Leicester council ban drone flying in parks

[orb]

drones-now-banned-flying-parks-2270194
What if you fly from outside the park at height over the park can they still enforce that ??.

 

[Lastrexking]

‘Because of dangers they might pose to the public’

I wish they produce evidence of drones harming members of the public. It’s not as if they’re falling out of the sky hurting people.

 

[orb]

‘Because of dangers they might pose to the public’

I wish they produce evidence of drones harming members of the public. It’s not as if they’re falling out of the sky hurting people.

Someone replied to it saying more chance of being bitten by a dog and they are not banned

 

[zocalo]

drones-now-banned-flying-parks-2270194
What if you fly from outside the park at height over the park can they still enforce that .

Yes, but they would need to pursue a case through the civil courts which is going to be expensive for both parties. The article also isn't clear whether this is a byelaw or just a "policy" (which is how it is described in the article, whatever that means), if it's a formally set byelaw that is clearly stated on the park signage then I suspect they'll have more chance of success in court than if it's just a "policy" that is not clearly communicated.

Realistically, all they (or any other council) need to do is enforce the Drone Code and the various applicable nuisance laws, and maybe have their park workers, community officers, etc. perform a spot check of any pilots they come across to ensure they are in compliance with CAA's new registration scheme. For particularly busy parks (which these may well be) that alone may be enough to preclude any legal flights and, unlike the local rules the council can pass, those would be an actual criminal offence.

Another reason for this being dumb: once commercial drone deliveries etc. start (which they eventually will), which is going to be safer in the event of a drone falling out of the sky:

Option A: flying around the edge of the park, presumably following a public road and/or footpath route?
Option B: flying over the park, which is mostly going to be open space, and probably dotted with trees to potentially break a drone's fall before it hits someone?

 

[Camino Ken]

drones-now-banned-flying-parks-2270194
What if you fly from outside the park at height over the park can they still enforce that ??.

In the US they could not enforce flying over because the FAA has jurisdiction of all airspace. That doesn’t mean they wouldn't try. I would assume it is similar in the UK.

 

[orb]

Surely councils don’t control the airspace above the parks .

 

[Lastrexking]

Surely councils don’t control the airspace above the parks .

You’d think. I’m no expert, but see this post here - Detailed National Trust property NFZ map

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Surely councils don’t control the airspace above the parks .

They don’t.
But forcing take off / landing of drones from the park area does force perhaps riskier flight from a more distant location, less awareness of people etc using the park.
They make it more dangerous in reality, IF a drone pilot feels it vital for some reason to fly in such a place.
Besides this, it may mean BVLOS at times, so they could effectively ban drones (to official drone rules) over ‘their’ parks with such bylaws (byelaws).

 

[bushie]

Many local authorities in Australia ban take off and landing in parks etc. My local city was going to do so but they received legal advice that tbey did not have the power to do so.

 

[BossBob]

Bristol City Council have also banned drones and RC aircraft from all but parts of 3 parks. One is next to a community hospital, college, sports centre and houses. Another is next to houses and a children’s play area. The third is near houses and a play area. All 3 are probably not suitable for flying under the CAA drone regulations. Go figure!

 

[zocalo]

I'm not really familiar with either of these councils and fortunately have lots of very scenic open access land to fly in nearby so even if my local parish council were to do this (which they so far have not) it would only be on general principles that I would protest the move (which I would).

Realistically though, most urban council parks tend to be largely flat and open with a bit of woodland, e.g. not really somewhere we'd want to fly a drone for serious photographic purposes even if the drone code allowed for it, so the main impact of this is on one of two groups; those who use their (mostly tiny) drones as a more versatile selfie stick, and those who just want to fly for the sake of flying. I doubt there would be too many people in the latter camp at least that would be too upset if many parks were off-limits as long as they had at least one suitable field to fly in, and by doing to it would make CAA registation compliance checking easier and encourage a little community building as they'd be bringing like-minded people together.

