Not a threat to airplanes

[wco81]

A United Airlines flight was struck by an object when it was cruising at well over 30k feet.

There was speculation that it was space debris but the operator of weather balloons said they believe it was one of their weather balloons. There was damage to the windshield frame of the cockpit but the company said their weather balloons don’t pose a threat to airplanes.

“The quick answer is our constellation of Global Sounding Balloons (GSBs), which we call WindBorne Atlas, doesn’t pose a threat to airplanes or other objects in the sky. It’s not only highly improbable that a WindBorne balloon could even collide with an aircraft in the first place; but our balloons are so lightweight that they would not cause significant damage.

WindBorne also said that its balloons are compliant with all applicable airspace regulations.

It wasn’t space debris that struck a United Airlines plane—it was a weather balloon

WindBorne says its balloons are compliant with all applicable airspace regulations.

arstechnica.com

The balloons weigh 1.2 kilograms and licensed to operate at high altitudes, he same altitudes planes fly at.

So why are drones which weigh less and probably has smaller volumes risk to planes but these heavier weather balloons operating at thousands of ft of altitude not a threat? If a drone could potentially take out an engine, why wouldn’t these licensed balloons pose a similar risk?

 

[AeroJ]

Yes, I too find myself rather in the Scott Manley camp when it comes to the cause of this particular incident in believing it was likely to be part of a weather balloon that collided with the windshield.

Of course you raise a perfectly valid point, and the same points also apply to paragliders and hang-gliders, both of which have very few rules or restrictions and pose a far greater risk to manned aviation than our tiny drones ever could. And of course you feel the same exasperation and depression as the rest of us that drone rules are so entirely unrelated to safety risk, and so much more about punitive control for hobbyists with the aim of eventually removing us from the airspace altogether, leaving it free for profit-making enterprise of largely unaccountable corporations, who, as we already see (recent amazon drones crash for example) don't get punished / sanctioned to anything like the same degree as we would when their machines actually do crash and injure people / damage property !

 

[Cafguy]

I see your point but have you seen the aftermath of a drone hitting a plane, ...its not pretty. having said that I think the balloon would be a greater risk to aircraft than the drone. To be disastrous a drone would have to strike a certain spot on the plane...A balloon could do all sorts of bad things striking the aircraft anywhere and could do stuff like blocking the pitot tube of a plane.

 

[wco81]

If a pilot saw a weather balloon or a glider, can he or she maneuver those giant airliners in time to avoid a collision?

By the time they are able to spot one in their path, they may be very close to it.

Maybe that would be the only objection to drones, that they're too small for pilots to easily spot them whereas weather balloons and gliders are larger.

 

[WanderLost]

If a pilot saw a weather balloon or a glider, can he or she maneuver those giant airliners in time to avoid a collision?

By the time they are able to spot one in their path, they may be very close to it.

Maybe that would be the only objection to drones, that they're too small for pilots to easily spot them whereas weather balloons and gliders are larger.

That was the take from the pilots who commented on that story. That at 600 mph, by the time they seem them, it's already too late. I wonder if they should be equipped with ADS-B like planes so they can be identified and located in the air. It's a simple and pretty small bit of equipment these days.

 

[AMann]

The weather balloon had a FAA NOTAM in place, and something probably got missed from air traffic control procedures - it wasn’t the balloon’s fault, it was doing everything correctly! Seriously- Windborne (the balloon’s operator) puts hundreds of these aloft for weather monitoring, and does report their positions for NOTAMS as they can track and even direct the flights of their balloons remotely, so they knew exactly where it was when the jet collided with it.

They actually have pretty cool balloons- they are sounding balloons - in that they can be remotely directed or programmed to vent gas or drop ballast to control their altitude, and it’s done purposely so they take continuous temperature, wind speed, air pressure and humidity measurements from just above the ground up to over 40,000 feet each time they drop and rise thhrough the atmosphere. They can even steer the course of the balloons by having it stay at an elevation with favorable winds going in the same direction they want the balloon to go. By doing this, they’ve steered their balloons to fly through hurricanes and were able to take continuous measurements from the ocean surface up to the top of the hurricane.

The jet hit one at 36,000 feet, so the company is programming their fleet to not linger between 30,000 to 40,000 feet, elevations where most jets fly.

UA 1093

| WindBorne | UA 1093

windbornesystems.com

 

[hank970]

A balloon has so little mass that I doubt it would cause any impact damage. There'd be a greater risk of a collapsed balloon obstructing an air intake or, as someone has already said, the pitot tube. But balloons carry instrument packages. They're pretty light, as well, at least the few I've recovered on the ground. They're basically a small rigid foam or cardboard box with an aneroid barometer and a few other goodies inside. Perhaps the plane's windshield hit the instrument package. At 600 mph, that would be a big whack.

 

[AMann]

A balloon has so little mass that I doubt it would cause any impact damage. There'd be a greater risk of a collapsed balloon obstructing an air intake or, as someone has already said, the pitot tube. But balloons carry instrument packages. They're pretty light, as well, at least the few I've recovered on the ground. They're basically a small rigid foam or cardboard box with an aneroid barometer and a few other goodies inside. Perhaps the plane's windshield hit the instrument package. At 600 mph, that would be a big whack.

The Windborne balloons are 2.5 lbs each and include ballast in their payload in order to allow it to adjust its altitude. That’s a sizable projectile at 600mph! But the company did everything right while flying it, they even filed for a traveling NOTAM with the FAA for it. I think someone missed the notification-either ATC or the pilots.

 

[hank970]

The Windborne balloons are 2.5 lbs each and include ballast in their payload in order to allow it to adjust its altitude. That’s a sizable projectile at 600mph! But the company did everything right while flying it, they even filed for a traveling NOTAM with the FAA for it. I think someone missed the notification-either ATC or the pilots.

Yeah, but that 2.5 pounds is spread over a large surface area. At any point of contact, assuming a plane hit only balloon and not payload, it would be hitting a small patch of thin plastic film.

 

[AMann]

Yeah, but that 2.5 pounds is spread over a large surface area. At any point of contact, assuming a plane hit only balloon and not payload, it would be hitting a small patch of thin plastic film.

It hit the instrument payload, which contains a bag of sand ballast (example image: ballast bag of a similar sounding balloon as the one hit by the plane, and the plane’s windshield). The instruments are very light, but it’s the ballast that contains most of the weight of their sounding balloons.

 

[GadgetGuy]

It hit the instrument payload, which contains a bag of sand ballast (example image: ballast bag of a similar sounding balloon as the one hit by the plane, and the plane’s windshield). The instruments are very light, but it’s the ballast that contains most of the weight of their sounding balloons.
View attachment 186128

It left a footprint!

 

[Bad Santa]

Density of mass.

A 5g piece of lead traveling at 400mph could remove brains.
A 5g inflated balloon traveling at 400mph might jolt someone's head a half inch. Depending on how much it was inflated.

The weather balloon couldn't have cracked the windshield. The instruments or ballast attached, however, could.