Mini 5 Pro down over water...

[MS Coast]

It seems to me that Meta4 is saying that this forum should be the equivalent of a physics graduate school class where you may only present your theory and the scientific facts supporting it.

So is this site conducted by Meta4's rules or is it the free flow of ideas?

Good gosh. Of course, only moderators can remove posts or remove members from the forum. Where has anyone else attempted to filter, block, or control someone else's posts?

Are we afraid of hurting someone's feelings by disagreeing with or criticizing their speculations about the cause of a problem? I'd hope that we're mature enough not to have to cater to some pre-school class notion that "everyone's each and very opinion is equally valuable." Some ideas are just plain wrong.

Yes, everyone is welcome to pose an idea. If it's unreasonable or illogical, everyone else should be welcome to say so. Politely, of course. Wildly tossing out illogical ideas is not helpful. Defending them after they've been shown not to be valid is worse.

 

[AeroJ]

I didn't mind that someone other than me pointed out that my theory about what happened was a guess - just that the implication seemed to be that it was therefore utterly worthless as a contribution and I should feel somehow ashamed of myself for positing it !

 

[msinger]

My thought is that this forum ideally can be a healthy mixture of science, theory, observations, and opinion.

Of course, just as it should be.

 

[AeroJ]

Wildly tossing out illogical ideas is not helpful. Defending them after they've been shown not to be valid is worse.

I hope that wasn't aimed at me ! My guess may yet turn out to be wrong, but you couldn't call it illogical from the symptoms on display, and I remain convinced that this assertion is defensible and supported, so doing that wouldn't be worse ! But anyway, I don't need to die on this hill, so won't bang on about it any more... thank you to everyone to gave an opinion, whether it agreed with mine or not !

 

[MS Coast]

I hope that wasn't aimed at me ! My guess may yet turn out to be wrong, but you couldn't call it illogical from the symptoms on display, and I remain convinced that this assertion is defensible and supported, so doing that wouldn't be worse ! But anyway, I don't need to die on this hill, so won't bang on about it any more... thank you to everyone to gave an opinion, whether it agreed with mine or not !

No, not aimed at anyone in particular. Rather, it's more a comment on the way in which speculations not supported by flight logs or by documented and reliable observations take on a life of their own and grow. I'm weary of seeing this problem on an enormous scale in the US. "They're eating the dogs!" Tylenol causes autism. Based on a flawed news story, the military is told to "prepare for action in Nigeria."

Specific to this forum, the "DJI ban" has grown into a bugaboo that includes imagined forced shutdown of all DJI drones in the US, blocked websites, elimination of software and firmware updates in the US, the FAA drone registry being blocked to registrations.

Others include sensor "confusion" over water, firmware updates as the cause of any problem that occurs afterwards, exorbitant FAA penalties for trivial infractions, a general altitude minimum of 500' for manned aircraft, a RID-facilitated crime wave, ...

Without evidence or a cause-and-effect suggestion you and others blame a propeller problem for the gross instability shown in the video. I don't see an indication of that. If a propeller blade failed to open, the drone would not have taken off and flown. If an entire propeller fell off, the drone would rotate out of control. A lesser failure in a propeller could cause a continuous vibration. (Vibration as in the transient gimbal movement immediately after takeoff as distinguished from the gross instability seen in the rest of the video.) What sort of problem with a propeller might cause the drone to act as it did?

Other than five Youtube comments, have we heard of any similar failures? It's difficult to suspect that there's a significant problem with the Mini 5 Pro failing in this manner. Yet, this one video has created suspicions of a massive problem that could justify a class action suit.

Tylenol, anyone?

 

[mavic3usa]

edit: posted in wrong thread

 

[Felix le Chat]

Looks like there may be a potential issue with props not locking in correctly with the M5Ps...

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Check the comments under this one - tons of people seem to be getting this issue, so popping it here as a general warning to those who have one...

Interesting to note the one thing not mentioned in all the learned and scientific responses... the artificial horizon smack-bang in the middle of the screen recording. You don't need to trawl through the demanded flight logs to see the violent alterations in roll.

On top of that the almost continuous red banner pop-up warning about obstructed motor or propellers "...blocked or frozen..." are a bit of a dead giveaway that the drone itself was identifying the problem without "expert" analysis.... Tylenol anyone?

 

[MS Coast]

Interesting to note the one thing not mentioned in all the learned and scientific responses... the artificial horizon smack-bang in the middle of the screen recording. You don't need to trawl through the demanded flight logs to see the violent alterations in roll.

Well, it's patently obvious from the screen image itself that the drone was unstable and rolling violently. What's not obvious is WHY? The flight log would provide solid clues.

By the way, did you notice that the superimposed attitude indicator in the Youtube video doesn't follow the roll of the drone? Beginning at about 0:19, watch the screen image roll erratically while the attitude indicator remains static.

On top of that the almost continuous red banner pop-up warning about obstructed motor or propellers "...blocked or frozen..." are a bit of a dead giveaway that the drone itself was identifying the problem without "expert" analysis.... Tylenol anyone?

