New Pilot -- frustrated

[ddodell]

So like everyone else, I too am a new pilot in the Phoenix AZ area.

Finding it VERY difficult to fly legally and being a good hobby drone pilot. I even registered with the FAA even though I know it isn't required because I felt that it was a good idea, because I wanted to be in compliance with them, even though the courts might not agree.

Multiple sites trying to find out where in the area is legal to fly ... so understand can't fly in a National Park, state lands can't get straight answer, federal lands (BLM?) that are NOT wilderness areas are ok ... some cities have information on their website about Drone friendly parks ... others do not (including the one I live in) ...

Called my city park's department, and they were very nice on the phone ... they explained that there are no parks right now that are technically ok, but due to recent changes in state law, they are coming online with two parks in the near future. They also told me that I was the first phone call they have ever received asking this question.

An adjacent city has an approved park, but within 5 miles of an airport ... spent 30 minutes trying to find the tower's phone number to notify them ... gave up ... when I got home finally found the number after an hour of Google searching ... spoke to the tower direct about 11 pm in the evening while they were quiet ... they were very polite and helpful, told me what number to call in the future, and info I need ... and told me again that I was the first call they have received in months.

Was going to try and fly in another local city today ( that does post approved drone parks ) ... another control tower, can't find number ... found airport operations who would not give me the number ... took my number, called me back ... said they talk to the tower and since there was not a supervisor on duty they could not authorize me ... to call back between 8 and 3 Monday to Friday business hours. Really??? The operations guy was sympathetic, told me he told the tower that here was someone trying to do the right thing, and they had no procedures in place to authorize. And the city which has multiple "approved drone parks" within the 5 mile radius of a busy airport ( Scottsdale ... supposed to be one of the busiest single runway airports in the US).

Bottom line, I'm spending more time researching on legal places to fly, trying to notify towers etc, then I'm actual flying ...

I looked at some of the "map" apps and website, and they show me the same info I already know .. I'm within 5 miles of a tower, but the rest of the state / federal land, I'm taking a guess.

I spoke to several other drone pilots I have run into, and they basically thought I was crazy to doing all of this research ... they fly where ever they want ...

So what is a newbie to do?

 

[mkp2020]

I visited Arizona in April, and thought it was an excellent place to fly. A large part of the state is so open that you can just drive a few miles out of any town and pick a spot. Lots of National Forest land too - and unlike National Parks it is not prohibited to fly in those. Lots of areas where there are no airports for miles and miles. If you confine yourself to the cities then yes, it will be more challenging to find good locations. Also if you check in the forum you will find some pilots who meet and fly in various locations in Arizona - lots of pilots there.

 

[Bunny Too]

So like everyone else, I too am a new pilot in the Phoenix AZ area.

Finding it VERY difficult to fly legally and being a good hobby drone pilot. I even registered with the FAA even though I know it isn't required because I felt that it was a good idea, because I wanted to be in compliance with them, even though the courts might not agree.

Multiple sites trying to find out where in the area is legal to fly ... so understand can't fly in a National Park, state lands can't get straight answer, federal lands (BLM?) that are NOT wilderness areas are ok ... some cities have information on their website about Drone friendly parks ... others do not (including the one I live in) ...

Called my city park's department, and they were very nice on the phone ... they explained that there are no parks right now that are technically ok, but due to recent changes in state law, they are coming online with two parks in the near future. They also told me that I was the first phone call they have ever received asking this question.

An adjacent city has an approved park, but within 5 miles of an airport ... spent 30 minutes trying to find the tower's phone number to notify them ... gave up ... when I got home finally found the number after an hour of Google searching ... spoke to the tower direct about 11 pm in the evening while they were quiet ... they were very polite and helpful, told me what number to call in the future, and info I need ... and told me again that I was the first call they have received in months.

Was going to try and fly in another local city today ( that does post approved drone parks ) ... another control tower, can't find number ... found airport operations who would not give me the number ... took my number, called me back ... said they talk to the tower and since there was not a supervisor on duty they could not authorize me ... to call back between 8 and 3 Monday to Friday business hours. Really??? The operations guy was sympathetic, told me he told the tower that here was someone trying to do the right thing, and they had no procedures in place to authorize. And the city which has multiple "approved drone parks" within the 5 mile radius of a busy airport ( Scottsdale ... supposed to be one of the busiest single runway airports in the US).

Bottom line, I'm spending more time researching on legal places to fly, trying to notify towers etc, then I'm actual flying ...

I looked at some of the "map" apps and website, and they show me the same info I already know .. I'm within 5 miles of a tower, but the rest of the state / federal land, I'm taking a guess.