I'm therefore curious as to whether either of these councils (or any others putting similar restrictions in place) are also providing suitable spaces that are specifically designated as places where it's OK to fly, or if they are just demonstrating the typical NIMBYism many councils have when they don't really understand the practical implications of something. Anyone in Bristol, Leicester, or wherever, care to comment?

As an aside, I've generally found my local council to be quite receptive to constructive suggestions of this nature, and especially so if you can get some backing from a suitably established group (e.g. the BMFA), so might be worth reaching out to your local council if this is something that is applicable to you.

 

[FoxhallGH]

Realistically though, most urban council parks tend to be largely flat and open with a bit of woodland, e.g. not really somewhere we'd want to fly a drone for serious photographic purposes even if the drone code allowed for it, so the main impact of this is on one of two groups; those who use their (mostly tiny) drones as a more versatile selfie stick, and those who just want to fly for the sake of flying. I doubt there would be too many people in the latter camp at least that would be too upset if many parks were off-limits as long as they had at least one suitable field to fly in, and by doing to it would make CAA registation compliance checking easier and encourage a little community building as they'd be bringing like-minded people together.

Largely in agreement with you zocalo - but I'd add that parks are the ideal 'learning' grounds for newbies. By taking away these areas where we started off by flying our squares & figure-eights, it's making it difficult for new drone owners to get the skills to go on to better things.

 

[pmshop]

In the US they could not enforce flying over because the FAA has jurisdiction of all airspace. That doesn’t mean they wouldn't try. I would assume it is similar in the UK.

Yes they can with FAA approval.
There is a ban on flying drones in New York City:

New York – State Drone Law

statedronelaw.com

Here in Texas, the legislature passed a law that revoked ALL municipality ordinances concerning drones and stated all proposed ordinances had to be applied for through the FAA before being passed.

 

[zocalo]

Largely in agreement with you zocalo - but I'd add that parks are the ideal 'learning' grounds for newbies. By taking away these areas where we started off by flying our squares & figure-eights, it's making it difficult for new drone owners to get the skills to go on to better things.

Sure, and my local playing field is where I made my first few flights for exactly that reason, but I'd class that as flying for the sake of flying for which any suitable location would do. If all I want to do is practice flying, even with a high-end drone or RC aircraft, I only need an open area with a suitably low occupancy, separation from built up areas, and for it to be outside any NFZs; a scenic backdrop is a nice bonus for that, but it's certainly not essential. If a city council were to ban drones in most of its parks, but also sets aside some suitable and readily accessible areas where it's explicitly encouraged, then I wouldn't have any problems with that, especially given that flying in many smaller city parks is quite likely to be prohibited under the Drone Code anyway due to proximity to a built-up area.

 

[jonthecourier]

Hi All, here in Cornwall the National Trust have banned all drones from there land which is extensive, but I guess if you takeoff outside of there land you would be OK as they don't own the air space the CAA takes care of that but the CAA don't own the air space they control it which is different.

 

[sirbadger]

drones-now-banned-flying-parks-2270194
What if you fly from outside the park at height over the park can they still enforce that ??.

As long as you adhere to the CAA rules then I can't see what they can do to stop you flying over.

 

[hiflyer201]

"Largely in agreement with you zocalo - but I'd add that parks are the ideal 'learning' grounds for newbies. By taking away these areas where we started off by flying our squares & figure-eights, it's making it difficult for new drone owners to get the skills to go on to better things."

I agree with you Fox, and someone should present to these nitwits the proposition that as popular as drones are becoming and as necessary as they are going to become that a large part of public parks could and should be designated as a "Drone Only" area. I wonder what they would think of restriction rulings then.

 

[Royston James]

Yes, but they would need to pursue a case through the civil courts which is going to be expensive for both parties. The article also isn't clear whether this is a byelaw or just a "policy" (which is how it is described in the article, whatever that means), if it's a formally set byelaw that is clearly stated on the park signage then I suspect they'll have more chance of success in court than if it's just a "policy" that is not clearly communicated.

