Lost at Sea :( Please Help3

[Cylan]

Two ways to explain what happened.

Either you updated firmware on controller and aircraft but did not update the app to a recent version, or you failed to log into the app at some point before your flight while you had an internet connection.

Either will cause what you saw, and both were explained in the firmware update notes and and on-screen pop-ups.

I suspect the best DJI will offer is a discount voucher against the purchase of a replacement aircraft.

First flight after updates should never be from the back of a moving ship, but I'm sure you won't do that again...

I updated the firmware on the device, and updated the DJI Go4. It did not prompt me to login to DJI.com, and I did not know there was a restriction, as I was packing to get underway.

I was not prompted before I flew it either, because I'm out in the ocean with no service. Normally I trust DJI and their updates, as I've had no reason not to, until now.

 

[mark_t]

Even if you somehow managed to not get, or miss the various pop-up messages it was also covered in the published app update notes:

https://dl.djicdn.com/downloads/mavic/20170622/Mavic_Pro_Release_Notes_en.pdf

"For increased safety, the flight is restricted to a height of 30 m and distance of 50 m when not connected or
logged into the
app during flight, including DJI GO 4 and all apps compatible with DJI aircraft."

I certainly understand the sense of loss and the frustration that you must have felt when you could not bring the aircraft back to you, but sadly it was avoidable by reading the notes for the updates you applied or at the very least discoverable in safer circumstances by not going straight from significant updates to flight off the back of a moving ship which you did not control...

 

[RavenTBK]

It seems like he's fishing for a reason for this to be anyone else's fault.

Trying to be nice, I wasn't as direct as I probably should've been. I hit on all the points repeated, but he's not taking it from me or anybody.

Dude, you screwed up, on multiple fronts.

#1 Flying new firmware in a critical setting without testing it first.

#2 Not following published instructions describing the limitations in the new firmware and how to remove them.

#3 Ignoring popup notices on your mobile device before flight.

#4 Flying from a moving ship without the required skillset. I'm actually surprised the XO authorized it at all while you're on active deploymemt.

#5 Blaming DJI for "pushing" something that you willingly accepted and installed yourself. DJI doesn't push new firmware. They have started triggering self destructs in the Go4 app, but that is seperate than firmware, which is where the flight restrictions were introduced.

DJI owes you $0. The rules and procedures were made clear and accepted by you multiple times. Then you made the conscious choice to fly outside of the parameters, so you bear 100% responsibility for the result.

Sucks, I wholly agree, and shouldn't have happened, but that's facts. Man up sailor.

 

[Cylan]

It seems like he's fishing for a reason for this to be anyone else's fault.

Trying to be nice, I wasn't as direct as I probably should've been. I hit on all the points repeated, but he's not taking it from me or anybody.

Dude, you screwed up, on multiple fronts.

#1 Flying new firmware in a critical setting without testing it first.

#2 Not following published instructions describing the limitations in the new firmware and how to remove them.

#3 Ignoring popup notices on your mobile device before flight.

#4 Flying from a moving ship without the required skillset. I'm actually surprised the XO authorized it at all while you're on active deploymemt.

#5 Blaming DJI for "pushing" something that you willingly accepted and installed yourself. DJI doesn't push new firmware. They have started triggering self destructs in the Go4 app, but that is seperate than firmware, which is where the flight restrictions were introduced.

DJI owes you $0. The rules and procedures were made clear and accepted by you multiple times. Then you made the conscious choice to fly outside of the parameters, so you bear 100% responsibility for the result.

Sucks, I wholly agree, and shouldn't have happened, but that's facts. Man up sailor.

1. I'm not sure where it was a critical setting. DJI made no mention to me that this was a critical setting. I installed the new update (DJI Go4, and Firmware, because it was my understanding if I did not, THEN I would be limited) Since I've been flying drone I've NEVER seen this type of restriction in place.

2. You're right, I didn't look at the published instructions, I saw there was an update required, so I pushed the updates to my app, and the aircraft.

3. There were ZERO popup notices on my mobile device after the update, and before flight (while at sea) Because I'm in the middle of the ocean, and there simply is no way to get a connection this far out.

4 I have the required skillset to fly, as I've done it before on several occasions. My footage was even used by the USCG in an advertisement on their facebook page.

5. I simply installed an update from DJI whom I trusted. I recommend their devices all the time, they're a great company. I just never thought I'd be restricted like this, because in all my years of flying I've never seen their products get this tightened down.

I appreciate your words, but i'll leave it up to DJI to decide if they owe or not. If they do not, that's on them.

 

[RavenTBK]

1. I say critical setting not how you're thinking of it being a switch or option, but a critical setting as in environment. Flying from a boat (especially a military vessel while on duty no less) you need your junk in a1 top shape...unlike when flying at the park.

