Neighbour upset for flying next to his property.

[NetDoc]

An aggrieved party may initiate a civil action against a law enforcement agency to obtain all appropriate relief in order to prevent or remedy a violation of this section.

I've been sued before. I own the largest website/forum for divers in the world and have been hit a few times for things others have posted and they've lost every single one. Yes, I was out the money, so I got inventive. I have since found that people who want to sue over privacy hate to have their names blasted out over the interwebs. Now, at the first threat or sign of a lawsuit, I publish their hate mail for the world to see. Some say it's playing 'dirty', but it's simply self-preservation. So far, every person I've done that to has quickly withdrawn their threat. If you're a Scuba business, the last thing you want to do is piss off the peeps on ScubaBoard and attacking me will do just that.

When it comes to drones, I'll fly in public places like streets and over the bay. If for some reason someone shows agitation over my drone, I'll do what I did there and move on. It's not worth the hassle, but you can bet it will be the same people over and over again, putting their nose where it doesn't belong and then crying about privacy. Life is too short to deal with such jerks.

 

[zoomie]

Where this gets grey is that people are legally permitted to have privacy where they expect it. That's obviously super vague. Back in the day before drones or quadcopters became so popular, people did expect privacy from a view above their homes unless your next to a hill/mountain or something. The typical way of looking in would be limited from the street.

As people become more aware that their backyards are exposed from the new technology, it'll be their burden to "protect" themselves there. They'll always want things to be "how they used to be." Ignorance on their part, but as drone fliers, we should be respectful too as the OP has been. We need to protect our name and make sure that people don't think we're a bunch of jerks. Sometimes that'll mean backing down even when we're within legal right. It's more of a social issue than a legal one.

The only reason we're so free to fly drones is b/c it's still fairly new to the consumer market. It's still not big enough to really gather the attention of too much regulation. If we want it to remain that way, we need to stay shaking hands with our neighbors and not creating a big upset. Part of this is educating pilots I believe part of the role of this forum is to do.

If we can prevent one newb from flying into someone else's property, that's better for everyone.

 

[Noleafclover1337]

While I don't disagree with what you said above, we shouldn't have to deal with harassment scenarios either. A cop showed up at my door (again) today saying the neighbor saw me filming inside their window, even when I fly on my property. He didn't have a leg to stand on when I questioned how this is different than a cell phone and assured him I wasn't stationary recording and that it's a false claim. I dunno, it can go both ways, I almost wish there was more regulation so that we can define what is right or wrong instead of playing guessing games with uneducated authority.

 

[P4P Commander]

What do you mean by that? I am not sure if I understand your comment.



Actually it is "gray area" without owners consent. Technically land owner does not own air space directly above, FAA is in control of that (as far as I know).
It is not nice and polite to peek into others windows and gardens, but is it illegal when I am passing by in my car? Why should be perceived any other way when drone flies by. I was not hovering in that area, not even for a second. Just making aerial view of the my house by orbiting along the local roads.
Here is funny part. When I watched over my footage after neighbor visit, to make sure what happened, I noticed his wife taking pictures of me!!! I was sitting on my second floor deck, widely exposed, watching drone flyby, and she was hiding in the cypress trees, recording me doing that Who is spying now?!
I did say it somewhere else. Taking picture or recording video from public location is not invading privacy. Making it public by posting in public media (inet, local newspaper or tv) is. That is the difference most of the people tend to not understand.



Totally agree, not nice. Unfortunately that is reality these days. We are being scrutinized all the time... and not by the drones only... google maps, phones, computers, smart TVs...

So I can Stop my neighbor from Cooking outside because the smell of cooking Meat makes me sick?......This is why We live in the Country! and not 3 feet on all sides from neighbors.....

