Question about minimum flight altitudes over homes

[SpitFire]

DroneZone is not new. It existed at least since LAANC was enacted.

Thanks, constantly learning.

 

[theDRONEranger]

A key item we must bear in mind, is that while the US government has declared the FAA as the sole source for directives and enforcements of the navigable airspace, there remains an undefined (to my knowledge) area, from ground level to at least the top of a habitable structure including attachments, i.e., antennas, tall trees, etc., above a home (read building), on private property, that is not navigable. A person is free to extend structure, for defined purpose, upward (meeting applicable established codes). This space, with my understanding, has been challenged as to legalities of airspace definition and falls in the non-navigable airspace. In a sense, while the FAA is the sole entity for the control of navigable US airspace (key word is ‘navigable’, the FAA not extended enforcement to the areas of private property below the navigable airspace.

In a sense, to purposely transit the non-navigable airspace of a private property, could, potentially, be considered as trespassing. Thus, possibly subjecting one to penalties.

Now, if all this holds true, then to pilot one’s UAS across another’s private property below the defined navigable airspace, one could potentially be in violation.

Further reading:

Airport Airspace Analysis (AAA) – Airports

Resources for notifying the FAA about proposed construction on or near airports that might affect airspace.

www.faa.gov

https://scholarship.law.ufl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1270&context=flr

Questions posed to the FAA and their responses:

Message:
----------------------
The frequent discussion arises on forums, I am a member with, concerning overflight of personal property. I understand the FAA is the sole authority for navigable airspace within the US. Questions arise: 1) What is the FAA definition of navigable airspace? And, at what altitude? 2) Is it legally permissible to conduct UAS overflight operations over another’s personal property without their permission? - In our discussions, it often arises that some homeowners believe that even at max altitude of 400 feet, overflight is invasion of privacy. 3) Pertaining to UAS operations, what is a safe/legal altitude to conduct overflight of personal property, such as fly over (non-stop)? 4) What is a homeowner’s responsibility as to return of UAS if said UAS has malfunction and crashes on private property without cause of any damage to said property?

Respectfully,
Jeffrey


The FAA response follows in whole:

UAS flying in a yard or over private or business property is considered to be in navigable airspace. Navigable airspace is from the ground up. Anyone flying a UAS in compliance with FAA rules is permitted to fly in all such navigable airspace. It is a federal offense to interfere with the operation of an aircraft, so private property owners and business owners are prohibited from interfering with or preventing the operations of a UAS in navigable airspace even if that space is private property. Any drone found on private property should be reported to the local law enforcement.

See Below 49 U.S.C. § 40103(b)(1).:

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCOD...btitleVII-partA-subparti-chap401-sec40103.pdf​

There are two options to fly a drone legally. Each option has different requirements depending on how the drone is flown.
2 Options for Flying Your Drone

Fly under the Special Rule for Model Aircraft (Section 349)	Fly under the FAA's Small UAS Rule (Part 107)
Fly for hobby or recreation ONLY Register your model aircraft Follow community-based safety guidelines and fly within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization Fly a model aircraft under 55 lbs. unless certified by a community-based organization Fly within visual line-of-sight Never fly near other aircraft Never fly near emergency response efforts	Fly for recreational OR commercial use Register your drone Get a Remote Pilot Certificate from the FAA Fly a drone under 55 lbs. Fly within visual-line-of-sight* Don't fly near other aircraft or over people* Don't fly in controlled airspace near airports without FAA permission* Fly only during daylight or civil twilight, at or below 400 feet* * These rules are subject to waiver.
For more information, see:	For more information, see: Fly under the Small UAS Rule

Recreational Flyers & Modeler Community-Based Organizations


Flying a drone in a reckless manner is a violation of Federal law and FAA regulations and could result in civil fines or criminal action. If you see something that could endanger other aircraft or people on the ground, call local law enforcement.

For help in searching for registrations and any other assistance, then local law enforcement should contact the nearest FAA LEAP (Law Enforcement Agency Program) agent.

Alternatively you can contact your local FAA Flight Standard District Office (FSDO) for assistance.

Flight Standards District Offices (FSDO)


Thank You

Jonathan

From: thedroneranger
Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2020 11:52 PM
To: 9-NATL-UAS-Help (FAA) <[email protected]>
Subject: Message from www.faa.gov: Other

This email was sent through the Federal Aviation Administration's public website. You have been contacted via an email link on the following page:www.faa.gov/uas/contact_us/

 

[dawgpilot]

Someone should write Kittyhawk and inquire why they are showing this on their map.

