"No Drones" posted at Anna Ruby Falls National Forest Recreation Area

[Hawkwind]

I visited the Anna Ruby Falls National Forest Recreation Area and was surprised to see No Drones signs posted. This area has a Georgia State Park adjacent, and GA does not permit flights in their State Parks without permit. Is this enforceable in a National Forest? It is not a designated Wilderness area.

I wasn't planning to fly there anyway, but I'm curious as to whether or not this is enforceable or not.

Any insights on this? Please cite any official guidance.

 

[Thomas B]

Try an internet search. Check this one out....

Responsible Recreational Use | US Forest Service

Know Where to FlyIndividuals and organizations may fly UAS for hobby or recreational purposes in compliance with (Section 336 of Public Law 112-95).New changes to recreational drone flying in the United States.UAS must be flown below 400 feet and remain clear of surrounding obstacles.

www.fs.usda.gov

 

[Hawkwind]

@Thomas B Yes, I've seen this page and didn't find anything relevant here.

I guess that I should have specified that I tried an internet search.

 

[Thomas B]

@Thomas B Yes, I've seen this page and didn't find anything relevant here.

I guess that I should have specified that I tried an internet search.

Unless it is a designated wilderness area you can fly, but not TO or land. Rangers will discourage this. Since most folks don’t go to the woods to see/hear drones. If the area is a designated wilderness area of a National Forest the minimum altitude is 2000 feet of memory serves.
You could also search around the both the FAA and NFS website as appropriate.

 

[Hawkwind]

To clarify, one may fly (overfly, take off, land) in a National Forest, generally speaking (refer to link you shared). If it is a designated wilderness area, one cannot take off, land, or operate from said area. Anna Ruby Falls is not a wilderness area.

From what I understand and have found, there is no legal basis for restricting flights in National Forests, unless it is a Wilderness area.

Maybe the signs are to scare away those who don't know the rules. Or maybe there is some enforceability.

 

[JimWest]

What about calling or visiting the regional Forest Service office to ask what the legal basis is for the restriction?

 

[theDRONEranger]

Take off and landing of drones is virtually enforceable almost anywhere. Private land owners have that option. The government entities have that choice as well. They generally often exercise that option in efforts to preserve the wildlife habitats contained within, and to preserve the state of habitats. They may only control take off and landing on their property! They do NOT control the airspace! That is the sole responsibility of the FAA. However, should one take off (from adjoining property) and be flying at an altitude over protected areas, one may be subjected to fines for disturbing the wildlife.

If you stop and ponder for a moment, the reason why so many entities have banned the use of drones from their respective properties may generally be traced back to less than legal reasons by careless pilots. It only takes ONE to ruin the activity for all. Don’t be that one. Respect the rights of the land owner.

 

[BigAl07]

The Owner or Managing Body of any property can indeed LEGALLY restrict Land Use. This means flying from and/or taking off~landing while physically on that property. Just because the NFS does not globally restrict all of their land (which honestly surprises me) doesn't mean they can't do so on a local/regional basis if so inclined.

 

[Hawkwind]

Take off and landing of drones is virtually enforceable almost anywhere. Private land owners have that option. The government entities have that choice as well. They generally often exercise that option in efforts to preserve the wildlife habitats contained within, and to preserve the state of habitats. They may only control take off and landing on their property! They do NOT control the airspace! That is the sole responsibility of the FAA. However, should one take off (from adjoining property) and be flying at an altitude over protected areas, one may be subjected to fines for disturbing the wildlife.

If you stop and ponder for a moment, the reason why so many entities have banned the use of drones from their respective properties may generally be traced back to less than legal reasons by careless pilots. It only takes ONE to ruin the activity for all. Don’t be that one. Respect the rights of the land owner.

Yes and agree.

 

[Hawkwind]

What about calling or visiting the regional Forest Service office to ask what the legal basis is for the restriction?

Yes, but first I wanted to check the collective knowledge of the forum.

 

[theDRONEranger]

Yes, but first I wanted to check the collective knowledge of the forum.

Some responses here have been known to be incorrect. Including my own!

It really would be best to first contact the owner agency and directly request links to specific inquiries. Then if no reasonable response, bump it up the food chain.
i.e.,
Yellowstone National Park
National Park Service
Department of Interior

Know before you go!

Where have I heard that before?

 

[Hawkwind]

Some responses here have been known to be incorrect. Including my own!

It really would be best to first contact the owner agency and directly request links to specific inquiries. Then if no reasonable response, bump it up the food chain.
i.e.,
Yellowstone National Park
National Park Service
Department of Interior

Know before you go!

Where have I heard that before?

Interestingly, there is nothing posted on their official site, it is only when you arrive at the park that you are presented with No Drones notification. Like I said, I was not planning to fly there anyway.

 

[macfawlty]

The Owner or Managing Body of any property can indeed LEGALLY restrict Land Use. This means flying from and/or taking off~landing while physically on that property. Just because the NFS does not globally restrict all of their land (which honestly surprises me) doesn't mean they can't do so on a local/regional basis if so inclined.

Could you clarify this point a bit? While NFS has a stated policy regarding drones that theoretically would apply to all NFS property, you believe a specific NFS area can append the federal policy to not allow drones in their local forest area? If that's the case, then theoretically a group of NFS areas could ban drones for an entire state? Under whose authority would that be declared?