 

[P4P Commander]

The territorial imperative of our species is amazingly strong. I was snorkeling in Florida bay (N side of Tavernier here in the Florida Keys) with a friend. There were scads of lobsters hiding among the sea wall by the homes on the water. We had been out about ninety minutes and were on the home approach to the Homeowner's Park where we went in at. So this guy walks out and loudly proclaims "I don't want to create a hassle, but out there's yours and this is mine!" After the third time repeating it and with my friend nervously heading further out, I asked him directly. "What do you think we're doing wrong here?" "Nothing, and you're making this into a hassle which I didn't want! Just remember..." to which I cut him off with a "Stow it, mister! Call the police if you think we're breaking any laws. My conversation with you is over!" You just can't reason with an unreasonable person!

So, I'm practicing doing flyovers on my neighbor hood and made certain that I came down and took a good look off of his sea wall. Lots of pretty fishies and sure enough, I see him waving his arms at my drone like a monkey on speed. 2 phreakin' phunni. However, there's nothing there I really want to see, so I'll play elsewhere. I'm not going to give in to this neighborhood bully, but I'm not going to court disaster either.

The good thing tho is all the Data you have on your Drone! that show's exactly where you were at what time and how long you were there! They don't know that!!

 

[zoomie]

While I don't disagree with what you said above, we shouldn't have to deal with harassment scenarios either. A cop showed up at my door (again) today saying the neighbor saw me filming inside their window, even when I fly on my property. He didn't have a leg to stand on when I questioned how this is different than a cell phone and assured him I wasn't stationary recording and that it's a false claim. I dunno, it can go both ways, I almost wish there was more regulation so that we can define what is right or wrong instead of playing guessing games with uneducated authority.

Your last sentence: yes, yes yes yes! I agree so much. Even if the rules were strict, at least we would know what they were, when and in what location they apply. Now it's indeed a guessing game. I just got a reply from SF after inquiring specifically about drone laws and they straight up said that there aren't any. Those flying there need to understand though that Park and Recreation division although in SF is a different jurisdiction and has their own rules. I question the application to drones, but that's a different matter.

I've been piecing together codes from other cities and some say that you can't fly below 300' over a residence. I guess someone determined that anything higher than 300' wouldn't be considered snooping since you can't see much of anything at that height. With FAA regulating us to stay below 400', it suggests there's a gap in the sky between 300'-400' where we can fly. I don't recall the city this was in, but it makes sense and I'd be okay with SF adopting that. However, 300' is a bit arbitrary.

The less attention we draw to ourselves, the less complaints there will be. I do hope this is a fad and people will forget about it. I don't know if I sit on both sides of the fence, but I can see a benefit if regulations were to go in either direction.

 

[EMI326]

What do you mean by that? I am not sure if I understand your comment.



Actually it is "gray area" without owners consent. Technically land owner does not own air space directly above, FAA is in control of that (as far as I know).
It is not nice and polite to peek into others windows and gardens, but is it illegal when I am passing by in my car? Why should be perceived any other way when drone flies by. I was not hovering in that area, not even for a second. Just making aerial view of the my house by orbiting along the local roads.
Here is funny part. When I watched over my footage after neighbor visit, to make sure what happened, I noticed his wife taking pictures of me!!! I was sitting on my second floor deck, widely exposed, watching drone flyby, and she was hiding in the cypress trees, recording me doing that Who is spying now?!
I did say it somewhere else. Taking picture or recording video from public location is not invading privacy. Making it public by posting in public media (inet, local newspaper or tv) is. That is the difference most of the people tend to not understand.


...

I have to disagree...

It is NOT a gray area. They have NO control of the airspace over their property and there are no legal grounds for a criminal complaint. Furthermore, your explanation of "invading privacy" is not quite on the mark. As a legal definition you can take photos and video in public, and of anything you can see from public grounds. You CAN publish these images and videos in newspapers, tv, etc... the distinction is between editorial use and commercial use. If you are using the content to educate or inform, its fair use. If you are using it to advertise or otherwise make money from the person's likeness or their property than it becomes commercial use and you need a model/property release.