2. If you've flown DJI products for any length of time, you'd already know that something being required is not the same as necessary for flight. Each time I go up with fw400 I see Update Required on the preflight settings overview. It does not stop the flight for me nor for anyone else.

3. Internet is not necessary, as the restrictions popup has to do with no login cookie being set. There are plenty of threads about its behavior.

4. Obviously not? Else this wouldn't have happened? Plenty of things like reading before you blindly upgrade, to flying before testing, to not updating your home point to the controller to move the bubble say otherwise.

5. All these restrictions and issues have been talked about for a couple weeks already. It shouldn't have been a surprise. OTOH, what about other manufacturers and recalls...if there's a glaring issue with something (F35 is a military example, and any of the recent commercial airliner groundings), they don't keep using it, they park it till it's either fixed or a solid kludge is implemented.

The good judgement is not there in any of your replies, and that's my problem. This is no different than that lady who sued the fast food joint because the hot coffee was hot. Or folk who slip and fall in a grocery store eating a payout after willingly stepping in a spill.

 

[Cylan]

1. I say critical setting not how you're thinking of it being a switch or option, but a critical setting as in environment. Flying from a boat (especially a military vessel while on duty no less) you need your junk in a1 top shape...unlike when flying at the park.

2. If you've flown DJI products for any length of time, you'd already know that something being required is not the same as necessary for flight. Each time I go up with fw400 I see Update Required on the preflight settings overview. It does not stop the flight for me nor for anyone else.

3. Internet is not necessary, as the restrictions popup has to do with no login cookie being set. There are plenty of threads about its behavior.

4. Obviously not? Else this wouldn't have happened? Plenty of things like reading before you blindly upgrade, to flying before testing, to not updating your home point to the controller to move the bubble say otherwise.

5. All these restrictions and issues have been talked about for a couple weeks already. It shouldn't have been a surprise. OTOH, what about other manufacturers and recalls...if there's a glaring issue with something (F35 is a military example, and any of the recent commercial airliner groundings), they don't keep using it, they park it till it's either fixed or a solid kludge is implemented.

The good judgement is not there in any of your replies, and that's my problem. This is no different than that lady who sued the fast food joint because the hot coffee was hot. Or folk who slip and fall in a grocery store eating a payout after willingly stepping in a spill.

Thanks for the replies man. Perhaps it was my fault. I just didn't see this coming. I thought it was in tip top shape before I put it in my case.
I thought I was doing the right thing by upgrading.

anyway no need to bash me any further, I can take a hint

Have a good one.

 

[AlanTheBeast]

Thank you for the support. I will definitely be writing to them, and seeing what they can do. I feel better knowing its not my fault, or at least that it was out of my hands. Because I was out in the middle of the ocean, I had no popup telling me to update or anything like that, so I thought I was good to go.. Very sad day for me, but maybe DJI will make me whole.

Thanks guys! I feel somewhat better now.

You definitely DO get a warning about logging in after a firware update in the DJI GO App. I've seen it a dozen times at least - indeed you need to agree to it. It does NOT specifically warn you that you are not logged in. You have to check that for yourself. I don't recall if that fact is laid out in the checklist page.

 

[mark_t]

Thanks for the replies man. Perhaps it was my fault. I just didn't see this coming. I thought it was in tip top shape before I put it in my case.
I thought I was doing the right thing by upgrading.

anyway no need to bash me any further, I can take a hint

I would just add that you should still see what DJI will do for you, I've been pleasantly surprised from time to time.

For the rest, treat it as a learning experience, potentially an expensive one but not entirely a waste if it helps avoid something in the future.

 

[Cylan]

Thanks Mark. It definetly is a learning experience, and a painful one. I'll still see what DJI can do for me. Thanks for the support!

I would just add that you should still see what DJI will do for you, I've been pleasantly surprised from time to time.

For the rest, treat it as a learning experience, potentially an expensive one but not entirely a waste if it helps avoid something in the future.

 

[kvn_roberts]

First rule of business... always set flight quarters condition 1. Could have launched the small boat for recovery once the problems started to pop up. What size cutter?

In all seriousness, sorry for your loss. I almost lost mine in the middle of the Savannah River a few weeks ago, that feeling is something I hope not to experience again.

 

[Cylan]

270'

First rule of business... always set flight quarters condition 1. Could have launched the small boat for recovery once the problems started to pop up. What size cutter?

In all seriousness, sorry for your loss. I almost lost mine in the middle of the Savannah River a few weeks ago, that feeling is something I hope not to experience again.