The error message actually says "Motor overloaded" and suggests checking for two possible causes. Those are not the only two possibilities. "Motor overloaded" is a symptom, not the root problem. Again, the flight log might provide more factual information. There's no dead giveaway cause mentioned.

(Be aware that error messages don't always relate explicitly to the actual event that called them in the program. A good example is the "Your firmware is up to date" message that appears when you check for updates on the FlySafe database.)

So far, no one has posed a 'learned and scientific' cause of the problem that drone experienced. But several folks have rejected what people described as their guesses and assumptions.

Tylenol? Ignoring published study results, the Secretary of HHS and the President publicly condemned Tylenol as a cause of autism and directed pregnant women not to use it. Not long after, the Secretary announced that the evidence did not support his earlier contention. I mention it as an example of making conclusions without solid evidence.

 

[Meta4]

It seems to me that Meta4 is saying that this forum should be the equivalent of a physics graduate school class where you may only present your theory and the scientific facts supporting it.

It seems to me that you are making assumptions that aren't backed with any evidence.

Others participate here freely sharing ideas, observations, and opinions, often without logs or proof to support those opinions. So is this site conducted by Meta4's rules or is it the free flow of ideas?

Is this thread conducted by your rules or am I allowed to have some input too?
Do you have an objection to informed comment among the uninformed guesswork from those who aren't interested in factual information?

 

[Felix le Chat]

Well, it's patently obvious from the screen image itself that the drone was unstable and rolling violently. What's not obvious is WHY? The flight log would provide solid clues.

By the way, did you notice that the superimposed attitude indicator in the Youtube video doesn't follow the roll of the drone? Beginning at about 0:19, watch the screen image roll erratically while the attitude indicator remains static.



The error message actually says "Motor overloaded" and suggests checking for two possible causes. Those are not the only two possibilities. "Motor overloaded" is a symptom, not the root problem. Again, the flight log might provide more factual information. There's no dead giveaway cause mentioned.

(Be aware that error messages don't always relate explicitly to the actual event that called them in the program. A good example is the "Your firmware is up to date" message that appears when you check for updates on the FlySafe database.)

So far, no one has posed a 'learned and scientific' cause of the problem that drone experienced. But several folks have rejected what people described as their guesses and assumptions.

Tylenol? Ignoring published study results, the Secretary of HHS and the President publicly condemned Tylenol as a cause of autism and directed pregnant women not to use it. Not long after, the Secretary announced that the evidence did not support his earlier contention. I mention it as an example of making conclusions without solid evidence.

Love the way you're ignoring the second part of the warning message... you know... the sentence that clearly reads "...propellers blocked or frozen...". So that'll be the drone diagnostics jumping to unfounded conclusions without solid evidence as well?

What is interesting to note is the fact that DJI is already well aware of the potential for motor overload or stall with this model... otherwise they wouldn't publish the clear warning and advice in the user manual... or perhaps that's the manufacturer jumping to wild conclusions too.

 

[Meta4]

Love the way you're ignoring the second part of the warning message... you know... the sentence that clearly reads "...propellers blocked or frozen...". So that'll be the drone diagnostics jumping to unfounded conclusions without solid evidence as well?

DJI's warning messages aren't the whole story and are sometimes misleading or completely wrong.
A couple of times I've seen a message telling me that a propeller has come off when the drone is flying normally.
The message suggests there is a propulsion issue, but one cannot make assumptions about what that issue might be.


It would be interesting to find out what actually happened in this incident, but we only have 40 seconds of video full of jumpy edits, alternately showing the camera view and warning messages.
We don't have the camera view for the whole 40 seconds and even if we did, the gimbal is trying to hold the camera level and giving a false depiction of the drone's movements.
Anyone thinking they can tell the cause of the incident from the warning messages and the fragmented video is fooling themselves.

Because it looks to be an interesting incident, I emailed the drone flyer to see if he would post flight data, but have had no response from him.

 

[MS Coast]

Love the way you're ignoring the second part of the warning message... you know... the sentence that clearly reads "...propellers blocked or frozen...". So that'll be the drone diagnostics jumping to unfounded conclusions without solid evidence as well?

I'm not ignoring the message, but you are ignoring most of it. The message says, "Motor overloaded. Land promptly or cancel takeoff. Check whether motors and propellers are blocked or have frozen".

It says to check; it does not jump to unfounded conclusions.

But let's say the message is definitive. Why do you take it to mean that there's a problem with a propeller? Why not a frozen motor?

What is interesting to note is the fact that DJI is already well aware of the potential for motor overload or stall with this model... otherwise they wouldn't publish the clear warning and advice in the user manual... or perhaps that's the manufacturer jumping to wild conclusions too.

Which of those items do not apply to every other DJI drone model? Where is the clear warning specific to the Mini 5 Pro?

If we adopt your logic, we could also declare that DJI is well aware of a problem with motors falling off the Mini 5 Pro. It's clearly identified there.

 

[Felix le Chat]

I'm not ignoring the message, but you are ignoring most of it. The message says, "Motor overloaded. Land promptly or cancel takeoff. Check whether motors and propellers are blocked or have frozen".

