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Mavic Mini class action info speed error

Have you experienced loss of control possibly due to bent blades in storage?

  • Yes, I use third party blade storage, blades crossed #2 or similar

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, I use third party blade storage, blades free, non perpendicular, no case

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .
This is just as likely to be because the blades are easily damaged, rather than being deformed. Even blades of grass can cause minor damage to Mini blades. There’s no evidence to conclude that the changes to the Mini firmware were just because of blade deformation.
Would it surprise anyone if I said I disagree?

Of course the firmware updates dealt with multiple issues, not only blade deformation. And yes, I know that's not what you meant. You are suggesting the firmware updates introduced these new error messages with the intent to draw attention to any type of propeller damage, scratches, chip, cracks etc, not just for blade deformation.

That's where I disagree. There is ample evidence that the changes were made specifically to address propeller deformation.

DJI drones can potentially sustain prop damage from landing in grass, sand or gravel, resulting in chipping or cracking of the blades, etc. But these drones are remarkably robust and will continue to fly even with surprising amounts of blade damage. People have demonstrated this by cutting portions of their blades off. Other than causing severe vibration from imbalance, the drones still fly. I know I've seen a video of this using a Mini somewhere, but I can't find it at the moment. Here's a similar video using a Mavic.

Blade damage of this sort is fairly evident and easily assessed in a visual inspection. But a distorted blade only with its pitch profile flattened is much more difficult to see.

You say there's no evidence that the firmware changes were made to address blade deformation? But there is ample evidence. Initially the warning message announced Max Power Reached. Nobody knew what that meant. People assumed it must have something to do with faulty batteries not delivering sufficient power. People claimed that refreshing the battery firmware would cure this issue.

DJI then added the Motor Speed Warning, with a beeping ESC identifying the affected motor, and explicit instructions to replace the propeller blades on that motor. And still people were confused. They could see nothing wrong with their props. All sorts of bad misinformation was posted in the forums. Just refresh the firmware. Use the Assistant rather than the Fly App to refresh the firmware. Just delete the defective new firmware and downgrade to a previous version as this "fixes" the problem and permanently removes the error message.

And still people were reporting Uncommanded Descents. Here's a great example from mrKentdotcom. I love this guy. He's honest and sincere, and certainly not stupid. He had already received the Motor Speed Warning in several previous videos. Operating in hot conditions in Arizona, he concluded the defective motor conditions were a result of insufficient lubrication on the motor bearings. So he applied a drop of the thinnest lubricant (gasoline) to the motor bearings. In this video we can see that doesn't cure the problem. His Mini experiences multiple classic uncommanded descents. He eventually realizes it's caused by deformed propeller blades resulting from, according to him, "improper" storage in the Fly More Case. He claims careful proper storage will prevent recurrence of the problem.

Now DJI's error message warns of Propeller(s) rotating too fast. The message says to check the propellers and, "if warped", take the prescribed corrective action.

That is pretty clear evidence that this error message is intended to address propeller deformation. It doesn't say, if cracked, if scratched, if chipped, if broken, etc. It very explicitly says, "if warped".

But here's the problem that DJI still hasn't addressed.

The prop deformation can be quite subtle and very difficult to spot using just a visual inspection. That makes it particularly dangerous. An obviously cracked or broken propeller blade is easy to spot, even if the drone still flies fine. But the prop deformation we're looking for here is a subtle flattening of the blade's pitch angle. An otherwise unblemished blade still looks perfectly fine, it just won't provide sufficient lift. Eventually the Mini's motors will reach their ultimate rpm limit and can longer spin any faster to generate the required lift. That results in an uncommanded descent.

So, problem #1. The Motor Speed Error said to replace the propeller blades. People saw nothing wrong with their blades and ignored the message. The Propeller(s) rotating too fast warning now says to check the propellers and, if warped, take the prescribed corrective action. But people can't see whether the blades are warped.

The only way to know for certain whether your blades are performing as they should is to do a 5-minute Hover Test, then analyze the flight log data to plot and compare the motor speeds. In a hands-free stable hover done indoors (no wind), all four motors should turn at near equal speed of approx 9600 rpm. If one of your motors (typically the left-rear) is running at a significantly and consistently higher speed than the others, it's a conclusive indication that the blades on that motor are producing insufficient lift thereby forcing that motor to run faster.

