Perhaps you could also email the National Grid (or am I out of date ) and see if they have a contact number for finding out where inspections are planned.
Low flying helicopters in UK
- Thread starter IslandBarnDave
- Start date
Another good shout. My area is covered by Western Power Distribution based very near me so I’m storing their number. Just checking the NOTAMs now to see if there was one for the other day.
Military helicopters are a continuing grumble of mine. I live ten miles away from a RAF helicopter training base in a flat area which is used extensively for low level training. Last week there was one doing a low level hover exercise less than 150 mts from my house. How do I know it was less than 150 mts? Because it was between my house and a wind turbine and it was less than 4 mts above the ground. It hovered there for more than 20 minutes. I went and fetched my camera and started to take pictures when the pilot/instructor spotted me and immediately they cleared off. They came back about an hour later but spotted me again and then they cleared off again
The problem I have is they fly here most days and I never know when they are likely to turn up. I live on my own 7 acre plot with no neighbours so you would think I would have no problem. I feel that if I complain all that will happen is the "no fly" zone around the base will be extended to taken in my place and I will be grounded. Because they are only annoying about a dozen households they can get away with it.
If it was only Royal Air Force pilots who were being trained my grumbles would be mooted but most are from other countries.
Grumble over (for the time being)
The problem I have is they fly here most days and I never know when they are likely to turn up. I live on my own 7 acre plot with no neighbours so you would think I would have no problem. I feel that if I complain all that will happen is the "no fly" zone around the base will be extended to taken in my place and I will be grounded. Because they are only annoying about a dozen households they can get away with it.
If it was only Royal Air Force pilots who were being trained my grumbles would be mooted but most are from other countries.
Grumble over (for the time being)
Interesting given I’m only one county over from you. I wonder if it’s your Chinooks that have been visiting me. I’ve got 5 acres and no neighbours so like you I would think I can fly pretty much undisturbed.
I think you need to re-think what what you perceive to be OUR SPACE -- it's not -- many aircraft and helicopters have wavers to be so low to do their job, and it's your responsibility to be out of their way.
You need to be aware of your surroundings, have a plan if you hear or see another flying object, and have your ears and eyes on a swivel.
It's all part of being a responsible and safe drone pilot.
More common sense although I think you meant waiver. Actually you are reinforcing my original point about shared air space.
You can get an overview of military planned low level by ringing the MOD number but its pretty useless for helicopters.
Ultimately that's the reason for the VLOS rule - if you hear or see something you're close enough to judge what to do in order to avoid an issue. There's no other way other than look and listen.
Most low fly helicopter stuff won't be NOTAM'd unless its for a specific exercise, the Chinooks in particular rove around that area a lot.
You can get some warning on ADS-B Exchange - tracking thousands of aircraft (but not FR24 as it filters out most military) but its advisory only and nowhere near 100% accurate for low level traffic. You quite often seen the Chinooks on there though.
One of the local runs i do its quite common to look down from the track onto the Chinooks as they (quite legally) follow the river at 150ft AGL.
Airsense/ADSB wont really help as most aircraft in the UK that are most likely to conflict with a drone aren't ADSB equipped in the first place.
This is the problem, its shared airspace with multiple legal users ranging from military to rescue to survey to drone.
If im flying somewhere i know there's likely to be traffic i will check adsbexchange and listen out on VHF and the UHF low fly frequencies just to get some rough idea of what i can expect. And often keep the drone far closer to me than i otherwise would.
Sometimes if it appears particularly busy (or Mach loop etc) i wont fly at all that day.
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Hi Dave, I also live on the side of the Malvern Hills. On the western slopes, our garden backs onto the valley that runs along West Malvern Road. I TOTALLY agree with your frustration about the Chinooks. I haven't seen or heard the Western Power hellis but the other day a Chinook came blazing through the valley I mentioned above. I find it very very unlikely that it was above 400ft and as it was hugging the ground and using the valley as "cover". I wasn't flying but I don't think I'd have stood a chance of getting my drone out of the way. My reactions and hearing are pretty good but this thing came barreling out of nowhere! It's yet another stress to keep the old heart rate up when flying!
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Why would it be above 400ft? Defeats the whole point of the exercise.
Typically low level training will operate at 250ft, dropping to 150 in designated areas.
(Or even 0ft and land in others).
Typically low level training will operate at 250ft, dropping to 150 in designated areas.
(Or even 0ft and land in others).
I mentioned that purely as it's the height could legally have been flying my drone. Also, Malvern has a population of circa 30,000 somewhat outside of the guidance for low level military flying, which says they should avoid areas with population of over 10,000. Whether flying higher would defeat the object is irrelevant if my drone ended up in the Chinooks rotors or worse still it's windscreen. The OP is correct that these are shared airspaces and we all need to find a way to be safe.
Badgersurfer
Well-Known Member
You are absolutely correct regarding Chinooks below 100ft. I am in a Chinook corridor in the South East as well as ASR. The ASR seem very low but when I am flying they are always above 400ft. The Chinooks however fly inland of the coast well below nearby hills that are only 60 meters high and virtually skim the rooftops at about 100-120ft often at night. But they are very easy to hear approaching and you normally have plenty of time to descend to a safe level. I also have front rear and top facing strobes just for additional safety.
Hi, likely the same Chinook that flew over my land then and not for the first time. Great to see a near neighbour on here... maybe we can meet up and compare notes once lockdown ends.
Not really, they can skirt the town. Its not that big.
Ultimately with a Chinook at least you can always hear them coming a long time before you see the. Incredibly distinctive noise. The same cant be said for fast jets at 420kts.
