Mini 3 - 10Bit recording

RogerDH · May 19, 2022

Cymru said:
Its not a case of the sensor being capable - its the entire image processing pathway and bandwidth available behind the sensor that limits what is possible.
Secondary issues after that such as power consumption, heat dissipation etc.

Its rare the sensor is the limiting part.

Ambarella supplies the entire "system on a chip" -- I just mentioned that they use Sony sensors because it means the sensors are almost certainly not the limiting factor.

RogerDH · May 19, 2022

FWIW, it probably won't be long before there's a Mini 3 tear-down that will reveal the camera system used. If it's Ambarella, they have complete spec sheets on their site.

Cymru · May 19, 2022

RogerDH said:
Ambarella supplies the entire "system on a chip" -- I just mentioned that they use Sony sensors because it means the sensors are almost certainly not the limiting factor.

The system on the DJI drones is added by processing required for sensors, obstacle avoidance and the bandwidth of the read/write.
Same reason APAS wont work in 4k and so on. It does a lot of work on the image once it gets past the imaging pathway itself.
Everything is a tradeoff, especially under 250g with passive cooling.

RogerDH · May 19, 2022

Cymru said:
The system on the DJI drones is added by processing required for sensors, obstacle avoidance and the bandwidth of the read/write.
Same reason APAS wont work in 4k and so on. It does a lot of work on the image once it gets past the imaging pathway itself.
Everything is a tradeoff, especially under 250g with passive cooling.

And again, Ambarella -- not DJI -- provides the image processing all the way from the sensor to the memory card. DJI's controlling software can make use of the SoC's functionality or not. For example, the Ambarella SoC on the Mini 1 provided the object recognition AI subsystem that's required for ActiveTrack, but DJI only used that subsystem for some of its QuickShots.

J04DAN · May 19, 2022

Well this seems to confirm it.

I’m rarely this wrong and this happy about it at the same time. I’m just praying DJI don’t reverse it.

Cymru · May 19, 2022

RogerDH said:
And again, Ambarella -- not DJI -- provides the image processing all the way from the sensor to the memory card. DJI's controlling software can make use of the SoC's functionality or not. For example, the Ambarella SoC on the Mini 1 provided the object recognition AI subsystem that's required for ActiveTrack, but DJI only used that subsystem for some of its QuickShots.

Were not just talking "to the memory card".
A LOT of other processing goes on related to those SOCs, some of it requires specific format and bandwidth image data.

RogerDH · May 19, 2022

Cymru said:
Were not just talking "to the memory card".
A LOT of other processing goes on related to those SOCs, some of it requires specific format and bandwidth image data.

I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about, or what your point is. If the Mini 3 is capable of D-cinelike at 10-bits, it's because the SoC has that functionality, and DJI's software is enabling it, which may not have been their original intent, which may be why it wasn't mentioned in the first press releases.

Cymru · May 19, 2022

The point is just because some sensors are capable doesnt mean the hardware overall is able to do it.

And in the case of 10bit here we still don't know for sure if its (i) real or (ii) deliberate.

Its quite possible some part of the hardware is unable to stably support true 10 bit video due to bandwidth, processing, thermal or other constraints even if they sensor itself can support it.
Or if it does do it, whether its stable.
First thing needed is to see if we do actually have proper 10 bit data in video and make sure its not just some side effect of how the dual native iso/hq is presented.

karlblessing · May 20, 2022

IF the Mini 3 has 10-bit 4:2:0, then give the Air 2S and up 10-bit 4:2:2

miemo · May 20, 2022

According to the Philip Bloom update video, the reason why DJI didn't have 10bit originally available was that they didn't believe the CPU & cooling were up to it (much more data to push around). Somehow something changed, and here we have it.

RogerDH · May 20, 2022

miemo said:
According to the Philip Bloom update video, the reason why DJI didn't have 10bit originally available was that they didn't believe the CPU & cooling were up to it (much more data to push around). Somehow something changed, and here we have it.

That's the same "semi-official" reason given for not enabling 4K video in the original Mini, but was somehow overcome with the Mini 2. None of the 4K "action" cameras that used the same Ambarella SoC as the Mini 1 have cooling fans, but... whatever -- DJI works in mysterious ways.