B52-D
Well-Known Member
You are an intelligent reader as you determined my post contained additional information to what had previously been posted. Some people thought it was repetitive.
Just Say’n ?
Just Say’n ?
Oh Boy... some one is in trouble...
- Thread starter dixter
- Start date
... Helicopter blades over 700 mph... Everyone forgets about the rock hard battery that is nothing like a bird. For all fixed wing aircraft, the speed of the drone is irrelevant. The battery will hit the aircraft at more than 100 mph, way more for jets. If the drone hits the tail or main rotor, the helicopter's speed is also irrelevant.
Overzealous, certainly, but as you note also somewhat reckless. Your neighbour complains about you flying a drone, so they dispatch a *helicopter* to the scene? And here I was thinking one of the primary rules of flying was to try and avoid creating situations where aircraft might come into conflict... Sure, send a *car* if they've not got anything better to do, which I'm assuming they must have done as well since it's unlikely that they would have landed in the street to check your ID, etc., but putting a helicopter on the scene just increases the chance of something going wrong, especially at night.
Frankly, if that had been me, I'd have raised the matter with the FAA (or CAA here in the UK) the following morning as a potential incident and let them educate your local PD if they deemed it necessary. If nothing else, it would be really interesting to see how they might have apportioned blame should an incident have occurred in a situation like that.
Well the previous incident of Heli vs. Drone was a Phantom 4, and it did hit the main rotor. This is a damage shot of the blade.
Attachments
cgmaxed
Well-Known Member
Scratches? No structural defects? Well, at least on the outside. I wouldn't keep my heli up, if I had a hit like that. But I'm sure they were safe.
cgmaxed
Well-Known Member
They cut like knives. They will cut soft metal to shreds without breaking. Lipo batteries aren't made of diamond rocks.
Jeff2020
Active Member
Ummmm.... a heartfelt "Geez I'm sorry...." ought to do it I think....
I think that 22 y/o ought to do some jail time.... what he knowingly did was criminally negligent - no two ways about it.
Please define and expound his crime? He saw a bunch of police activity (Ground) he went up for a birds eye view, certainly not a crime...I have done it once myself. He was on scene (Presumably) before the full size helicopter. It was only then the accident happened. His only problem was again presumably that he was flying beyond line of sight (Not illegal) and didn't yield to aircraft...again did he know one was in area to take appropriate action in time (How far from scene was his take off point?, Where was he in relationship to the oncoming low flying Police helicopter? Opposite directions? Did the incident happen right when the Police helicopter arrived in the immediate area? OR ...any number of other questions still to be answered which could change this story dramatically).
It wasn't till questioned that he admitted he lost contact with his drone the night/evening of incident and then charges were filed when proven it was indeed his aircraft that impacted the full size helicopter. That's the way I read the reports at this point and that being the just media reports and those are always factual
, you have anything that proves otherwise? Note that I am not sticking up for the guy...he made some severe misjudgments and he is going to be held accountable, but being a judge and jury for a man who has been only charged at this point is not following the principals on which this country was founded. Innocent till proven guilty out the window these days?I am not really sure at this point the proper authorities are charging him with the crime, if anything this should be a local and/or FAA matter. But I am no lawyer nor profess to be, but what does the FBI have to do with this case or were they given authority when local officials coudn't pick up the pieces and figure out how to look at a SDCard?
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B52-D
Well-Known Member
18 USC Section 39B(a)(2) makes it a crime for any person who operates an unmanned aircraft and “Recklessly interferes with, or disrupts the operation of, an aircraft carrying 1 or more occupants operating in the special aircraft jurisdiction of the United States, in a manner that poses an imminent safety hazard to such occupants[.]” A violation shall be punished by a fine and/or imprisonment for not more than 1 year; however, if the person causes serious bodily injury or death during the commission of an offense, they can be fined and/or imprisoned for a term of up to 10 years.Please define and expound his crime? He saw a bunch of police activity (Ground) he went up for a birds eye view, certainly not a crime...I have done it once myself. He was on scene (Presumably) before the full size helicopter. It was only then the accident happened. His only problem was again presumably that he was flying beyond line of sight (Not illegal) and didn't yield to aircraft...again did he know one was in area to take appropriate action in time (How far from scene was his take off point?, Where was he in relationship to the oncoming low flying Police helicopter? Opposite directions? Did the incident happen right when the Police helicopter arrived in the immediate area? OR ...any number of other questions still to be answered which could change this story dramatically).
It wasn't till questioned that he admitted he lost contact with his drone the night/evening of incident and then charges were filed when proven it was indeed his aircraft that impacted the full size helicopter. That's the way I read the reports at this point and that being the just media reports and those are always factual
I am not really sure at this point the proper authorities are charging him with the crime, if anything this should be a local and/or FAA matter. But I am no lawyer nor profess to be, but what does the FBI have to do with this case or were they given authority when local officials coudn't pick up the pieces and figure out how to look at a SDCard?
Just say’n
Regarding lights that should have been on the drone and whether or not the helicopter pilot should have then been able to view or avoid the drone:
I’m not a manned aircraft pilot so I don’t know what the view of an urban area looks like at night behind the controls. I have tried to navigate a sailboat into San Diego Bay along Pt Loma on a black night and I was amazed at how shoreline flashing lights, illuminated signs, traffic lights, street lights, vehicle headlights, etc. of all imaginable colors created a luminous kaleidoscope within which the navigational lights on channel markers and other craft were hidden - and that was at 5 knots. I honestly can’t imagine flying a helicopter at night over city streets with all of the associated lights and trying to monitor other manned aircraft in my vicinity, let alone small consumer drones with whatever lights those could carry.