Please note: This is not new information! It's been known for at least 8 months now. Check the date on this video. It was posted way back on April 30th, 2020. This video explains how to access and plot your Motor Speeds.

And here's problem #2. The Propeller(s) rotating too fast warning message says to check the blades and, if warped, let the aircraft hover for 5 min "to try to straighten the propeller(s)".IfWarped.jpg
That is beyond ridiculous. How can hovering straighten the propellers? If that was at all possible, why wouldn't the propellers then automatically self-correct any warping every time you simply fly it around normally?

The 5 min hover test is used to collect flight log data. Plotting the motor speeds from that data provides evidence of whether your blades are warped or not. Hovering does not, and can not, straighten the blades!

Problem #3, DJI has not advised how to avoid bending the prop blades. In fact, the revised version of the Fly More Case now makes the situation even worse.

DJI continues to recommend storing the Mini with its blades "properly" stowed and folded together in the crossed position laterally under the body of the Mini, as per the label in the bottom of the Fly More Case.

The revised Fly More Case has been modified by removing the block which previously supported the belly of the Mini. In the revised version of the Fly More Case, the now flat bottom of the case does nothing to support the weight of the Mini. With the blades folded laterally underneath the body, the full weight of the Mini now rests directly onto the blade tips thereby guaranteeing they will bend.

If any of you, like Brojon in post#57 above, think I'm "making this scenario up from whole cloth", it's simple enough to just check your own Mavic Mini. Have a close look at how your rear prop blades mesh together when folded together crossed under the body of the Mini. Fresh straight blades cannot be meshed together without bending. If your blades slide easily over/under each other, I strongly encourage you to do the Hover Test. Maybe your blades actually are fine as-is. But maybe they're not...
 
Yup. Gasoline wouldn't have been my first choice either. :oops:

But don't let that distract you. It's not as though that's what caused his uncommanded descents. I believe the motor bearings are sealed in any case. Starting at 8:15 in that same video he shows a previous incident of uncommanded descent, while flying with prop guards installed, which was recorded long before his injection of a drop of gasoline.

Those are all classic examples, with the Mini sagging to hit the ground regardless of any additional throttle input. The mechanism is exactly the same as that shown in the video by Ian in London, which I included earlier in post#35 on page2.

The only reason I mentioned the gasoline is that it's one more example of the type of misunderstanding caused by the Motor Speed Error warning message. He suspected there was a problem with the motor itself, and only much later realized it's actually caused by propeller deformation.

A much bigger issue is the question why, if people actually heed the warning and obediently replace the defective propeller blades with a new set, why they then so often receive the exact same message again shortly thereafter?

I'm convinced it's because, between flights, they store their Mini with the blades crossed, as is still recommended by DJI.
 
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That's where I disagree. There is ample evidence that the changes were made specifically to address propeller deformation.
There’s no actual evidence that DJI introduced the changes solely to address problems with deformation. Do you have any links to DJI themselves saying this is the only reason for the changes? Posts on forums by users don’t constitute evidence of this.

You’re making some big leaps of assumption that because DJI introduced new warnings they must be related only to blade deformation. You quote a few people who have apparently “proven” your theory. However, there must be many thousands of customers who bought the Fly More combo and store their drone in the case. If that definitely caused blade deformation AND that deformation was causing undemanded descents, the drone forums would be awash with complaints and this just isn’t the case. There certainly are people with issues, some of whom attribute them to blade deformation, but the total number probably represent a tiny fraction of the total number of Minis sold. I stored my Mini in the Fly More case for many months without any issues. I have the latest firmware and the latest app update and I’ve never had the warnings. I have been doing all of the things which you say cause this problem so why didn’t it happen to me?

It’s quite possible that you’re correct about all of this. However, without an official announcement by DJI to confirm it, it’s just as possible that it’s a coincidence and the new warnings are designed to cover a range of potential issues. Repeating your points over and over again doesn’t necessarily make them more correct.
 
