Low flying airplanes and heli - rules?

[Pontoon-pilot]

I live near a lake (actually a long narrow river but they call it a lake because it is dammed)
Regularly we have low flying helis and local aircraft that "buzz" the lake, and in the summer we have commercial photography helis buzz around boats taking pictures in hope the boat owners buy them.
I suppose ...If I am in the park at the lake shore, flying my drone, I yield to these aircraft, right?

 

[Mossiback]

Right.

 

[Rbneff50]

Yes

 

[gjmphoto]

UAV have to yield to manned aircraft as a rule. Something silly about loss of life or something.

 

[tleedom]

Anything manned. Here on the front range (east side of the Rockies) starting in the late spring to early fall there is always a chance for a run in with a hot air balloon. I have had them pass over the house only 50' above the trees. Man does it drive the dogs crazy.



Of course you always have to keep an eye out for the Flight for Life aircraft.

 

[Pontoon-pilot]

Don't they have the min 500 feet AGL rule? I am sure I've read somewhere that they have to be at least 500 feet above people/population. So if I am flying my the drone at the local park at 150 feet AGL and an aircraft wants to fly 100 feet above the lake I must immediately ground my done?
I understand the "loss of life" in manned aircraft, but they are violating FAA rules flying low, no?
Normally, If I ever hear an airplane come about, I always bring the drone back to "home" and down.

 

[sar104]

Don't they have the min 500 feet AGL rule? I am sure I've read somewhere that they have to be at least 500 feet above people/population. So if I am flying my the drone at the local park at 150 feet AGL and an aircraft wants to fly 100 feet above the lake I must immediately ground my done?
I understand the "loss of life" in manned aircraft, but they are violating FAA rules flying low, no?
Normally, If I ever hear an airplane come about, I always bring the drone back to "home" and down.

14 CFR 91.119 (c) may apply, depending on distances etc.:

§91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.​

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Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:​

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(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.​

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(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.​

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(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.​

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(d) Helicopters, powered parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft. If the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface—​

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(1) A helicopter may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section, provided each person operating the helicopter complies with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA; and​

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(2) A powered parachute or weight-shift-control aircraft may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (c) of this section.​

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[Doc. No. 18334, 54 FR 34294, Aug. 18, 1989, as amended by Amdt. 91-311, 75 FR 5223, Feb. 1, 2010]​

 

[tleedom]

When I was a active duty RW pilot we used the above highlighted guidance extensively. In our case we may have been a little loose on the "Congested" definition. And by what I see here locally, things have not changed much (at least for the Army guys).

 

[Bigbird48]

you must give way to any manned aircraft no matter what, even if their where their not suppose to be. Period

 

[Mossiback]

...So if I am flying my the drone at the local park at 150 feet AGL and an aircraft wants to fly 100 feet above the lake I must immediately ground my done?...

No, you do not need to ground your drone, just lower altitude until the aircraft leaves the area and then be on watch for it's return.

 

[Red Baron]

I can't believe this is actually a question- Good lord

 

[neggy]

Since you can not out climb the plane or helicopter, or get the horizontal or vertical separation required, you would be wise to descend to a point where you are not a danger to the manned aircraft that always has the right of way,

As to if you should land.... remember if the manned aircraft hits your sUAV in the course of their flight, you are in the wrong, and will be held legally and civilly liable. In any investigation the question will be "was the sUAV operating in a safe manner?"

You could be 100% in the right, and the plane or helicopter pilot could be breaking every rule, but if the SHTF, they would be hanging you out to dry.

 

[ChallengerPilot]

Did you fly planks?

When I was a active duty RW pilot we used the above highlighted guidance extensively. In our case we may have been a little loose on the "Congested" definition. And by what I see here locally, things have not changed much (at least for the Army guys).

 

[neggy]

the "congested" definition is pretty clear..... any area that is shaded yellow on a sectional chart.

there is not a lot of wiggle room in the definition

 

[tleedom]

Did you fly planks?

MH6 lift configuration (Little Birds), back in the 80's. Never heard the term "Planks", are you referring to our external seating?

 

[sar104]

the "congested" definition is pretty clear..... any area that is shaded yellow on a sectional chart.

there is not a lot of wiggle room in the definition

Yellow on the sectional indicates "populated place". In this context 91.119 (b) states "Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons...", which perhaps implies a subset of that. I would have expected them to use the same word otherwise.

 

[tleedom]

Yellow on the sectional indicates "populated place". In this context 91.119 (b) states "Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons...", which perhaps implies a subset of that. I would have expected them to use the same word otherwise.

Yep. we never operated over assembled persons. Though we at times did operate within the "congested area of cities".

 

[DanMan32]

I hope most of us persons are assembled.

 

[Pontoon-pilot]

I can't believe this is actually a question- Good lord

How so ..oh mighty?
I am flying in this park, legally. The park is on the lake shore. Planes enter this area at low altitude.
They don't own the airspace and should not be there.
These are mostly rouge pilots want to have some fun, and it is is not a frequent occurrence.
I am not saying this is a game of Chicken, drone vs. manned plane.
The point is, I've been flying in this park for 20 years or so, model air planes mostly, yes FAA registered. I take my model helicopters elsewhere for safety reasons- mostly because it is much more unpredictable and unstable compared to fixed wing model aircraft or a quad copter/ or what we call here a drone.
I always bring my RC aircraft to 100 feet or below when I hear or see a private plane buzzing nearby, they usually just fly right over and be done.
Also, an RC airplane put in a dive comes down really fast, same goes with a heli with negative rotor pitch on the collective. A mavic is not as fast on descending and usually hovers up at much higher altitude, longer, me enjoying some "DJI goggle- birds eye view".
Red Baron, don't be so angry about it.
If I am fishing out on the lake, and a float plane wants to land in the water, should I quickly pull up anchor and get the hell out of dodge?
.

 

[sar104]

I am flying in this park, legally. The park is on the lake shore. Planes enter this area at low altitude.
They don't own the airspace and should not be there.

Do they meet this criterion or not? If they do then they can be there and, relative to your drone, they do own the airspace.

(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.​