Realistically, all they (or any other council) need to do is enforce the Drone Code and the various applicable nuisance laws, and maybe have their park workers, community officers, etc. perform a spot check of any pilots they come across to ensure they are in compliance with CAA's new registration scheme. For particularly busy parks (which these may well be) that alone may be enough to preclude any legal flights and, unlike the local rules the council can pass, those would be an actual criminal offence.

Another reason for this being dumb: once commercial drone deliveries etc. start (which they eventually will), which is going to be safer in the event of a drone falling out of the sky:

Option A: flying around the edge of the park, presumably following a public road and/or footpath route?
Option B: flying over the park, which is mostly going to be open space, and probably dotted with trees to potentially break a drone's fall before it hits someone?

I thought only the police could check your drone registration. Not even those plastic coppers have no right to ask you.

 

[zocalo]

I thought only the police could check your drone registration. Not even those plastic coppers have no right to ask you.

Beyond the fact that it's definitely not the CAA's job to enforce the law, it's not exactly clear who actually *is* charged with doing so. The police appear to be the only body specifically mentioned so far, but CSOs are also granted a subset of policing powers and may also be formally authorised ask for your ID, but I agree that after that you're down to landowner's rights and far more nebulous things. AFAICT, there isn't any specific statement either way, but even if it's officially a "no" they could always ask and if you decline get the police involved. The whole thing seems to have been rushed through in response to Gatwick and issued in half-baked way anyway, so it's entirely possible this aspect hasn't even occured yet - I'd certainly like to see a definitive list.

Personally, I think as long as you are challenged by someone that is clearly a relevant official for where you are flying it would probably be easier to just produce the paperwork and be done with it, rather than risk the police getting involved. In certainly situations that might potentially also be way of dealing with any other person that is confrontingy you, including random members of the public. YMMV of course, and in any case it would also be heavily dependant on where you are flying, how you are flying, who is asking, and how they are asking.

 

[Scubadiver1944]

"Largely in agreement with you zocalo - but I'd add that parks are the ideal 'learning' grounds for newbies. By taking away these areas where we started off by flying our squares & figure-eights, it's making it difficult for new drone owners to get the skills to go on to better things."

I agree with you Fox, and someone should present to these nitwits the proposition that as popular as drones are becoming and as necessary as they are going to become that a large part of public parks could and should be designated as a "Drone Only" area. I wonder what they would think of restriction rulings then.

I think you make a valid point here. In 2017 I asked Leicester City Council if it would be OK to do some trial flights on local parks in my area to learn how to fly my Mavic safely (the area is known as the Park Estate due to the huge number of council operated open spaces there) A blanket ban on such was their reply, unless one joined the Braunstone Flyers BMFA club at a cost of within spitting distance of £100 p.a. for membership, insurance, carparking fees etc, which had permission to fly their model aircraft at Leicester's biggest park, in Braunstone. I did 3 free trial flights their club offered from the site before deciding that the cost was a bit too prohibitive for me since I mainly wanted to fly my drone whilst on holiday at really scenic destinations abroad to complement the underwater video I shot whilst undertaking scuba trips. Notwithstanding that as a retiree I only wanted to do trial flights to learn how to control the drone safely at a park in the mornings when all the kids were in school and most parks were invariably empty, the answer was still "NO!" Only Police, said drone club and anybody wanting to wade through 14 pages of the council's drone regulations to fly a drone for purely professional/commercial purposes and willing to pay a £50 admin fee need contemplate applying!
That hasn't prevented said council from building several skateparks for some residents (in one case at a cost of £142,500), so if it's good enough to spend money for skateboarders, then why not for drone flyers so they can practice safely? it seems not. Fortunately, despite much frustration, I did find the Leicester Drone Club which meets at a country pub in the Syston area, a mile or two north of Leicester, which meets most Sundays for two hours where one can use the facilities of "The Gate Hangs Well", refreshments, toilet facilities and flying over local fields, a scenic boating lake in order to practice how to safely fly one's drone at a mere £2 per session. What more could one ask for?