 

[NG Wildman]

OK, I know it's against the law to down an aircraft. Not going to argue that.
However, this navigable airspace needs to defined as to drones. Most planes, helicopters and even RC planes would not consider it navigable nor safe to fly below the highest tree or structure of a privately owned property.
For example: a back yard has 45' house peak and 60' trees. I wouldn't consider anything below the 60' mark navigable even in a drone without permission. To do so would be ridiculous. Further, you would open yourself up to harassment charges in most areas. I for one would snag a drone from the sky if it broke that minimum height in my back yard. Most laws are based on 'what a reasonable person would do'. I can't really see a 10' floor being safe or correct.

 

[theDRONEranger]

OK, I know it's against the law to down an aircraft. Not going to argue that.

However, this navigable airspace needs to defined as to drones.


I for one would snag a drone from the sky if it broke that minimum height in my back yard.

1. Your acknowledgement
2. Navigable airspace is defined by the FAA
3. Your defiance of the law

???????

 

[NG Wildman]

1. Your acknowledgement
2. Navigable airspace is defined by the FAA
3. Your defiance of the law

???????

Pretty well explained by me, however, your point 3 needs to be changed. There is no defiance. This is a hypothetical. Further, if someone was flying through, that's fine. If it was not obvious, I am talking about nuisance drone fliers...not responsible fly-overs. I have seen where people shot at drones. That's not acceptable to me, however, if someone kept flying over my house; I would investigate and attempt to find out why. If they continued, I would speak to local authorities about the nuisance laws and then the drone would be brought down if the person persisted. Point being I would not, nor should anyone harass people in their own backyard.
I DO NOT CARE if it is legal. It is wrong and as a drone pilot, I support the hobby and do not condone people bring a negative light on it. Just like I don't condone the negative attention brought by motorcyclists' irresponsible operation of their vehicle.
Maybe I am misunderstanding the FAA's definition, but this started, I believe, with a potential 10' floor, which would be irresponsible in the first place. Now to paint a picture of my back yard: it is fenced and there are trees surrounding the majority of the property. For some to fly any lower than 50-60'; they would not be flying over. They would be dropping down at least 40' into airspace over my backyard. I fail to see how anyone would call this anything other than intrusive. As I am often in my back yard when home, for me to witness a drone in this area, would mean it is flying over me or very close to it. Hence, intrusive, unsafe, antagonistic, harassing and down right rude. ANY drone pilot flying in this manner is bring a bad name to responsible drone pilots.
I can go on, but if my point hasn't been made by now (and my opinion will not change); it's not worth anymore explanation.
Thanks for your comment, I think. Hope I helped with your ???????

 

[theDRONEranger]

Pretty well explained by me, however, your point 3 needs to be changed. There is no defiance. This is a hypothetical. Further, if someone was flying through, that's fine. If it was not obvious, I am talking about nuisance drone fliers...not responsible fly-overs. I have seen where people shot at drones. That's not acceptable to me, however, if someone kept flying over my house; I would investigate and attempt to find out why. If they continued, I would speak to local authorities about the nuisance laws and then the drone would be brought down if the person persisted. Point being I would not, nor should anyone harass people in their own backyard.
I DO NOT CARE if it is legal. It is wrong and as a drone pilot, I support the hobby and do not condone people bring a negative light on it. Just like I don't condone the negative attention brought by motorcyclists' irresponsible operation of their vehicle.
Maybe I am misunderstanding the FAA's definition, but this started, I believe, with a potential 10' floor, which would be irresponsible in the first place. Now to paint a picture of my back yard: it is fenced and there are trees surrounding the majority of the property. For some to fly any lower than 50-60'; they would not be flying over. They would be dropping down at least 40' into airspace over my backyard. I fail to see how anyone would call this anything other than intrusive. As I am often in my back yard when home, for me to witness a drone in this area, would mean it is flying over me or very close to it. Hence, intrusive, unsafe, antagonistic, harassing and down right rude. ANY drone pilot flying in this manner is bring a bad name to responsible drone pilots.
I can go on, but if my point hasn't been made by now (and my opinion will not change); it's not worth anymore explanation.
Thanks for your comment, I think. Hope I helped with your ???????

That’s just the point. There is no minimum height for navigable airspace. My query to the FAA showed their response. Personally, I do wish there were a specified altitude when it comes to personal (single family) abodes. But I did not establish the altitude, the FAA did that. I would agree with your statement of: ANY drone pilot flying in this manner is bring a bad name to responsible drone pilots. But you did also state: I for one would snag a drone from the sky if it broke that minimum height in my back yard. There is no minimum height according to the FAA definition of airspace. Would that not be a crime then to willfully cause disruption to an aircraft in flight?