I spoke to several other drone pilots I have run into, and they basically thought I was crazy to doing all of this research ... they fly where ever they want ...

So what is a newbie to do?

Howdy from Wyoming ddodell, welcome to the community, plenty of fine folk and excellent information here.

 

[XmanAZ]

Howdy from Wyoming ddodell, welcome to the community, plenty of fine folk and excellent information here.

Hello there, I live up north on the Navajo Reservation and there's lots of places here to fly. Being Navajo I was able to fly around Monument Valley

 

[ddodell]

Hello there, I live up north on the Navajo Reservation and there's lots of places here to fly. Being Navajo I was able to fly around Monument Valley

Your lucky, beautiful country ...

 

[DomoDan]

Just stay 5 miles away from the airport and fly. I fly all over. The city, the suburbs, the forest, etc...

If the FAA app tells me I’m good, I just fly. Never had a problem.

 

[LuvMyTJ]

Hello,
It is a pleasure to welcome you to the Mavic Pilots forum.
I hope that you will be able to use the forum to further your safety knowledge and for the exchange of innovative ideas and as a resource for current developments in Mavic quadcopter’s.

I would suggest you look for a club that flys in your area. There is also the regional section here on the forum - Southwest USAs

Enjoy!
*MAVIC MANUAL: https://dl.djicdn.com/downloads/mavic/20170418/Mavic+Pro+User+Manual_V1.6.pdf

 

[kooknboo]

Being Navajo I was able to fly around Monument Valley

I'm heading out to AZ/UT area in a few weeks and Monument Valley is on my list. Are you saying I have to be a Navajo to fly there?

 

[Drewaz]

I'm in Phoenix also. I am bewildered about where I can legally fly and haven't even done a test flight. I found an online form on the Sky Harbor web site for notifying someone about an upcoming flight but it doesn't even ask where you will be flying. I'm guessing most people who are more than 5 miles from an airport just take off?

Anyway, if you want to chat PM me.

 

[XmanAZ]

I'm heading out to AZ/UT area in a few weeks and Monument Valley is on my list. Are you saying I have to be a Navajo to fly there?

Well it's free for me to get in and wonder about. Taking the dirt roads and flying my drone out there . Any one asked I just say I live here and give them names of people I know out there

 

[Lone Wolf 58]

Sorry you feel the need to conform to all of the so called rules etc. If I spent as much time checking areas out as you have done and got the run around that you have received I would give up on trying to be legal and go fly my bird. I'm here in New York State and can fly all over with the exception of the city which is one big NFZ. Consider becoming an outlaw and fly and enjoy. Or sell your drown now and try rc cars or boats. Life is full of choices. Sounds like maybe your a little over cautious. Enjoy life and step out on the wild side.

I know I will be crucified for my last statement but come on. Arizona, how many cactus could you possible endanger if you crashed. Sounds like many pilots are going above and beyond trying to be legal.

 

[MesaAZGuy]

Welcome from another Arizonan. I am in East Mesa and have been flying around my house. I am on a little over an acre and just circle the house training myself to use the camera as first person view. I do believe there are many places to fly out here so long as they are not at a national park or within the airport confines. Don't get frustrated. Its a fun hobby.

 

[Jacknet007]

I take off at parks or schools fly high enough not to bother people and at 400' max. I just stay away from the yellow or red zones on the GEO maps.
VF park is off limits in my area which seems kinda dumb although a local RC club does have a special permit to fly there. GEO maps does not have any warnings though for VF Park. though.

 

[SMTXOM]

I'm heading out to AZ/UT area in a few weeks and Monument Valley is on my list. Are you saying I have to be a Navajo to fly there?

Kooknboo, it's illegal to fly a drone within any National Parks/Wildlife Refuge area. Some states have a few State Parks where you can fly (I'm in Texas and only two state parks here have specified drone areas). Google your state parks rules on drones. I'm sure most are going to ban them.

I'm new here and don't want to sound like a Debbie downer but those of you who scoff at these bans/laws and continue to fly in these areas are the ones that will be responsible for us losing more drone flying areas.

 

[GuyOwen]

This might be too obvious a suggestion from a newbie, myself, but have you downloaded the Air Maps app from the Playstore, or elsewhere? It should give a quick answer on acceptable areas, as you travel around.

 

[kooknboo]

Kooknboo, it's illegal to fly a drone within any National Parks/Wildlife Refuge area. Some states have a few State Parks where you can fly (I'm in Texas and only two state parks here have specified drone areas). Google your state parks rules on drones. I'm sure most are going to ban them.