It says to check; it does not jump to unfounded conclusions.

But let's say the message is definitive. Why do you take it to mean that there's a problem with a propeller? Why not a frozen motor?



Which of those items do not apply to every other DJI drone model? Where is the clear warning specific to the Mini 5 Pro?

If we adopt your logic, we could also declare that DJI is well aware of a problem with motors falling off the Mini 5 Pro. It's clearly identified there.

View attachment 186375

There you go again... cherry picking your quotes to support your narrative - leaving out the "...if the motor overloads or stalls during flight..."

What I've typed does not require logic nor 'interpretation'. It is a simple reiteration of DJI printed material illustrating known causal factors that may lead to mechanical problems during flight. Mechanical problems that would manifest in recorded footage as wild shifts in attitude and movement... as illustrated in the recorded footage... as already mentioned in the posts you decided to sneer at and pick apart.

 

[MS Coast]

There you go again... cherry picking your quotes to support your narrative - leaving out the "...if the motor overloads or stalls during flight..."

Ok, here's the rest of the bullet point. It wasn't relevant. The point was that DJI suggests checking that the motors are mounted securely and that suggestion is no more indicative of a general problem with the Mini 5 Pro than the suggestion to check the propellers.

What I've typed does not require logic nor 'interpretation'. It is a simple reiteration of DJI printed material illustrating known causal factors that may lead to mechanical problems during flight. Mechanical problems that would manifest in recorded footage as wild shifts in attitude and movement... as illustrated in the recorded footage... as already mentioned in the posts you decided to sneer at and pick apart.

That material on propellers applies to all DJI models. It provides no indication of a problem with propeller failures with the Mini 5 Pro model in general.

There is no clear indication of a propeller problem in the video from post #1. I don't claim to know the cause of the problem. No sneering.

Here's another situation where a somewhat sensationalized Youtube video has declared that a problem exists without clear evidence and a cascade of guesses and assumptions has expanded into an inherent propeller fault with the Mini 5 Pro that is leading to a class action lawsuit.

My Mini 5 Pro flies just fine and I see no need for a cry of "Wolf!" to other owners or potential buyers.

 

[Felix le Chat]

Ok, here's the rest of the bullet point. It wasn't relevant. The point was that DJI suggests checking that the motors are mounted securely and that suggestion is no more indicative of a general problem with the Mini 5 Pro than the suggestion to check the propellers.

View attachment 186378


That material on propellers applies to all DJI models. It provides no indication of a problem with propeller failures with the Mini 5 Pro model in general.

There is no clear indication of a propeller problem in the video from post #1. I don't claim to know the cause of the problem. No sneering.

Here's another situation where a somewhat sensationalized Youtube video has declared that a problem exists without clear evidence and a cascade of guesses and assumptions has expanded into an inherent propeller fault with the Mini 5 Pro that is leading to a class action lawsuit.

My Mini 5 Pro flies just fine and I see no need for a cry of "Wolf!" to other owners or potential buyers.

"...My Mini 5 Pro flies just fine and I see no need for a cry of "Wolf!" to other owners or potential buyers..."

That's the one you own, which isn't every other one so far released, so it's hardly the yardstick to measure all m5p's. That's like saying that because you never ended up with a dodgy Mavic 2 battery: all reports of a dodgy batch of Mavic 2 batteries were spurious (recall the 2019/2020 incident where hundreds of these batteries were recalled or replaced free of charge due to a manufacturing fault).

The original post was a suggestion of a potential problem and a warning that it might be wise to make sure props were spread and locked open before take off... Good common sense with any folding prop quad.

The consecutive comments about how the drone was behaving in the posted footage and suggestions as to the root reason do have a basis in fact.

Have you had the experience of attempting to control a Yuneec H520 with one motor that's gone tits-up?

The best simile is to suggest it's like trying to steer a rodeo bull... and that's with a drone that has six motors... a quadcopter with a dickey prop or stalled motor hasn't got a hope in hell of being controlled, let alone landed safely.

The behaviour characteristics of that Yuneec H520 were slightly less extreme than displayed in the OP footage... but they were bloody similar.

 

[MS Coast]

"...My Mini 5 Pro flies just fine and I see no need for a cry of "Wolf!" to other owners or potential buyers..."

That's the one you own, which isn't every other one so far released, so it's hardly the yardstick to measure all m5p's.

Yes, I agree completely!

And, I hope you'll agree that one highly manipulated Youtube video and a few speculative comments don't indicate a general propeller fault with Mini 5 Pro drones and an impending class action lawsuit.

 

[BossBob]

Three pages of posts all because a (really badly put together) YouTube video about the loss of a drone was put in a forum area that is normally used by pilots asking for assistance in discerning the cause of a crash! The YouTuber wasn’t even asking for help, just putting up some more clickbait. So he’s got clicks and therefore money, a new drone from DJI and we’ve got members arguing about a possible cause of the crash that no one can work out because there’s no data. We’ll never know the cause. All we can do is our preflight checks and fly safely.
Have a good day. It’s not worth arguing about!