 

[NG Wildman]

That’s just the point. There is no minimum height for navigable airspace. My query to the FAA showed their response. Personally, I do wish there were a specified altitude when it comes to personal (single family) abodes. But I did not establish the altitude, the FAA did that. I would agree with your statement of: ANY drone pilot flying in this manner is bring a bad name to responsible drone pilots. But you did also state: I for one would snag a drone from the sky if it broke that minimum height in my back yard. There is no minimum height according to the FAA definition of airspace. Would that not be a crime then to willfully cause disruption to an aircraft in flight?

I believe it would, however, sometimes that's how you get things changed sometimes. And, although I failed to mention it in my first comment, I would investigate (in case of a mistake) unless the pilot lingered there. Main reason being that 10 AGL in my yard is a hazard to people due to limited space and personal safety come before any law they can throw at me. I am not condoning this for every instance. In my yard it would be unsafe. Other people in the area have had smart-alec kids hovering at bedroom windows etc. Again there are laws that would cover the illegality of this from voyeurism to harassment. An example of not agreeing with the law: in my area, if someone breaks into my house and I have the ability to run out of the back door as opposed to confronting the intruder, I am obliged to. I can tell you (and I am not going to change my opinion) last summer when I walked outside and found 4 guys going through my truck (at 3:37 in the morning) and asked what they were doing, and they told me to "get back in ur blank-blank house old man), I did not. They attacked me and I sent them running a short time afterward. I am prior law enforcement, both military and civilian. I obey every law that I can think of except these two. I am not saying it is legal and I am not condoning breaking the law (as many people do on this site just by where and when they fly in their videos and comments), but there needs to be some common sense regulation. I do have a net that when deployed could safely catch the drone. That would be a last resort if I didn't effect a stop prior to this. That's all I am going to say on the subject.
We all have a responsibility to fly safely and be respectful.
I hope that clarifies earlier reply.

 

[theDRONEranger]

I believe it would, however, sometimes that's how you get things changed sometimes. And, although I failed to mention it in my first comment, I would investigate (in case of a mistake) unless the pilot lingered there. Main reason being that 10 AGL in my yard is a hazard to people due to limited space and personal safety come before any law they can throw at me. I am not condoning this for every instance. In my yard it would be unsafe. Other people in the area have had smart-alec kids hovering at bedroom windows etc. Again there are laws that would cover the illegality of this from voyeurism to harassment. An example of not agreeing with the law: in my area, if someone breaks into my house and I have the ability to run out of the back door as opposed to confronting the intruder, I am obliged to. I can tell you (and I am not going to change my opinion) last summer when I walked outside and found 4 guys going through my truck (at 3:37 in the morning) and asked what they were doing, and they told me to "get back in ur blank-blank house old man), I did not. They attacked me and I sent them running a short time afterward. I am prior law enforcement, both military and civilian. I obey every law that I can think of except these two. I am not saying it is legal and I am not condoning breaking the law (as many people do on this site just by where and when they fly in their videos and comments), but there needs to be some common sense regulation. I do have a net that when deployed could safely catch the drone. That would be a last resort if I didn't effect a stop prior to this. That's all I am going to say on the subject.
We all have a responsibility to fly safely and be respectful.
I hope that clarifies earlier reply.

Personally, I would like to think that any person, UAS pilot or not, would respect the privacy of a home owner. UAS pilots especially, if traversing private property most definitely should maintain a manageable altitude so as NOT to present any misgiving of intent.

 

[NG Wildman]

Personally, I would like to think that any person, UAS pilot or not, would respect the privacy of a home owner. UAS pilots especially, if traversing private property most definitely should maintain a manageable altitude so as NOT to present any misgiving of intent.

I would like to think that too. Unfortunately we have an issue with little pervy kids that like to play games and peek in windows, People like that give drones a bad name. Thanks for the replies.

 

[Trelfar]

A little late to this but I think the numbers being shown on buildings are an incomplete attempt at indicating the building height, because I did find a few tall buildings locally that have higher numbers, and they look about right. I suspect the 10ft markings are a default value for when there is no data on the map about the actual building height.

Example: here's two buildings marked with 108ft and 79ft at the intersection of Shawan Rd and McCormick Rd in Cockeysville, MD:



Below are those buildings as shown on Google Street View for comparison.

Building marked 108ft:



Building marked 79ft:

 

[Thomas B]

Looks about right using the average is 12’ per floor.

 

[TnDronePilot]

Don't forget, Google Earth will measure the exact height of any building or surface and is a good way to find the AGL. I've been playing with DroneLink for my MA2 and wanted to know the exact height of a building that I could pre-program to do a 360 on. Google Earth (at least the free version) will only show you MSL which complicates things when trying to find heights. So what I do is sample the roof of the building (results at the lower right of the screen) and then the parking lot where I would launch from and then just do some subtraction. I obviously add a little to that total so I don't hit the building on a Google miscalculation.