Where was I talking about flying in a NP/WR area or, for that matter, a State Park? Oh, that's right, I wasn't. I was asking about the rules for flying in and from an Indian reservation. Which, in this context, might as well be another country.

I'm new here and don't want to sound like a Debbie downer but those of you who scoff at these bans/laws and continue to fly in these areas are the ones that will be responsible for us losing more drone flying areas.

Wut? Whose scoffing at any laws? Having just re-read my post a dozen times or so, I'm pretty sure I was asking what the rules were for the tribal lands of which Monument Valley is a part of. Most, but apparently not all, would interpret that as me wanting to make sure I play by the rules.

it's illegal to fly a drone within any National Parks/Wildlife Refuge area.

And, to put my punctilious hat on, you're going to need to be careful with your use of the word "within". Depending how you define the word, your statement is either completely true or complete ********. There's enough confusion about the topic, that a little attention to detail would be helpful.

XOXO.

 

[SMTXOM]

I was incorrect about your destination. I thought the Monument was a park. My mistake. My statement regarding drones in Nat, Monuments, Wildlife Refuge, Most state parks is still true. A 30sec google search and you'll have your proof. "Within" means inside of. So flying a drone "inside of" any of those^ places is not allowed and they will issue tickets for it. Some have received tickets for $500 for first offenses.

 

[kooknboo]

I was incorrect about your destination. I thought the Monument was a park. My mistake. My statement regarding drones in Nat, Monuments, Wildlife Refuge, Most state parks is still true. A 30sec google search and you'll have your proof. "Within" means inside of. So flying a drone "inside of" any of those^ places is not allowed and they will issue tickets for it. Some have received tickets for $500 for first offenses.

Wrong. Or at least, exceptionally vague which, to the rank and file trying to understand the noise around this topic, is the same as wrong. Where's your 30s Google search results to back that up?

You (the UAS operator) personally cannot be standing within the boundaries of any of those^ places while operating a UAS. Nor, can your UAS takeoff/land on the ground within the boundaries.

However, your UAS can certainly fly over/within the boundaries whilst you remain "outside'.

Straight from the horses mouth. Plus read FAQ's #2 and #3 on the below page. Done. This isn't hard --

Unmanned Aircraft in the National Parks (U.S. National Park Service)

Policy Memorandum 14-05, released by the National Park Service (NPS) director in June 2014, directed each superintendent to use the authority under 36 CFR 1.5 to prohibit the launching, landing, or operation of unmanned aircraft, subject to the certain conditions and exceptions set forth in the memo. This is still in force with a very few exceptions.

This action applies to the launching, landing, and operation of unmanned aircraft on lands and waters administered by the NPS. Jurisdiction by the NPS ends at the park boundary.

 

[SMTXOM]

Wrong. Or at least, exceptionally vague which, to the rank and file trying to understand the noise around this topic, is the same as wrong. Where's your 30s Google search results to back that up?

You (the UAS operator) personally cannot be standing within the boundaries of any of those^ places while operating a UAS. Nor, can your UAS takeoff/land on the ground within the boundaries.

However, your UAS can certainly fly over/within the boundaries whilst you remain "outside'.

Straight from the horses mouth. Plus read FAQ's #2 and #3 on the below page. Done. This isn't hard --

Unmanned Aircraft in the National Parks (U.S. National Park Service)

So we agree that I was correct in both instances when I said the NPS doesn't allow drones. As for your "FAQ's" NPS has stated on their social media that they only give permits to fly in their boundaries in exceptional cases. Basically you probably have to be working for Discovery/National Geography.

 

[kooknboo]

So we agree that I was correct in both instances when I said the NPS doesn't allow drones. As for your "FAQ's" NPS has stated on their social media that they only give permits to fly in their boundaries in exceptional cases. Basically you probably have to be working for Discovery/National Geography.

You don't get it.

So we agree that I was correct

Actually the complete opposite. You're so vague in your statements, that you're effectively
wrong.

NPS doesn't allow drones

Wrong wrong wrong. 1000x wrong. The NPS does not allow UAS operators to be on their property while operating a drone. Nor do they allow a drone to land or takeoff from their property. I'm not sure how much clearer that statement can be made. You're generic statements are just adding to the confusion.

your "FAQ's"

Wrong. Not mine. The NPS is the author. But then again, you're specializing in misinformation, so why sweat the details?

NPS has stated on their social media

Could be. But links. Where's the links? Your misinformation backed up by vague promises of "link proof" holds no water if you can't back it up.

Let's move along. You're just adding another voice to the confusion.