There’s no actual evidence that DJI introduced the changes solely to address problems with deformation.
According to you, DJI added a new Propeller Speed warning message including explicit instructions to check whether the propeller blades are "warped", because they intended that message to address something else?

Like, maybe those instructions are actually intended to draw your attention to a faulty GPS unit or a defective battery, or .... or to what exactly? Does your argument sound logical to you?

Do you have any links to DJI themselves saying this is the only reason for the changes? Posts on forums by users don’t constitute evidence of this.
Well, YES! How about a post by DJI Support?

If you go to the Mavic Mini section of the DJI Forum, the very first topic is titled, "New Mavic Mini Safety Notification – “Motor Speed Error”. It was posted on May 7th by DJI Support and has been pinned to the top of the forum list ever since.
New Mavic Mini Safety Notification – “Motor Speed Error”

It explains the Motor Speed Error, "lets customers know when propellers need to be inspected or replaced". It has nothing to do with the motors themselves, nor GPS units, nor batteries, nor anything else. Just propellers.

It further explains the reason for the error notification as, "When the propellers are bent or damaged, the aircraft propulsion may be reduced and not perform as intended. The new Mavic Mini propeller safety inspection feature is capable of detecting this and sending a notification to the pilot with a “Motor Speed Error” message."

There's your cue to jump in and say, "Aha! Not solely bent. It's bent or damaged. Furthermore, they go on to describe how to resolve the issue. "Please land the aircraft as soon as possible and check if the corresponding propellers are visibly damaged, bent, chipped. If the propellers are slightly misshapen, [you] can straighten them out and retest to ensure the issue has been resolved. If the propellers show signs of major damage, chipped or bent, please replace them before flying."

Much worse, DJI then instructs that "proper storage" will prevent the error from recurring. "To help prevent this from occurring, pilots should follow the proper storage procedure for the aircraft. For reference, please refer to the image below. Please notice the placement of the rear arm propellers. Make sure the propellers are folded horizontally so that they are not pressed down upon during transportation. Pilots are also recommended to check the aircraft propellers before every flight."

Your position is that this Error message was not introduced to solely address bent props, but also visibly damaged or chipped props, correct? Well you only need to read the subsequent 8 pages in that thread for abundant evidence of how utterly ineffective those instructions were.

As mentioned numerous times above, it is very difficult to spot propeller deformation using just a visual inspection. Instead, far too many people upon receiving this error message are still following DJI's instructions and merely checking their props for visibly damaged or chipped blades. Seeing nothing visibly wrong with their props, they see no reason to replace the blades, and continue flying.

There’s no actual evidence that DJI introduced the changes solely to address problems with deformation. [...] without an official announcement by DJI to confirm it, it’s just as possible that it’s a coincidence and the new warnings are designed to cover a range of potential issues.

DJI subsequently added an even more explicit Propeller Speed warning message. This message mentions nothing about motors, nor anything about GPS or battery issues either, nor even anything about visibly damaged or chipped blades. It very specifically says to check whether your propellers are warped and instructs to "try and straighten the propeller(s)".

Yet, in your opinion, you feel this message could somehow possibly be referring to a range of potential issues other than propeller deformation? Please explain.
IfWarped.jpg

As you have pointed out, only a very small proportion of the Mini flying community reads these forums, or even knows these forums exist. A very much smaller proportion will ever have the patience to read through an entire thread like this, let alone even just this single lengthy post.

What proportion of Mini owners do you predict are even aware of the Hover Test, let alone have ever considered performing one? Have you?

I stored my Mini in the Fly More case for many months without any issues. [...] I’ve never had the warnings.
Do you still store it in the Fly More case? Do you have the original version of the case with the raised block to support the belly of the Mini? Or do you have the revised version of the case, with the flat bottom? Have you closely examined your propeller blades? Have you ever done a Hover Test? Why not? Aren't you the least bit curious?

