No DLOG-M Color Mode for Still Images on Mavic 2 Pro

[baddog]

To All and Anyone with knowledge,

I have recently started using my Mavic 2 Pro for Cinematic footage and stills, it is long story why, another time maybe.

Anyway, I have been using my Mavic Pro, 1st edition, for the past 4 years capturing this footage type. I would always use h.264 compression & d-cinelike color profile, for both video footage and stills. Then I would, color grade the finished product.

(Source: FXhome D-log OR D-cinelike ?)
DJI gear is recording 8-bit 4:2:0 footage. This basically means you have only 256 levels per color channel which means. The D-Log AND D-Cinelike are going to try to cram your footage into the range of about 96-176 and you'll be required to re-expand the dynamic range to get back to 0-255. Problem is, with only 256 gray levels you run the risk of banding, since D-Log and D-Cinelike are both throwing away half to dynamic range.
D-Log and similar profiles are really intended for 10-bit or higher footage, not 8-bit.

So now I finally have 10-bit color with h.265 on the Mavic 2 Pro. Woo Hoo!!! Right? No, I do not have the option to select the DLOG-M profile for still images only for video. I am baffled as to why that is the case with the Mavic 2 Pro? We finally have the bit depth to take advantage of these color profiles and DJI cuts your hands off...okay a little dramatic, but you know what I mean.

Any insight on why DJI might have done this would be helpful.

 

[manowar_gub]

When you shooting dng images, it has 12/14 bit (dont remember) color depth

 

[brett8883]

When you shooting dng images, it has 12/14 bit (dont remember) color depth

Your right and it’s 12 on the Mavic 2 Pro

To All and Anyone with knowledge,

I have recently started using my Mavic 2 Pro for Cinematic footage and stills, it is long story why, another time maybe.

Anyway, I have been using my Mavic Pro, 1st edition, for the past 4 years capturing this footage type. I would always use h.264 compression & d-cinelike color profile, for both video footage and stills. Then I would, color grade the finished product.

(Source: FXhome D-log OR D-cinelike ?)
DJI gear is recording 8-bit 4:2:0 footage. This basically means you have only 256 levels per color channel which means. The D-Log AND D-Cinelike are going to try to cram your footage into the range of about 96-176 and you'll be required to re-expand the dynamic range to get back to 0-255. Problem is, with only 256 gray levels you run the risk of banding, since D-Log and D-Cinelike are both throwing away half to dynamic range.
D-Log and similar profiles are really intended for 10-bit or higher footage, not 8-bit.

So now I finally have 10-bit color with h.265 on the Mavic 2 Pro. Woo Hoo!!! Right? No, I do not have the option to select the DLOG-M profile for still images only for video. I am baffled as to why that is the case with the Mavic 2 Pro? We finally have the bit depth to take advantage of these color profiles and DJI cuts your hands off...okay a little dramatic, but you know what I mean.

Any insight on why DJI might have done this would be helpful.

Your post is true for video but not stills. There’s 68 billion colors available in 12 bit RAW. Far more than any computer screen could produce.

 

[baddog]

Your right and it’s 12 on the Mavic 2 Pro


Your post is true for video but not stills. There’s 68 billion colors available in 12 bit RAW. Far more than any computer screen could produce.

That is very true but that still does not answer my overall question... Why can I not use DLOG-M profile for still images?

The bit depth is there and I can use D-cinelike profile on still images when using my original Mavic Pro 1st edition. DLOG-M and D-cinelike are pretty much the same type of color profile to captures all the highs and lows and everything else in between.

 

[brett8883]

That is very true but that still does not answer my overall question... Why can I not use DLOG-M profile for still images?

The bit depth is there and I can use D-cinelike profile on still images when using my original Mavic Pro 1st edition. DLOG-M and D-cinelike are pretty much the same type of color profile to captures all the highs and lows and everything else in between.

Ok so first what we have to understand is gamma curve.

Camera sensors records light linearly. Each luminance value is equidistant apart. The problem is humans see light logarithmically, it takes twice as much light as the previous level to see the difference between luminance levels as the light get brighter. Therefore, a gamma curve must be applied to the sensor data to transform the linear values to logarithmic values.

In video that has been encoded to h.264 or h.265 this conversion is done in camera using the built in profiles, d-log is one such profile with a logarithmic gamma curve, get it “D-log” = “DJI logarithmic gamma curve” therefore the gamma curve that was applied to the original sensor data cannot be changed, it is baked in. This may not be the way you would have wanted the values to be processed though so “DJI Logarithmic gamma curve” is flatter than what would normally be wanted so you can apply secondary gamma curves to the pixels in post. Not as good as being able to control the gamma curve before it gets applied to the raw sensor data but does give a little bit more leeway in post.

With RAW DNG files, on the other hand, the original sensor data is embedded in the file and the gamma curve is applied in post by your editing software and the curve can be adjusted in your raw editing software before it is applied to the raw sensor data.

Basically D-Log is the solution to a problem DNG doesn’t have.