 

[MarcelKoks]

Just wondering... If you take up your mavic, with max distance set to for example 2 miles. Your on a moving platform, so you set the homepoint to 'controller'. The mavic hovers in place but you move away, exceeding the max distance. What does it do then? Follow you to stay within max distance? Or only display a warning in the screen?

 

[Path Finder]

Thanks for your service Cylan!

I was also thinking the RTH might not have been set correctly? (Needed to be controller location not Mavic location on take off) It "should" have followed you as you moved if everything was working correctly.

As to not being "signed in" to the Go app, who ever "Signs out"? (I never do, am I at some "risk" by being logged in all the time?) Per numerous posts and videos, we do not need to have internet access at "power up", provided you logged into the Go App back when you did have the internet and did not "log out" after you move away from internet access. (I trust that info, but have not "proven it" for myself yet. Has to be true though or it makes the Mavic an expensive "paper weight" for me as flying "off grid" is the sole reason for the purchase. I'm just learning flying "local" so I don't waste time when I'm on trips)

Make your case with DJI, for some reason some folks sure seem to "defend" DJI but I see two sides. (Short of the fact you did not fly in a "safe area" after any change or upgrade) I get the fact you were in a hurry and thought you did the right thing by doing an upgrade I think you were "forced into". I was starting to get a little "PO" with all the upgrades in a row then I felt "forced into" the upgrade that "got you". (Yes, we had the choice not to but would have limited flight range, how is that not being forced into it without warning that the requirement was going to happen at some far off future date. . .)

Anyway I typed too much already, sorry for your loss and I hope they at least split it with you!! (Meanwhile I hope folks do some testing and prove the Mavic will follow the RC like it should without being logged into the app, I don't have a large enough area nearby to prove that at the moment)

 

[Kilrah]

The only thing people need to learn is that after EVERY app and firmware upgrade you should do test flights in a safe area both in "normal" conditions and with special conditions you're expecting to encounter.

I.e. do a flight on land with internet connection available as normal. Fix any problems for that to work correctly. Then if you know you're going to be without a connection, disable all connections and fly again. Only then will you know you're good to go.

 

[mark_t]

I was also thinking the RTH might not have been set correctly? (Needed to be controller location not Mavic location on take off) It "should" have followed you as you moved if everything was working correctly.

That is not how it works.

You can reset the home point to the current location of the controller, but it is a one-off change, if the controller location moves you have to reset it again, it does not follow you.

They have recently added a truly dynamic home point feature to the I2 when used with the optional GPS attachment for the controller, but that is the only device with the ability have the home point actually follow you.

 

[Hamltnlbue]

I wouldn't be sending DJI any log information. Military ship movements are usually classified and you would be sending info to the Chinese Government.
I'm surprised that the military allows drone flights around bases or ships.

 

[Path Finder]

That is not how it works.

You can reset the home point to the current location of the controller, but it is a one-off change, if the controller location moves you have to reset it again, it does not follow you.

They have recently added a truly dynamic home point feature to the I2 when used with the optional GPS attachment for the controller, but that is the only device with the ability have the home point actually follow you.

Wow, what is the point of setting RTH based per the controller then? (Long distance "remote" take offs?)

 

[mark_t]

Wow, what is the point of setting RTH based per the controller then? (Long distance "remote" take offs?)

The point is to allow you to move after take-off and tell the aircraft where to return.

It still works just fine even on a boat, but you either need to reset it once at the end of the flight or multiple times during the flight.

Main reason it is not continuous is that the GPS in the phones and tablets we use is not always great at getting a precise lock so it is important for you to check when resetting the home point that it has gone where you expect it to be...

 

[migcollados]

Hi Cylan,

I am sorry about your loss, thank you for sharing the information.
I suffered a similar problem on 22nd June: I did the required update and launched from a sailing boat. After a few hundreds of yards the drone will not follow anymore, and it took me a few minutes to realize that it was flying inside this "virtual cylinder "
Luckily for me (and my Mavic) the skipper turned around and I was able to recover it without harm.
If it can be of help I can send you the log file, just let me know.

 

[jwblair]

The point is to allow you to move after take-off and tell the aircraft where to return.

It still works just fine even on a boat, but you either need to reset it once at the end of the flight or multiple times during the flight.

Main reason it is not continuous is that the GPS in the phones and tablets we use is not always great at getting a precise lock so it is important for you to check when resetting the home point that it has gone where you expect it to be...

I was playing with RTH to controller position in a park a while back and I think I came to the conclusion that it returns to the controller's current position at the moment you command the RTH. If the controller moves after the RTH command, it doesn't matter and it continues to where the controller was when the RTH was issued.. If you cancel the RTH and then re-execute a RTH, it will use the new current position of the controller at the time the RTH was re-executed.