Police drones for traffic control

[mavic3usa]

Not cool.

Keep ignoring me.....we'll find out.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[microlinux]

What are you concerned about here, precedent?

They’re enforcing the law with all the tools they have, so that seems logical at least.

 

[msinger]

It seems like a more cost-effective solution than using manned aircraft, which is also perfectly legal.

 

[mavic3usa]

Couple of viewpoints on the topic to get you started, not necessarily my own viewpoints but read these two articles and provide comments please. I remember when drones were only to be deployed for 911 calls and that's it. The goal posts have moved and now we are up to traffic enforcement and there is no end in sight; for me, the unlimited use of police drones is unacceptable. While I cannot argue against specific techniques and tactics, I don't support a police state comprised of drones and cameras and I don't support any activities that violate due process or the Constitution. I say this is a bad idea because I don't see any guardrails and in particular, I don't see the right people (other than the usual folks) paying attention to this....and, they probably won't until it's too late. Look at what happened the last time half of America was caught sleeping at the wheel. Everybody is paying for that. It's not too late to do something about this now!

Drones in Traffic Enforcement – Opportunities and Challenges - Pilot Institute

The merits of using drones for traffic enforcement are undeniable. On the flip side, concerns over privacy and safety are also equally valid.

pilotinstitute.com

Domestic Drones | American Civil Liberties Union

The ACLU works in courts, legislatures, and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties that the Constitution and the laws of the United States guarantee everyone in this country.

www.aclu.org

 

[msinger]

Look at what happened the last time half of America was caught sleeping at the wheel. Everybody is paying for that.

Amen to that. The past couple of years have been a real travesty for the American people.

 

[timskins]

Great idea. No different that an officer sitting at an intersection observing traffic. Police departments will never recover from staffing levels decimated by certain groups movements over the last few years. While it doesnt replace an officer, it is a much cheaper addition to the force.

 

[Cafguy]

Bakersfield has a Police Drone Dept., and they started regular daily duties about a year ago. Until then they were only used for Fireworks violations and some Crime scenes.
They still have a couple of Helicopters but the Noise complaints are piling up and they just may lose their jobs to the Drones very soon.

 

[Nanny Ogg]

Not cool.

Keep ignoring me.....we'll find out.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

If people were stopping for the stop sign (obeying the law), the police would not be issuing ten tickets an hour for violations.

 

[paulhackerllc]

It seems like a more cost-effective solution than using manned aircraft, which is also perfectly legal.

Considering they’re using public money to enforce the law, you would think efficiency would be important and applauded.

 

[paulhackerllc]

Couple of viewpoints on the topic to get you started, not necessarily my own viewpoints but read these two articles and provide comments please. I remember when drones were only to be deployed for 911 calls and that's it. The goal posts have moved and now we are up to traffic enforcement and there is no end in sight; for me, the unlimited use of police drones is unacceptable. While I cannot argue against specific techniques and tactics, I don't support a police state comprised of drones and cameras and I don't support any activities that violate due process or the Constitution. I say this is a bad idea because I don't see any guardrails and in particular, I don't see the right people (other than the usual folks) paying attention to this....and, they probably won't until it's too late. Look at what happened the last time half of America was caught sleeping at the wheel. Everybody is paying for that. It's not too late to do something about this now!

Drones in Traffic Enforcement – Opportunities and Challenges - Pilot Institute

The merits of using drones for traffic enforcement are undeniable. On the flip side, concerns over privacy and safety are also equally valid.

pilotinstitute.com

Domestic Drones | American Civil Liberties Union

The ACLU works in courts, legislatures, and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties that the Constitution and the laws of the United States guarantee everyone in this country.

www.aclu.org

This is my comment prior to reading the articles. Maybe my viewpoint will change once I read it.