It is quite evident that folding the blades together in the crossed position must bend the blades. But the blades are flexible and can spring back to resume their normal shape. Maybe there are other factors involved. I don't know. Storing the Mini in its case inside a hot car might cause the blades to stay permanently bent. Maybe the length of time the Mini remains stored with its blades crossed is another factor. Maybe your blades aren't yet sufficiently bent to trigger the error warnings. Lots of other possibilities...

What I do know for sure is the rear blades especially cannot be folded to mesh together without forcing the blades to bend. Anyone can see that as illustrated in the images I posted, or with merely a quick look at their own Mini. If your blades slide easily to mesh together, either left over right, or right over left, then it's a dead certainty your blades are already permanently bent. That can easily and quickly be verified with a 5-minute Hover Test and plotting the Motor Speeds.
 
Yet, in your opinion, you feel this message could somehow possibly be referring to a range of potential issues other than propeller deformation? Please explain.
IfWarped.jpg


As you have pointed out, only a very small proportion of the Mini flying community reads these forums, or even knows these forums exist. A very much smaller proportion will ever have the patience to read through an entire thread like this, let alone even just this single lengthy post.
What does the message say after “If the issue...”?

It also says “If warped” which implies that other things could be causing the error. There’s no doubt that bent/warped blades are something that can trigger this error but you have repeatedly said that “the changes were made specifically to address propeller deformation” whereas DJI say the error can be triggered if the blades are “bent OR damaged”.

Your position is that this Error message was not introduced to solely address bent props, but also visibly damaged or chipped props, correct? Well you only need to read the subsequent 8 pages in that thread for abundant evidence of how utterly ineffective those instructions were.
Those subsequent pages contain posts by users (many are repeat posts by a fairly limited number of forum members) who disagree with the DJI statements. That doesn’t make them correct. Nor does it change what DJI says about the issue. If DJI knows that the case is causing problems with the props, why would they continue to advise people to store the Mini in the case in accordance with their instructions? Surely that would just be making things worse? Why would they want to do that?

Do you have the original version of the case with the raised block to support the belly of the Mini? Or do you have the revised version of the case, with the flat bottom? Have you closely examined your propeller blades? Have you ever done a Hover Test? Why not? Aren't you the least bit curious?
I have the original case but bought a hard case recently because I wanted something more robust. I’m still using the original set of blades which, apart from some minor score marks near the tip of one blade, look OK to me. I haven’t carried out a hover test because there’s never been a reason to - I’ve never had the warnings.
Maybe there are other factors involved. I don't know. Storing the Mini in its case inside a hot car might cause the blades to stay permanently bent. Maybe the length of time the Mini remains stored with its blades crossed is another factor. Maybe your blades aren't yet sufficiently bent to trigger the error warnings. Lots of other possibilities...
My Mini was stored in accordance with DJI’s instructions in the case, unused, for a number of months over the summer so I would have expected any issues to appear but they didn’t. How long is long enough?
 
I think those both sides of this issue have more than covered their stance on the warped props caused by the DJI recommended storage method. Unless either side has new pertinent information to add, this back and forth with personal nuances like you see here needs to come to a halt. New information can be posted, but more personally directed posts will be deleted and the thread CLOSED.
 
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... this back and forth with personal nuances like you see here needs to come to a halt. New information can be posted, but more personally directed posts will be deleted and the thread CLOSED.
I'm sorry. I apologize. I won't do it again. No disrespect intended. Really. Group hug! ☮️❤️
 
What does the message say after “If the issue...”?
I've personally only ever received the Motor Speed message once, changed the props, and stored it unfolded ever after. Never had a problem since.

I've never seen the Propeller Speed message myself. That one is copied from someone else's video, so I'm not sure what follows after the "If the issue...". But I assume it's something like, "If the issue persists, send your Mini in for repairs."

If DJI knows that the case is causing problems with the props, why would they continue to advise people to store the Mini in the case in accordance with their instructions? Surely that would just be making things worse? Why would they want to do that?
That is very much the question, isn't it? And why would they remove the supporting block from the bottom of the revised case, as a flat-bottomed case can only make the situation worse?

I have the original case but bought a hard case recently because I wanted something more robust. I’m still using the original set of blades which, apart from some minor score marks near the tip of one blade, look OK to me. I haven’t carried out a hover test because there’s never been a reason to - I’ve never had the warnings.