 

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

D-log is not for stills. I'm not sure why it seemed that way for the Mavic 1, but if they did actually give you that option, it was an error that they've now corrected. D-log is designed strictly for video.

For stills, use RAW. It's not exactly the same thing, but it's also not completely different (capture sensor data as neutral as possible for enhancement in post-processing).

Chris

 

[baddog]

D-log is not for stills. I'm not sure why it seemed that way for the Mavic 1, but if they did actually give you that option, it was an error that they've now corrected. D-log is designed strictly for video.

For stills, use RAW. It's not exactly the same thing, but it's also not completely different (capture sensor data as neutral as possible for enhancement in post-processing).

Chris

Hey Chris,

I do not doubt you, on your logic. However, I just purchased a slightly used Phantom 4 Pro V 2.0 and it has a DLOG-M and D-Cinelike options for images as well. I am use to color grading my video and images so I will have to do some testing on these option and do a side by side comparison on final renders.

Regards

David

 

[langcpht]

D-log is not for stills. I'm not sure why it seemed that way for the Mavic 1, but if they did actually give you that option, it was an error that they've now corrected. D-log is designed strictly for video.

For stills, use RAW. It's not exactly the same thing, but it's also not completely different (capture sensor data as neutral as possible for enhancement in post-processing).

Chris

I'm echoing Chris here (I'm also Chris, for what it's worth). Whether it's implied or not that that your stills are in a LOG format what you actually want is to shoot RAW (a .dng file). In fact, the Adobe DNG file name is tongue-in-cheek for "digital negative". Other camera manufacturers use other RAW extensions.

• Check out the Wikipedia entry for Log Profile -- it's entirely about video.
• Check out the Wikipedia entry for RAW Image Format -- it's entirely about photography

It's the same idea with both formats, raw sensor data that has to be processed/graded/edited to be usable. I don't mean to sound cocky, but if your drone is showing that you're shooting stills in a LOG format something is not right. Stills are shot in RAW or JPG, with RAW being the objectively better option if you want the maximum control over your colors, tones, exposure, and white balance.

 

[baddog]

I'm echoing Chris here (I'm also Chris, for what it's worth). Whether it's implied or not that that your stills are in a LOG format what you actually want is to shoot RAW (a .dng file). In fact, the Adobe DNG file name is tongue-in-cheek for "digital negative". Other camera manufacturers use other RAW extensions.

• Check out the Wikipedia entry for Log Profile -- it's entirely about video.
• Check out the Wikipedia entry for RAW Image Format -- it's entirely about photography

It's the same idea with both formats, raw sensor data that has to be processed/graded/edited to be usable. I don't mean to sound cocky, but if your drone is showing that you're shooting stills in a LOG format something is not right. Stills are shot in RAW or JPG, with RAW being the objectively better option if you want the maximum control over your colors, tones, exposure, and white balance.

I am not denying Chris or you about your explanation of RAW/DNG file formats. I always shoot Raw + JPG. The JPG files are just so I can simply grab a quick JPG to share/view, I could (It just hard drive space...lol).

I was just pointing out that Chris that DJI included the option to select Raw plus D-cinelike color profile in the mavic pro 1st edition, which I usually used because when you set D-cinelike for video it automatically carried over in the still images. I ended up with the same flat looking raw files, just like the video I captured in D-cinelike.

SO I was curious as to why I could not select a DLOG-M or a D-cinelike color profile for images when I got a Mavic 2 Pro, that was the whole point of my original post. So now, I just purchased a Phantom 4 Pro V2.0 and I have the option to choose either DLOG-M or D-cinelike color profile for images again. Same as with the MAvic Pro 1st edition, it has the muddy, flat greyish look on the original DNG/RAW files and then I color grade them. Not a huge deal but I am was just wondering if maybe my Mavic 2 Pro was missing a firmware update or something to that effect.

Example of P4P V2.0 images shot Raw with DLOG-M in h.265, before and after color grading, below...

 

[langcpht]

I have a suspicion here: definitely only a "hunch", but I have an idea for what we're talking about. I'm guessing that the D-Cinelike color profile that your other drones are offering to you only applies to the image preview and what you see on the screen, but is not what is actually being captured. Perhaps that was your whole point to begin with that I completely glossed over. ?‍ If so, now at least I understand better. That's the way pretty much all cameras shooting RAW work anyway - your image preview or "live view" from the sensor will be a pre-processed image from the captured RAW file/sensor read and will have a default and often tweakable profile that can be added to give you an idea of what your final image COULD look like. On all my cameras I've always left it at "standard" to get the flattest, most neutral preview.

So... Having said all of that, it looks like you just flat-out don't get the option to choose a LOG-like color profile to view your previews and live-view images in on the Mavic 2 Pro. I'm guessing it's probably on the Phantom 4 because it's a more "professional" (arguably) drone and perhaps the feature could be more widely used on it? Nice photos, by the way. I think that view would look cool with a sunset/sunrise behind it.