Chinooks can legally fly lower than the max height of your drone but thats why VLOS is needed. And obviously its always going to be the drone operators fault if there is a collision.
Sure thing, although I'm not sure how many notes I'd have to share. Due to lockdown and my over cautious approach I've only flown about 10 times in a year! Also I do now remember a non-military heli flying low and fast right over our house. Not sure how it had slipped my mind so completely, although I've been home-schooling since December so my short term memory has a lot to contend with at the moment!! I do remember being irked enough to log onto flightradar24 to try and work out who it was, I drew a blank though as the only heli's that had been anywhere near Malvern were already over the Bristol Channel or Shropshire way. It was moving fast but I don' think it could have made it that far by the time I fired up the webpage
There's a good little field in West Malvern that is pubic, far enough away from buildings and "fairly" quiet (just occasional dog walkers) Even better in the height of Summer as you can still fly in full daylight at 8pm when there is often no-one about.
Have a look at the gov website that provides information about low flying military aircraft "Low flying isn’t usually allowed in areas around airports, or towns and cities with populations of more than 10,000."
Of course if I was to hear a chinook approaching while I was flying my drone (which quite rightly it is usually easy to do) I'd descend as low as was safe, as fast as was safely possible. I always keep VLOS too, however on one occasion when I wasn't flying my drone, a chinook was so low and doing such a good job of using the terrain to hide its approach that I would have had less chance of evading it if it was on a direct course for my drone. If the worst had happened and there'd been a collision, it isn't "obviously" going to be the drone flyers fault as there'd be an investigation and only if it was found that I flew in a dangerous or illegal way would I be held responsible. I haven't seen anything to make me think that culpability would require you to have a 6th sense.
Completely agree. Actually I find it distinctly unhelpful that people keep repeating that we need to maintain VLOS and keep listening. Putting to one side the fact that it is completely legal to fly (and drive) as a profoundly deaf person so listening isn’t always the answer, we all know, and most of us follow, the rules about VLOS.
My original question was whether I can get prior information about planned low level flights over my own land. The consensus seems to be probably not since a NOTAM would not necessarily be issued. I then tried to open a debate as to whether that is reasonable given we potentially share the same air space. Very few people seem to want to engage in that debate though, perhaps because they live or fly in an area where they are not impacted. Lucky them but you and I don’t have that luxury.
I retain my view though that if we live outside a NFZ or any other restricted area then we should have some easy way of finding out about planned low flying before we launch our drones. Notice I use the word “planned”. Even if nothing was planned I would still have a responsibility to maintain VLOS in case, say, an air ambulance flew over.
"around" is very generic.
Skirting towns and villages is completely normal (ie by a few hundred metres at most). The Chinooks operational area is well known - they're one of the few that do show on tracking sites.
That isn't actually true. You're operating an unmanned vehicle.
Skirting towns and villages is completely normal (ie by a few hundred metres at most). The Chinooks operational area is well known - they're one of the few that do show on tracking sites.
That isn't actually true. You're operating an unmanned vehicle.
Planned low-flying you can in that you get a general route or corridor. That isn't going to field specific though.
As i said in my first post, thats exactly what the MoD low fly phone service is designed to do.
Low flying military aircraft
The Ministry of Defence (MOD) carries out low flying for training across the UK - low flying areas (LFAs), tactical training areas (TTAs)
Specifically the low level advisory service there.
With the Chinooks though they wont know their precise route before departing. They'll have a rough area of operations and thats it. And that can change on-the-fly.
The best you might get is there is some flying planned for the rough area on a particular day.
"Around" is the wording that the .gov website uses. Can I ask why you have asserted that "skirting" by a few hundred meters is ok? In any case the chinooks have been known to go over our houses and gardens which is neither around or skirting! I am running the risk of me sounding like I'm anti-chinook. I'm not, I think they're magnificent and I do understand that we need them and they have a job to do. My 11 year old son loves seeing them. Personally I prefer to see them when, I'm NOT flying my drone.
Can you point me to the law that states that if I am flying an unmanned vehicle, legally, within the full guidelines set out by the CAA, the law of the land, the local byelaws etc etc (I have a mini BTW) that any collision will still be my fault?
Its standard airlaw (and international).
Unmanned is always responsible for avoiding conflict with manned.
CAP 722 Section 2.1.1 requires the unmanned operator to "avoid any risk of collision with any manned aircraft" then links to the annexes.
Its standard stuff globally. If you're unmanned you're entirely responsible for conflict with manned.
In short, if there's a collision its your fault.
On top of that the various articles of the Air Navigation Order confirm it.
There's no law that says Chinooks or fast jets must not overfly gardens, homes or even towns. They try to avoid it, sometimes its not practical or possible. All entirely legal for them to do.
I live in LFA7/TTA where aircraft are allowed down to 100ft AGL within certain rules. Its just something you get used to and factor in before a drone flight.
Unmanned is always responsible for avoiding conflict with manned.
CAP 722 Section 2.1.1 requires the unmanned operator to "avoid any risk of collision with any manned aircraft" then links to the annexes.
Its standard stuff globally. If you're unmanned you're entirely responsible for conflict with manned.
In short, if there's a collision its your fault.
On top of that the various articles of the Air Navigation Order confirm it.
There's no law that says Chinooks or fast jets must not overfly gardens, homes or even towns. They try to avoid it, sometimes its not practical or possible. All entirely legal for them to do.
I live in LFA7/TTA where aircraft are allowed down to 100ft AGL within certain rules. Its just something you get used to and factor in before a drone flight.
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