From a completely practical point of view I’ll always fly my drone as though a manned aircraft has no ability to see it or avoid it!
Howard
I’m not a manned aircraft pilot so I don’t know what the view of an urban area looks like at night behind the controls. I have tried to navigate a sailboat into San Diego Bay along Pt Loma on a black night and I was amazed at how shoreline flashing lights, illuminated signs, traffic lights, street lights, vehicle headlights, etc. of all imaginable colors created a luminous kaleidoscope within which the navigational lights on channel markers and other craft were hidden - and that was at 5 knots. I honestly can’t imagine flying a helicopter at night over city streets with all of the associated lights and trying to monitor other manned aircraft in my vicinity, let alone small consumer drones with whatever lights those could carry.
From a completely practical point of view I’ll always fly my drone as though a manned aircraft has no ability to see it or avoid it!
Howard
cgmaxed
Well-Known Member
Putting people in jail is always a knee jerk reaction by most of the American public. Jail doesn't solve anything. He is not a threat or repeat offender. This is probable a first time offense and an accident. He knows he did something wrong. Taking him away from his job, family. friends, labeling him as a felon and exposing him to the criminal minds in a jail may cause negative effects on correcting his behavior. Our American system of justice was based on "CORRECTIONS" IE Dept. of Corrections. I'm sure he will be put on probation, made to pay fines and damages and I certainly expect he will lose his right or privilege's to fly drones for a while or forever. We call our Jails , Correctional institutions, when they are more like pain, suffering and life destroying institutions. Most people walk out with PTSD. Jail changes a person. And it's usually not for the good. They come out with anger and animosity towards society. We need productive citizens, not tax payer funded prisoners.
dronerdave
Well-Known Member
They will be asking if he violated any of the current rules.
Who knows what will happen in court.
Who knows what will happen in court.
Jeff2020
Active Member
Oh my goodness.... I can’t stop laughing at the nerve I’ve apparently touched.
Due process according to law and consequences (accountability) for our actions. I was just sharing my opinion - but I should have predicated it with the caveat of “if he is found guilty by a court of law”. Let’s just choose to respect each other’s point of view. They are all interesting and sometimes entertaining. [emoji3]
Due process according to law and consequences (accountability) for our actions. I was just sharing my opinion - but I should have predicated it with the caveat of “if he is found guilty by a court of law”. Let’s just choose to respect each other’s point of view. They are all interesting and sometimes entertaining. [emoji3]
I still say there's little reason for a chopper to fly below 500ft and at cruising speed. Once it reaches destination it can easily descend vertically to its target altitude if necessary and maneuver at low speed. Even when at scene, 500ft is likely low enough for surveillance. I know manned aircraft has right of way, but it's not easy in third person view (VLOS) to accurately assess and properly react to fast moving traffic.
Though I totally agree one should avoid flying near an emergency scene, especially at night.
I could be wrong but since the 2018 act, VLOS is law and BVLOS illegal if not expressly approved, even under recreational flight.
Though I totally agree one should avoid flying near an emergency scene, especially at night.
I could be wrong but since the 2018 act, VLOS is law and BVLOS illegal if not expressly approved, even under recreational flight.
cgmaxed
Well-Known Member
cgmaxed
Well-Known Member
Does anyone know why police helicopters almost never hover in one place. They always fly in circles when targeting something on the ground. They never just hover. Does it waist too much fuel or something, when they hover?
Luckygecko
Member
It’s mainly for safety to keep out of dead man’s curve.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter_height–velocity_diagram
Edited: as for fuel, mot sure of the difference. They are gas turbine powered. Throttle position is almost constant. Well, edit to add, I’m reading that forward Motion is more efficient due to things like body lift being a gain over induced drag,etc.
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Thanks, Luckygecko - that is a fascinating link! I’d recommend anyone wondering about why helicopters fily like they do take a look at the “Height/Velocity” graph. Apparently any time a Bell 204B is hovering below 800 feet above ground the pilot, crew and folks on the ground are in danger.
While on a mountain rescue team many years ago, I took part in informal training for working with Coast Guard and Sheriff department helicopters and learned of what we called “auto gyrate” capability. Basically if a helicopter has forward momentum when engines lose power, rotors will spin due to airflow as the craft descends and a skilled pilot can use that spin to flare the helicopter up a tiny amount just before hitting the ground and hopefully providing a survivable landing. One of my rescue team colleagues was aboard a chopper that did just that. While he walked away alive to change his shorts, he never boarded a helicopter again.
Howard
Luckygecko
Member
Here is a different heli (also a Bell 212) with outside view. You can see it's a good ride. I've been on a few 'running landings' after simulation autorotations and it's an interesting ride when you are in the back.
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Helicopters use more fuel/power in the hover than they do in forward flight - it has to do with something called translational lift. It has little to do with "body lift" but much to do with the rotors becoming more efficient as forward speed increases.
I was a helicopter flying instructor for many years. I used to regularly teach power-off autorotations to a smooth running landing and they're not that difficult once you understand the principles. You'd be surprised at just how far you can go in autorotation (with no engine assistance) in a helicopter - not quite as far as a fixed wing glide but not too far short in the right conditions.
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