“Basically, what it sounds like you’re saying is who’s policing the police. Any technology can be abused and will always be abused, because some people are inherently “bad”. IMHO, I think certain sectors of society should be held to a higher standard, ie police, doctors, teachers, etc and when they break the law punishment should be harsh. Don’t get me wrong, I love the previously mentioned professions, but when you choose a career that can influence so many people in society in a negative or positive way, you better do it right.”

 

[mavic3usa]

There are always so many problems, I just don't know where to begin. Usually these programs involve the department or the city hiring a company to run the program from issuing the tickets and processing them and collecting the fees. At this point, it becomes a money making scheme. A drone tickets becomes more expensive than a municipal tickets because there's a $100 fee attached. Later we find out the company is making all the money and the government is getting very little of it. And they are selling your details. The people didn't sign up for this and we have the same situation we have with red light cameras and fixed speed cameras: no way to contest the ticket, no due process because there isn't an officer to confront, lots of mistakes, and then there are the legal questions.

Where are these drones deployed? At stop signs and red lights where issues arise, where there are complaints, or in disadvantaged neighborhoods to tax the poor people even more even though it's probably true wealthier people are just as likely to violate the traffic laws. But how will anyone know this when 100 police cars and 200 drones are deployed daily to the east side to write tickets at a frenzy pace but no one patrols the west side because the people there won't have that kind of nonsense in their neighborhood. The data ultimately will show the bulk of traffic violations happen on the east side. Especially when there is a stop sign at every intersection going in all directions and no traffic lights anywhere as opposed to rural parkways and avenues with timed lights and little traffic so no one is in a hurry.

What's next, using the license plate readers on drones to record and report the activities of cars that are flagged? Do the drones follow? Will drones be able to detain traffic violators one day? It's coming and again, it's fine when it works but what happens when it gets out of control and it starts to get abused? Do you or your community have the power to do something about it? We've all seen what happens when government gets too much power, goes out of control and overboard....and you can't do anything to stop it because you are helpless or too afraid to speak up or just don't know how to do anything about it.

All I am asking for is guardrails to be set up to keep this under control. Clearly define the roles and responsibilities what can be done and what *cannot* be done. And, penalties for breaking the rules on all sides. This ensures the community gets a say in how these programs are implemented and there is transparency and accountability when there are questions or concerns. Records remain public, fines and fees are approved, training and certifications programs for the people and the equipment are properly maintained and fully disclosed. And more importantly, the rights of the people under the Constitution are respected and intact at all times.

 

[paulhackerllc]

Couple of viewpoints on the topic to get you started, not necessarily my own viewpoints but read these two articles and provide comments please. I remember when drones were only to be deployed for 911 calls and that's it. The goal posts have moved and now we are up to traffic enforcement and there is no end in sight; for me, the unlimited use of police drones is unacceptable. While I cannot argue against specific techniques and tactics, I don't support a police state comprised of drones and cameras and I don't support any activities that violate due process or the Constitution. I say this is a bad idea because I don't see any guardrails and in particular, I don't see the right people (other than the usual folks) paying attention to this....and, they probably won't until it's too late. Look at what happened the last time half of America was caught sleeping at the wheel. Everybody is paying for that. It's not too late to do something about this now!

Drones in Traffic Enforcement – Opportunities and Challenges - Pilot Institute

The merits of using drones for traffic enforcement are undeniable. On the flip side, concerns over privacy and safety are also equally valid.

pilotinstitute.com

Domestic Drones | American Civil Liberties Union

The ACLU works in courts, legislatures, and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties that the Constitution and the laws of the United States guarantee everyone in this country.

www.aclu.org

My views after reading both articles;

A drone is just a tool, one which makes the job of a police officer easier. As far as being a distraction to drivers, I’m sure once the public gets used to them most of the novelty and distraction will go away.

My comments on the ACLU article below:

“Uniform rules should be enacted to ensure that we can enjoy the benefits of this new technology without bringing us closer to a “surveillance society” in which our every move is monitored, tracked, recorded, and scrutinized by the government.

