of any fire, military, emergency, or law enforcement vehicle
for emergency purposes;
(f) Authorized use of any combat or combat support vehicle for
national defense purposes;
(g) Law enforcement response to violations of law, including
pursuit;
(h) Motor vehicle use that is specifically authorized under a
written authorization issued under Federal law or regulations; and
(i) Use of a road or trail that is authorized by a legally
documented right-of-way held by a State, county, or other local public
road authority.

 

[MS Coast]

FR TITLE 36 Sec. 261.13 Motor vehicle use.

After National Forest System roads, National Forest System trails,
and areas on National Forest System lands have been designated pursuant
to 36 CFR 212.51 on an administrative unit or a Ranger District of the
National Forest System, and these designations have been identified on a
motor vehicle use map, it is prohibited to possess or operate a motor
vehicle on National Forest System lands in that administrative unit or
Ranger District other than in accordance with those designations,
provided that the following vehicles and uses are exempted from this
prohibition:
(a) Aircraft;
(b) Watercraft;
(c) Over-snow vehicles;
(d) Limited administrative use by the Forest Service;
(e) Use of any fire, military, emergency, or law enforcement vehicle
for emergency purposes;
(f) Authorized use of any combat or combat support vehicle for
national defense purposes;
(g) Law enforcement response to violations of law, including
pursuit;
(h) Motor vehicle use that is specifically authorized under a
written authorization issued under Federal law or regulations; and
(i) Use of a road or trail that is authorized by a legally
documented right-of-way held by a State, county, or other local public
road authority.

Is this not saying that the exemptions are for lands other than roads, trails, and designated areas?

"...other than in accordance with those designations,..."

How is an OHV registration involved?

 

[Dogpilot]

Rather stupid extension of the "Motorized Vehicle" definition. $25 eliminates that argument. You can also land on Nevada State roads and County roads. Not Federal roads. So many of us that do regularly land in odd places carry copies of the regs to educate various law enforcement that ignorantly hassle us. While you may legally do this far more places than you might think. Best to stay away from populated places, kind of avoid the discussion altogether. Your big issue is your insurance coverage. In most cases on recent policies you can only land on improved designated runways. Or they deny the claim, should you land less gracefully than normal.

 

[CadrePilot]

Finally got around to this pano built from 135 separate images.

 

[Dogpilot]

That is quite nicely done! Far more artistic than mine. I have done it with the survey 3E with an RTK system. It did a 3D model in Agrisoft. Kind of fun to rotate it around and view it from different aspects. For me, a geologist, I find it most interesting in the solid model for rock deformation and ejecta curtain.