Line of Sight Friend or Foe?

[DavidGlennPDX]

Fairly new to flying and trying to sort the laws from the reality.
Law seems to be line of sight but is this reasonable or even a good idea all the time?
Do most of you keep your eyes moron the screen, more on the craft or even fully one or the other and does that change?
I find my perception of where the craft is after it gets a bit away from me is vastly different than the camera.
The camera/screen seems far better in accuracy as I can be sure I am over an object eyeballing it and then check the camera to find out I am still quite a distance from it. I get concerned that maybe objects are closer in the screen than they appear but I find even when visually I am SURE I am well beyond a point, I can look at teh screen and see it is still in front of the drone.
With the craft easily lost to the eye with hills/trees ect in the horizon as is typically here in the pacific northwest it seems to me that while an unobstructed line to the controller is needed or at least preferable most of the time that it would be safest if I visually keep a general idea of where the craft is but keep my eyes on the screen to navigate.
I find however if the craft is close to me such as me following along a trail closer to ground level direct visual sight feels more accurate than the camera.

I am not myself a fan of following laws or regulations that are senseless and even less apt to obey one that actually makes me less safe and risks my craft.

 

[Robert Mitchell]

I try to maintain LOS in the sense of not putting anything between me and the Mavic. You are correct that one cannot always keep the aircraft within one's visual lock.

I'm pretty sure most would agree that's neither practical, or at times, the safest way to fly.

And you're right. There's the law, and there's reality. Only you can be the judge of where the two coincide.

 

[Pyrogen]

I do my best to keep it within VLOS if I am even remotely near people or buildings. But if I look away to look at my screen, its easy to lose sight of the drone.

If I'm out in a remote location then I'll fly beyond VLOS to get the shot I want want. Eg. Full mountain view and these are often beyond VLOS simply due to the small size of the mavic.

 

[787steve]

You might want to read about the Phantom 4 which had a mid air collision with an Army helicopter near Coney Island while out of sight of operator. Could be costly for operator of the Phantom. All issues aren't attached to the ground as buildings, trees, etc. Luckily, it did minor damage to the helicopter, though it did bring back pieces of the drone. Damage to heli rotor could be costly. I don't know how they tracked it back to owner. He just knew his Phantom lost contact and did not return home. He had no idea he had had a collision till the FAA knocked on his door.

Line of site. It's not just a law, it's a good idea.

 

[DavidGlennPDX]

Well Steve, I am not sure I can agree. What your talking about is the area being outside the line of site, not so much the craft.
Today I took my 3dr over the columbia river out towards an interesting island. As it got out over the water my choices to keep the craft in line of site, meaning I can make out the dot against the background would be to keep flying higher as I got farther out or to use the screen.
Now, there is a clear line of site from me to this little island. It is not like a helicopter or small plane could sneak up on the scene without me first hearing it.
So, should I bring the drone home? Try to squint and use line of sight to guide it knowing the perspective and my judgement of it with a tiny black dot which is I am stunningly lucky I can see or do I use the screen to get as close as I dare to the Island, circle about and get the shot and then RTH, on a side note I find I love using RTH to get it at least pointed in the right direction and then take over from there. Would be a great feature if there was an orient to home option

 

[Oingo Boingo]

787steve herewith the issue. As drone operators we are given the eyeball by the local air regulator when not sticking the the law. But think about this for a second. If all the Heli pilots stuck to their height restrictions and all the drone pilots did the same.... We would have no issues would we

 

[dbyantis]

Fairly new to flying and trying to sort the laws from the reality.
Law seems to be line of sight but is this reasonable or even a good idea all the time?
Do most of you keep your eyes moron the screen, more on the craft or even fully one or the other and does that change?
I find my perception of where the craft is after it gets a bit away from me is vastly different than the camera.
The camera/screen seems far better in accuracy as I can be sure I am over an object eyeballing it and then check the camera to find out I am still quite a distance from it. I get concerned that maybe objects are closer in the screen than they appear but I find even when visually I am SURE I am well beyond a point, I can look at teh screen and see it is still in front of the drone.
With the craft easily lost to the eye with hills/trees ect in the horizon as is typically here in the pacific northwest it seems to me that while an unobstructed line to the controller is needed or at least preferable most of the time that it would be safest if I visually keep a general idea of where the craft is but keep my eyes on the screen to navigate.
I find however if the craft is close to me such as me following along a trail closer to ground level direct visual sight feels more accurate than the camera.

I am not myself a fan of following laws or regulations that are senseless and even less apt to obey one that actually makes me less safe and risks my craft.

I keep it in view, briefly glancing at the screen to confirm orientation when farther out. But I learned flying without a camera on the drone, except my GoPro, so all visual flights.

 

[Robert Mitchell]

... I don't know how they tracked it back to owner.

They tracked the serial number from the recovered motor back to the owner through DJI records.

 

[elwyn5150]

If all the Heli pilots stuck to their height restrictions and all the drone pilots did the same.... We would have no issues would we

That would be true if helicopters never had to pass through the altitude levels for drones to say... land.

 

[vashon100]

..... on a side note I find I love using RTH to get it at least pointed in the right direction and then take over from there. Would be a great feature if there was an orient to home option

If I'm understanding what you want, it seems like the compass view can provide that for you. Rotate until it's pointing at home.

 

[Mossiback]

I keep mine in VLOS, which doesn't mean I can actually see it (yes, I do know what the V stands for). How I know it is in VLOS is I use the camera to see me, or at least the area I know that I am in. Then I line up landmarks between the MP and me and I can tell the general area of sky the MP is in and find it visually. It helps to use binoculars. If you loose VLOS because of obstacles then you risk losing signal and relying on technology working properly to get it back.

 

[tcope]

I keep mine in VLOS, which doesn't mean I can actually see it (yes, I do know what the V stands for).