My Mini was stored in accordance with DJI’s instructions in the case, unused, for a number of months over the summer so I would have expected any issues to appear but they didn’t. How long is long enough?
Then that sounds like the perfect test example. If you've never had the warning messages, it can only mean your props are either perfectly good, or they just haven't yet been deformed sufficiently to trigger any warnings. Your motor speeds plotted in a Hover Test, whether they're all equal or not, should demonstrate what is still considered a safe speed insufficient to trigger warnings.

Would you consider doing a quick Hover Test? Just auto-takeoff, let it hover for two minutes, and land. Then, if you don't want to figure out how to plot them yourself, upload your flight log DAT file to a DropBox and PM me the link. I'd be happy to plot the Motor Speeds for you or anyone else.

Prop deflection truly is difficult to spot, unless you look closely. I've been browsing that thread over on the DJI Forum again, and here's yet another example. This photo was in Post#42 of that thread. He put white cards behind the motors so you can more clearly see the rear blades. If you look only at one side, or only at the other side, you'd never know there's anything wrong with the blades. But when comparing the left side to the right side you can spot a difference. The left-rear blades look straight, while the right-rear have a noticeable upward curl at their tip.
DroopyLeftRear.jpg
In that Post#42 he says those are the original props and his Mini had only been flown for one hour and he has not received any warning messages. The Mini was stored as DJI recommends.

Apparently that amount of deformation in his blades was insufficient to trigger warnings, or he just hadn't ever flown it aggressively enough, or in windy enough conditions, or whatever.

He went ahead anyway and swapped in a new set of left-rear blades (see Post#45), and now you can see the new left blades look the same again as the right blades.
NewLeftRear.jpg

I previously said the only way to know for sure was to do the Hover Test and plot Motor Speeds, but here's another post in that thread (Post#66) where someone used a tachometer designed for checking model aircraft propeller speeds. That works too!

"I went and bought a tachometer for checking model aircraft propeller speeds from a hobby shop.
I launched the mini and while in a hover, checked each of the propeller speeds on each motor.
I found that the rear left was running faster than the other motors, the other three motors were within 50 rpm of each other.
[...] I then “adjusted” the blades by gently bending them back to match a new blade, then retested in hover flight again, adjusting until speeds were close to the other motors."
 
Whilst I’m in no way saying that deformed blades may not cause issues, most, if not all, Minis have potentially been stored before sale for many months with their blades crossed. You’d think that everyone who bought one would be experiencing problems and that doesn’t seem to be the case. Why is that?
Where do I chime in? I have my own info and have done my own test and I think I could shed some facts along with my own common sense that just might put all this to rest for most. I'm convinced nothing anyone says everyone is going to agree with but I feel if you have at least as much common sense and basic knowledge of how and why things work I believe those people will see my evidence along with how I explain them and agree with me. Its really the only logical way considering things like why just the tips don't get bent when I store them with my very simple a fast method and other things that I hope most will agree with. I been flying the MM1 since its release and MP1, MPP FOR almost 4 years now. For different reasons ive owned 7 different brand new MM1 (I can explain later LOL) not one time have I had the motor speed warning or had to change props cuz ive always stored them the same way. It can't be a fluke or coincidence. Now I'm not much for how to use a computer or a lot of techy stuff for that matter but I have like 2000 flight hours and can fly the heck out of one but non of that makes any difference when it comes to this that I feel very confident on and without knowing me personally that says more than you might think it does. Just tell me where I need to go to post pics and be able to discuss this. I feel as if I'm butting in at the wrong place. I don't do Forums and don't understand a lot about electronic stuff but please don't let that fact fool you when it comes to common sense. Hope you all welcome me with an open mind. This isn't rocket science and that it hasn't been figured out in all this time is baffling to me considering all the smart minds thats been trying to figure it out. Thanks for hearing me out thus far if you have, I'm looking forward to helping crack this conundrum once and for all
 
Just tell me where I need to go to post pics and be able to discuss this. I feel as if I'm butting in at the wrong place.
You've come to the right place. If you have pictures to post, when composing your post, just click on this icon (highlighted) at the top of the edit box, and either drag and drop your image into the popup box, or click on the box to browse to the location on your device to select the image you want to post.