 

[Thomas B]

Could you clarify this point a bit? While NFS has a stated policy regarding drones that theoretically would apply to all NFS property, you believe a specific NFS area can append the federal policy to not allow drones in their local forest area? If that's the case, then theoretically a group of NFS areas could ban drones for an entire state? Under whose authority would that be declared?

Maybe you could research the answers and post same....

 

[Cw4bray]

• And the sign said "Long-haired freaky people need not apply"
  So I tucked my hair up under my hat and I went in to ask him why
  He said "You look like a fine upstanding young man, I think you'll do"
  So I took off my hat, I said "Imagine that. Huh! Me workin' for you!"
  Whoa-oh-oh
  
  Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
  Blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind
  Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?
  
  And the sign said anybody caught trespassin' would be shot on sight
  So I jumped on the fence and-a yelled at the house, "Hey! What gives you
  the
  right?"
  "To put up a fence to keep me out or to keep mother nature in"
  "If God was here he'd tell you to your face, Man, you're some kinda sinner"
  
  Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
  Blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind
  Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?
  
  Now, hey you, mister, can't you read?
  You've got to have a shirt and tie to get a seat
  You can't even watch, no you can't eat
  You ain't supposed to be here
  The sign said you got to have a membership card to get inside
  Ugh!
  
  ------ lead guitar ------
  
  And the sign said, "Everybody welcome. Come in, kneel down and pray"
  But when they passed around the plate at the end of it all, I didn't have a
  penny to pay
  So I got me a pen and a paper and I made up my own little sign
  I said, "Thank you, Lord, for thinkin' 'bout me. I'm alive and doin' fine."
  Wooo!
  
  Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
  Blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind
  Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?
  
  Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
  Sign
  Sign, sign

Five man electrical band
good-byes and butterflies
1971

​

 

[BigAl07]

Could you clarify this point a bit? While NFS has a stated policy regarding drones that theoretically would apply to all NFS property, you believe a specific NFS area can append the federal policy to not allow drones in their local forest area? If that's the case, then theoretically a group of NFS areas could ban drones for an entire state? Under whose authority would that be declared?

Just like many other aspects of our society there are variations etc and it's not uncommon to have a locally set of rules stricter than the national set. What in the world makes anyone think that a local facility/district/region could not impose TIGHTER restrictions than a policy states? Maybe the area in question has had problems (or unjustified fears who knows) and they decided to tighter the rules? That's generally perfectly legal and acceptable.

Keep in mind the link shared earlier in this thread was TIPS not RULES/LAW....
Tips for Responsible Recreational Use of Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) on National Forest Systems Lands

 

[JimWest]

• And the sign said "Long-haired freaky people need not apply"
  So I tucked my hair up under my hat and I went in to ask him why
  He said "You look like a fine upstanding young man, I think you'll do"
  So I took off my hat, I said "Imagine that. Huh! Me workin' for you!"
  Whoa-oh-oh
  
  Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
  Blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind
  Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?
  
  And the sign said anybody caught trespassin' would be shot on sight
  So I jumped on the fence and-a yelled at the house, "Hey! What gives you
  the
  right?"
  "To put up a fence to keep me out or to keep mother nature in"
  "If God was here he'd tell you to your face, Man, you're some kinda sinner"
  
  Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
  Blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind
  Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?
  
  Now, hey you, mister, can't you read?
  You've got to have a shirt and tie to get a seat
  You can't even watch, no you can't eat
  You ain't supposed to be here
  The sign said you got to have a membership card to get inside
  Ugh!
  
  ------ lead guitar ------
  
  And the sign said, "Everybody welcome. Come in, kneel down and pray"
  But when they passed around the plate at the end of it all, I didn't have a
  penny to pay
  So I got me a pen and a paper and I made up my own little sign
  I said, "Thank you, Lord, for thinkin' 'bout me. I'm alive and doin' fine."
  Wooo!
  
  Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
  Blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind
  Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?
  
  Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
  Sign
  Sign, sign

​

I like Woodie Guthrie's take on this issue (from "This Land is Your Land"):

As I went walking I saw a sign there,
And on the sign it said "No Trespassing."
But on the other side it didn't say nothing.
That side was made for you and me.

 

[SpitFire]

Better safe then sorry. Good to check out info your self. Go to the source, which would be the park in question. Many times the person giving you information may not know all the facts. I always encourage people to check it out themselves, not take my word for it.

 

[macfawlty]

Maybe you could research the answers and post same....

Here's the website for that area: Chattahoochee-Oconee National Forests - Home

After 90 min. searching through their FSM manual, organizational structure and authority of Regional and Station Directors with regards to issuing directives or restrictions on areas and types of use, there's no stated authority for appending USDA FS regulations related to UAS. It's not covered in the FSM, which is more related to natural resource management by area.

Authority on issuing regional or station prohibitions by area and type of use may fall under this section subpart of the Code of Federal Regulations for USDA FS, but it only refers to roadways and access. 36 CFR § 261.50 - Orders.

I could find no authority under which a regional or station director could issue regulations in contrary to the official USFS Federal regulations under CFR. Doesn't mean they don't have authority, but I can't find it. Perhaps they can restrict certain activities under a general category of public safety. If there's a sign posted, it's hard to argue the finer points of authority with a law enforcement officer. If it's a popular area with people around (like waterfalls), you shouldn't be flying there anyway.

 

[Thomas B]

In Arizona we have a law, specifically for drones, passed by the state stating that the state law prevails except on reservations and federal lands.. Smaller entities cannot legally pass any laws to regulate drone use in AZ