The ACLU recommends the following safeguards:

• Usage Limits: A drone should be deployed by law enforcement only with a warrant, in an emergency, or when there are specific and articulable grounds to believe that the drone will collect evidence relating to a specific criminal act.
• Data Retention: Images should be retained only when there is reasonable suspicion that they contain evidence of a crime or are relevant to an ongoing investigation or trial.
• Policy: Usage policy on drones should be decided by the public’s representatives, not by police departments, and the policies should be clear, written, and open to the public.
• Abuse Prevention and Accountability: Use of domestic drones should be subject to open audits and proper oversight to prevent misuse.
• Weapons: Domestic drones should not be equipped with lethal or non-lethal weapons.

“Closer to a “surveillance society”…. hate to say it, but we’re already there.

Usage limits: I might be wrong, but you don’t need a warrant to fly a helicopter when collecting evidence, why would you need one for a drone?

Data retention: when you’re in public, there should be no expectation of privacy. That said, keep those videos/pictures forever as far as I’m concerned.

Policy: Let the police determine when to deploy a drone, not a public representative.

Abuse Prevention: I agree with 100%.

Weapons: I don’t care if they have sharks with freakin’ laser beams attached to them. But, on the flip side, they better not f up.

 

[paulhackerllc]

There are always so many problems, I just don't know where to begin. Usually these programs involve the department or the city hiring a company to run the program from issuing the tickets and processing them and collecting the fees. At this point, it becomes a money making scheme. A drone tickets becomes more expensive than a municipal tickets because there's a $100 fee attached. Later we find out the company is making all the money and the government is getting very little of it. And they are selling your details. The people didn't sign up for this and we have the same situation we have with red light cameras and fixed speed cameras: no way to contest the ticket, no due process because there isn't an officer to confront, lots of mistakes, and then there are the legal questions.

Where are these drones deployed? At stop signs and red lights where issues arise, where there are complaints, or in disadvantaged neighborhoods to tax the poor people even more even though it's probably true wealthier people are just as likely to violate the traffic laws. But how will anyone know this when 100 police cars and 200 drones are deployed daily to the east side to write tickets at a frenzy pace but no one patrols the west side because the people there won't have that kind of nonsense in their neighborhood. The data ultimately will show the bulk of traffic violations happen on the east side. Especially when there is a stop sign at every intersection going in all directions and no traffic lights anywhere as opposed to rural parkways and avenues with timed lights and little traffic so no one is in a hurry.

What's next, using the license plate readers on drones to record and report the activities of cars that are flagged? Do the drones follow? Will drones be able to detain traffic violators one day? It's coming and again, it's fine when it works but what happens when it gets out of control and it starts to get abused? Do you or your community have the power to do something about it? We've all seen what happens when government gets too much power, goes out of control and overboard....and you can't do anything to stop it because you are helpless or too afraid to speak up or just don't know how to do anything about it.

All I am asking for is guardrails to be set up to keep this under control. Clearly define the roles and responsibilities what can be done and what *cannot* be done. And, penalties for breaking the rules on all sides. This ensures the community gets a say in how these programs are implemented and there is transparency and accountability when there are questions or concerns. Records remain public, fines and fees are approved, training and certifications programs for the people and the equipment are properly maintained and fully disclosed. And more importantly, the rights of the people under the Constitution are respected and intact at all times.

I agree with you 1000%. People need an easy, inexpensive way to contest an infraction.

Personal case in point, I’m driving a rental car in London for a week. Get home to Washington State after a two week vacation, picked up the mail only to find two tickets for $200 each with a picture of the car & plate in the mail from the Municipality of London for driving in a bus lane.

Driving in London sucks!

In some roundabout way, the $400 was charged to the CC I used at the rental car agency. As it turned out, the date on the pictures were before I even arrived in London. The person that rented the car before me actually committed the infraction, but didn’t pay the ticket. So, per rental agency representative the fine reverted to me. What a major pita fighting that one. My point is technology is not infallible and contesting an infraction can take up a lot of your time.