Image1.jpg
 
To post a video, just copy paste the Youtube link directly into your message.
 
To post a video, just copy paste the Youtube link directly into your message.
Hey brother I just wrote out a Helluva long theory and hit send but im not seeing it and im certain my input that happens to be because of the perfect storm that could be the piece of the puzzle that shows the real picture and when I say perfect storm I mean in so many ways did this have to happen to get me thinking on the answer but that I ended up here the way I did to tell my theory to the right people in the right place. Me possibly knowing the answer wouldn't make a bit of difference if I didn't have a platform such as this to tell about it. Cuz I been trying in different groups to tell it but then get discounted halfway through it cuz I didn't feel as if If I was being heard seriously. I was smart enough to copy and paste my long spiel to my notes so there's that cuz I think if I hadnt have and it was lost I might have lost my will to try to come up with the words again. Let me know if it was posted. Maybe there's a delay on account that someone needs to approve it first but im not seeing it and ive got pics and screenshots of different things I looked up that that back most of what i say up. Im just not familiar with writting in a forum so untill I am this is all new to me. Thanks brother
 
If a well written guide to prop storage for the mini series is written that alleviates the warping of the props, then it would be considered for becoming a sticky post.
Then consider a sticky post.... I strongly believe I have this figured out. By strongly, meaning if this was a hand of poker I'd be ALL IN LOL it just took someone such as myself to simplify things back to the basics. You smart people were just over complicating things. In a year that ive been thinking about it and listening to people talk and bringing it up constantly in groups ive never heard one person mention heat. And that's gotta be the puzzle piece thats been missing that ties it all together and explains everything to where it makes sense. Its heat. I would like to find out if there's more issues by percentage in hotter climates. Bet there is. It would explain why some people have the issue a lot and some never have it. Not saying ALL people in hotter climates have the issue or all in cover climates don't but if you live in a hotter climate and are very good about never leaving it in your hot car ever, which would be more your professional photographers that take care of their equipment better and then you have some hobbyist that maybe more OCD about leaving it in a hot car in the middle of the summer cuz you know it will hurt battery life. Add those same personality traits to the mix and then add the climate I'm sure this is why noone has been able to make out a Rhyme or reason behind it all as to why it affects some and not another that lives in same town. Then you got the ones that are OCD or professionals that had a one time emergency or once in a year thing happen where they were forced to leave it in a hot car or hot sun somewhere to long or their kid sat it in front of a heater without thinking and without you maybe even knowing it. I'm gonna be convinced of this until someone PROVES me wrong scientifically.
 
[...] people will see my evidence along with how I explain them and agree with me. Its really the only logical way considering things like why just the tips don't get bent when I store them with my very simple and fast method [...] not one time have I had the motor speed warning or had to change props cuz I've always stored them the same way. It can't be a fluke or coincidence. [...] Just tell me where I need to go to post pics and be able to discuss this.

Just to eliminate the obvious, what version of firmware is your Mini running? The Motor Speed Error warning was first introduced in v01.00.0500. So, if you're running an earlier version of firmware that would be one reason why you've never seen the error message.

But if you are already on v01.00.0500, then there must be some other reason. I'd like to see photos of how you store your prop blades.

[...] I've never heard one person mention heat. And that's gotta be the puzzle piece that's been missing that ties it all together and explains everything to where it makes sense. It's heat.
Wouldn't you say that Virginia Beach is sometimes hot? Surely there's more than that to your theory.
 
Just to eliminate the obvious, what version of firmware is your Mini running? The Motor Speed Error warning was first introduced in v01.00.0500. So, if you're running an earlier version of firmware that would be one reason why you've never seen the error message.

But if you are already on v01.00.0500, then there must be some other reason. I'd like to see photos of how you store your prop blades.


Wouldn't you say that Virginia Beach is sometimes hot? Surely there's more than that to your theory.
There is more much more, I sent it all well over an hour ago it just hasn't been accepted to post yet. Along with pics and video
 
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