Its important to understand our legal rights when faced with hostile neighbors, strangers, or law enforcement. While I don't suggest blatantly standing your ground just because you legally can, I always take the time to explain to people what the law actually says so they (hopefully) are no longer under the impression they have legal grounds to force you to stop. If I am flying purely for recreation and someone tells me it is disturbing them, I am likely to find a different place. If I am flying for money and need to be where I am, I will give them an estimate of when I'll be done.

I was doing a test flight in a park once and a soccer coach asked me (and not very politely) to fly elsewhere because his team was ignoring him and watching me. I chose to comply despite that the guy was a jerk, so his kids would be able to focus on their practice.

In your situation I would try to educated the neighbors as to the legality and reality of what I was doing. Perhaps show them images so they understand you aren't zooming in on them smooching in their back yard. That said, climbing a tree to peek over your back yard fence and film you is pretty damned creepy.

 

[Lubelaczek]

I have to disagree...

It is NOT a gray area. They have NO control of the airspace over their property and there are no legal grounds for a criminal complaint. Furthermore, your explanation of "invading privacy" is not quite on the mark. As a legal definition you can take photos and video in public, and of anything you can see from public grounds. You CAN publish these images and videos in newspapers, tv, etc... the distinction is between editorial use and commercial use. If you are using the content to educate or inform, its fair use. If you are using it to advertise or otherwise make money from the person's likeness or their property than it becomes commercial use and you need a model/property release.

Its important to understand our legal rights when faced with hostile neighbors, strangers, or law enforcement. While I don't suggest blatantly standing your ground just because you legally can, I always take the time to explain to people what the law actually says so they (hopefully) are no longer under the impression they have legal grounds to force you to stop. If I am flying purely for recreation and someone tells me it is disturbing them, I am likely to find a different place. If I am flying for money and need to be where I am, I will give them an estimate of when I'll be done.

I was doing a test flight in a park once and a soccer coach asked me (and not very politely) to fly elsewhere because his team was ignoring him and watching me. I chose to comply despite that the guy was a jerk, so his kids would be able to focus on their practice.

In your situation I would try to educated the neighbors as to the legality and reality of what I was doing. Perhaps show them images so they understand you aren't zooming in on them smooching in their back yard. That said, climbing a tree to peek over your back yard fence and film you is pretty damned creepy.

I did call it "gray". However it was more for my lack of knowledge of applicable laws. All that started because I was convinced that my test flights never crossed any guidelines. Neighbor took me by surprise. My first thought was: Maybe I did something wrong. Then I watched the log and footage and it become clear that this guy just tried to scare me. Went right back to him with printout of flying path. He was listening but his woman was calling me names and like broken record repeating "this is illegal". There is no chance in foreseeable future to educate this female. Spying/peeping on her is last and desperate thing that could cross my mind. Not trying to be rude but there are younger and better looking neighbors in my area to be on "peeping tom's target". She will not even make to the first 20...
You just made a point. If we follow our regulations they can scream as much as they want, but we want to avoid this, that is right.

 

[Toruk Makto]

I have been testing some new options and filters today using Mission Hub on Litchi. Did 3 flights less than 2 minutes each, and then heard knocking on my door. My neighbor announced to me that his wife is upset by my drone flying above his property. I said politely that I am sorry and this will not happened again. Long story short, we shake hands and... I went back to check the log. No surprise to me there. Mavic never crossed his property line (marked with red). I was flying along the road at roughly 200' next to his fence, 100% of the time within LOS.

I thought this is perfectly legal in this case and I still think it is. Correct me please, if I am wrong. When I went back to him, we talked, showed him a log. I was as polite as possible and he was willing to talk. Yet his wife (60+) was still on highest point of ballistic. Regardless. I did make him aware that this was not my intention to upset anyone and I am not going ever to enter air space directly above his property. We shake hands again and this should be end of story. That is what I hope...
Now the question is: If I ever fly within my property perimeter, next to his or anybody else fence or along the road as shown on screen-shot, is there any ground to blame me for breaking law or because of so called "privacy"?
Truth is I will probably never fly again on my backyard as long as he lives here. Just want to be prepared for any more clowns with nothing else to do, will show up on my doorsteps...