You may understand what it means... but no... you don't do it.

How I know it is in VLOS is I use the camera to see me, or at least the area I know that I am in.

Then no... you don't understand what the FAA means by VLOS as this would not meet their definition. VLOS means that _you_ can see the drone, unaided by another device. So using the drones camera to see you is not the same thing. Setting that aside, if you can see yourself with the Mavic's camera on a small screen then you should be able to see the Mavic with your eye.

Then I line up landmarks between the MP and me and I can tell the general area of sky the MP is in and find it visually. It helps to use binoculars. .

If you use that "help" then you are not maintaining the FAA required VLOS. Do I care? Not one bit. I'm just pointing out that you are not following the FAA guidelines for maintaining VLOS.

 

[Pyrogen]

You might want to read about the Phantom 4 which had a mid air collision with an Army helicopter near Coney Island while out of sight of operator. Could be costly for operator of the Phantom. All issues aren't attached to the ground as buildings, trees, etc. Luckily, it did minor damage to the helicopter, though it did bring back pieces of the drone. Damage to heli rotor could be costly. I don't know how they tracked it back to owner. He just knew his Phantom lost contact and did not return home. He had no idea he had had a collision till the FAA knocked on his door.

Line of site. It's not just a law, it's a good idea.

I do get that. However I know roughly where my drone is at all times. I just physically cannot see it at say 600-700 meters away even if in a direct line with no obstacles between us. A helicopter, plane or hot air balloon is far easier to see at that distance and thus easy to descend once you know its in the area.

All common sense really.

 

[tcope]

Law seems to be line of sight but is this reasonable or even a good idea all the time? Do most of you keep your eyes moron the screen, more on the craft or even fully one or the other and does that change?

First, it's the law. It's not going to change by debate here. If you don't want to do it... don't. There are hundreds (probably thousands of people that post on this forum that obviously don't follow this law.

You may not understand what the FAA means by VLOS. You can search this forum for this info as it's been discussed in detail many times. VLOS does not mean you are looking at the Mavic every second. You can take your eyes off of it to look at other things, such as the screen.

The camera/screen seems far better in accuracy as I can be sure I am over an object eyeballing it and then check the camera to find out I am still quite a distance from it. I get concerned that maybe objects are closer in the screen than they appear but I find even when visually I am SURE I am well beyond a point, I can look at teh screen and see it is still in front of the drone.

Great... but that has nothing to do with VLOS or what the FAA requires it. It's not just about where your drone is, it's about where your drone is in relationship to other things in the sky (mainly aircraft).

I am not myself a fan of following laws or regulations that are senseless and even less apt to obey one that actually makes me less safe and risks my craft.

Senseless by who's standards? Your own? Someone might find it senseless to them that they can't drive in your neighborhood drunk all of the time. If you don't think flying within VLOS is something you need to do... then don't. You certainly won't be the only one. But don't doubt that flying within VLOS is not more safe or currently the law in the US.

 

[beach_Dr]

Would be a great feature if there was an orient to home option

Isn't that what the 'home lock' option on smart flight modes does?

Regarding VLOS

I have had scary incidents over beach, flying 200-300m out still technically within VLOS, where fixed wing aircraft suddenly appear along the beach @150-200m altitude, and even though I am aware where mavic is, based on video feed, map, still not 100% sure in relation to newly appeared aircraft. Have had paragliders over beach at 5-10m altitude!

So since I never know who else is around, I very rarely stray out of VLOS now, unless heading out over open ocean where risk of sightseeing aircraft at low altitude is minimal.

 

[Dragonfly]

Well Steve, I am not sure I can agree. What your talking about is the area being outside the line of site, not so much the craft.
Today I took my 3dr over the columbia river out towards an interesting island. As it got out over the water my choices to keep the craft in line of site, meaning I can make out the dot against the background would be to keep flying higher as I got farther out or to use the screen.
Now, there is a clear line of site from me to this little island. It is not like a helicopter or small plane could sneak up on the scene without me first hearing it.
So, should I bring the drone home? Try to squint and use line of sight to guide it knowing the perspective and my judgement of it with a tiny black dot which is I am stunningly lucky I can see or do I use the screen to get as close as I dare to the Island, circle about and get the shot and then RTH, on a side note I find I love using RTH to get it at least pointed in the right direction and then take over from there. Would be a great feature if there was an orient to home option

There is an orient feature on your Mavic. Its in the corner of the little map screen. Touch to turn into radar circle and show drones direction and orientation from homepoint. Just rotate drone till big red arrow points to center off circle, which is you and push forward stick.

 

[Luca Brazzi]

It says visual line of sight. It doesn't say in sight. There is actually a difference. Notice how vague they make that law.

 

[Mossiback]

You may understand what it means... but no...

Wow, I guess I did not word it correctly. What I tried to get across is I maintain VLOS on the area of sky I am flying in. That way I can monitor the area for other traffic. I keep it close enough that by bumping it up/down or right/left I can usually see it again with the unaided eye.

 

[Callum]

Wow, I guess I did not word it correctly. What I tried to get across is I maintain VLOS on the area of sky I am flying in. That way I can monitor the area for other traffic. I keep it close enough that by bumping it up/down or right/left I can usually see it again with the unaided eye.

Exactly as I do.

Sometimes it's hard to see the mavic as so small but I can see the area of sky it is flying in and can take action if another aircraft enters it.

Common sense really.

 

[Nathanmot]

I try to maintain LOS in the sense of not putting anything between me and the Mavic. You are correct that one cannot always keep the aircraft within one's visual lock.

I'm pretty sure most would agree that's neither practical, or at times, the safest way to fly.

And you're right. There's the law, and there's reality. Only you can be the judge of where the two coincide.

Perfectly said