I guess the 50m away from people or buildings law dont apply to you?

 

[Lubelaczek]

I guess the 50m away from people or buildings law dont apply to you?

Why the sarcasm? We all try to discuss here how to help others prevent similar encounters.
First. Where you got conclusion that I did fly less than 50 meters from people or building? The path on picture represents 150-200 ft altitude, my most common.
Second. What regulation applicable to Long Island states that 50 meters distance?
Third. Are you trying to say that having property smaller than 100 meters across we are not allowed to fly our birds in own backyard?
Criticism and constructive comments are always welcome. IMHO, your does not bring any good to this discussion.

 

[Toruk Makto]

I was going to answer each point in turn but quite frankly Im sick of trying to explain to ******** what the law is.

Good luck. You have a lot to learn.

 

[zoomie]

First off, the whole point of this forum is to share ideas. So if you're not willing to educate and are instead being sarcastic and just trolling, you're missing the point of the forum.

You're in the UK. Laws are different in the US. FAA says we can't be over people nor within 25' of a person or persons. I respect that there are laws in your own country, but in the USA where Lubelaczek lives, there's no 50m law unless it's a City thing. And I believe he lives in the Country where I doubt they even have actual regulations. Even a City like SF has recognized they don't have drone laws. Despite that, rangers still reference section 3.09 here which in my interpretation and clearly the City does not apply to drones.

 

[CoolBreeze]

The attached link may add to the confusion.

Navigable Airspace: Where Private Property Rights End and Navigable Airspace Begins | On the Radar

 

[Slayerstwin]

This one is paranoid "to and beyond horizon". I did fly above 200 straight up, but she was "alerted" by lunch and landing. Did it 3 times to test all 3 new filters. She was not able to locate it at first and second launch so started to record me sitting on the second story deck widely visible, like on the stage. Third time during lunch she was hiding in cypress trees next to fence. That is how she spotted it. Pathetic.

Next time fly naked. That's what I would do. So her next video will make her look like a peeping tom [emoji106]

 

[dewster]

I think your neighbor know that his wife is hysterical and is asking for help in keeping the peace inside of his house. Lol.

 

[Toruk Makto]

First off, the whole point of this forum is to share ideas. So if you're not willing to educate and are instead being sarcastic and just trolling, you're missing the point of the forum.

You're in the UK. Laws are different in the US. FAA says we can't be over people nor within 25' of a person or persons. I respect that there are laws in your own country, but in the USA where Lubelaczek lives, there's no 50m law unless it's a City thing. And I believe he lives in the Country where I doubt they even have actual regulations. Even a City like SF has recognized they don't have drone laws. Despite that, rangers still reference section 3.09 here which in my interpretation and clearly the City does not apply to drones.

Heres an Idea Id like to share:

Your complete lack of safety thought together with your inexperience will one day lead to a situation you will regret.
FLYING OVER ROADS AND HOUSES IS DANGEROUS.
It might not be your fault...there could be a motor failure that forces the mavic off course and uncontrolable.
THATS WHY THERE ARE REGULATIONS.
When your drone lands in a cot in someones garden and maims a child... I will fund the prosecution.

if you feel your 'cleverly' getting one over the rules and dont care about your neighbours concerns, it will end in tears. YOURS, when your taken to court.

Your a ****.

 

[Bazzam]

When your drone lands in a cot in someones garden and maims a child... I will fund the prosecution.
Your a ****.

Well thats Game,set and match, I'm off the my bed....i can't take anymore of this
Please god I don't have hellish nightmares of....arhhh.... butchered innocent babies, in cute pink cots, in the garden.... bad mavic, bad mavic

 

[Michael Ainsworth]

 

[Rnl]

Your the !!! Here buddy he did nothing wrong, please hold your tongue we don't need you here.

 

[NetDoc]

FAA says we can't be over people nor within 25' of a person or persons.

One thing about this law I never understood... is that a total distance or is it a horizontal distance. I can't fly over someone, but is 25 ft up and one foot over completely acceptable?