Regional Parks, non government agency land restrictions, etc?

[Citizen Flier]

I live in the north SF Bay Area. Fairly new to Droning. Looks like most of county surrounding me is off limits to Drones. I just checked AirMap -which only indicates National Park Service lands as being restricted. But as many here have pointed out, AirMap can have omissions. In addition we have MMWD -local water dept lands, CA State Parks, County Parks (Open Space). Most of the lands in the county are under jusrisdiction of these organizations. My guess is that they DO have the right to restrict Drones. One experienced pilot argues that ONLY the FAA has the authority to restrict airspace. He also claims that if he flies from a (county jurisdiction) roadside that he CAN fly over the above restricted lands, as they are not restricted by FAA. I wish he was correct, but I suspect that it's wishful thinking on his part. MMWD rules additionally claim they even have the right to confiscate unauthorized drones.

Another friend was cited on State Park lands for filming (land based) for a commercial venture. The rules do clearly state that a permit is required for this. And they received a hefty fine. I would've gotten a permit for that. I also observed a professional TV commercial being droned filmed in MMWD lands. But that was a big operation with cinema grade drones, and I'm sure they had every permit in order. But I suspect there are no permits available for recreational drone pilots. I have also heard of cases where drone pilots were caught for posting videos of the Golden Gate Bridge and other clearly restricted areas. (heavily restricted, and well publicized) I do wonder how much resource is allocated to searching youtube & vimeo for unauthorized drone content -especially if posters don't have restricted areas in their titles. For instance if a remote area (non NPS) appeared in a sequence can the poster really be cited? I'm not into breaking the laws in highly restricted areas. But I am interested in better understanding the realities of lands restricted by non government organizations. And my guess -regrettably- is that they ARE empowered to restrict flights in their lands.

 

[Mr. Salty]

This comes up around five times a day it seems.

The airspace is regulated exclusively by the FAA. Unless there is a state law pre-empting local government bodies from enacting such restrictions, such local agencies can restrict how their land is used with respect to taking off, landing and flying drones from their lands.

Think of it this way: It's legal for you to fly your drone over my property. That doesn't mean I have to allow you to stand on my property to fly your drone.

 

[Brian55316]

This comes up around five times a day it seems.

The airspace is regulated exclusively by the FAA. Unless there is a state law pre-empting local government bodies from enacting such restrictions, such local agencies can restrict how their land is used with respect to taking off, landing and flying drones from their lands.

Think of it this way: It's legal for you to fly your drone over my property. That doesn't mean I have to allow you to stand on my property to fly your drone.

I am a new drone pilot, but I have heard this same example during the FAA webinars, they control anything above the ground, but localities can regulate if you can take off or land from their property.

However, I would also add, if someone has gone through the trouble to make an ordinance or law that you cannot fly somewhere (albeit, not legal), do you really want to upset them and get into an argument about FAA rules with the police or security that show up or infringe on users of that space? I have many park systems near me that say drone flights are not allowed and I know I could stand outside their area and then fly into their airspace, but this could disrupt the area for the park users and/or wildlife. Am I in the right? Yes. But, do I really want to be the guy that pushes the envelope and makes localities try to find other legal ways to restrict me from enjoying this hobby? No, I will try to respect their intention and fly in places where I do not infringe on others or where I can get permission from someone.

 

[kensteele]

I am a new drone pilot, but I have heard this same example during the FAA webinars, they control anything above the ground, but localities can regulate if you can take off or land from their property.

However, I would also add, if someone has gone through the trouble to make an ordinance or law that you cannot fly somewhere (albeit, not legal), do you really want to upset them and get into an argument about FAA rules with the police or security that show up or infringe on users of that space? I have many park systems near me that say drone flights are not allowed and I know I could stand outside their area and then fly into their airspace, but this could disrupt the area for the park users and/or wildlife. Am I in the right? Yes. But, do I really want to be the guy that pushes the envelope and makes localities try to find other legal ways to restrict me from enjoying this hobby? No, I will try to respect their intention and fly in places where I do not infringe on others or where I can get permission from someone.

giving you the benefit of the doubt because you said you're a new pilot. i'm relatively new myself but i have a totally different take on this. of course, i would never get into an argument with law enforcement (i avoid, de-escalation, would rather leave) but i don't consider flying a drone to be disruptive. if you feel like your flying is disruptive, then you should cease flying and just land your drone because regardless of drone laws, park goers shall not be disruptive to other park goers. as soon as you accept the bogus suggestion that flying a drone is disrupting the community and infringing on other citizens rights, you've lost the will to follow thru with this fight. your use of words like pushing the envelope and respecting intentions have no place in the legal world and only tells me your enjoyment of the hobby goes only about as far as the next person will tolerate you. not hating you for that, to each his own, but that's not me, never was me, never will be me. peace.

 

[superstarpup]

I am a new drone pilot, but I have heard this same example during the FAA webinars, they control anything above the ground, but localities can regulate if you can take off or land from their property.

However, I would also add, if someone has gone through the trouble to make an ordinance or law that you cannot fly somewhere (albeit, not legal), do you really want to upset them and get into an argument about FAA rules with the police or security that show up or infringe on users of that space? I have many park systems near me that say drone flights are not allowed and I know I could stand outside their area and then fly into their airspace, but this could disrupt the area for the park users and/or wildlife. Am I in the right? Yes. But, do I really want to be the guy that pushes the envelope and makes localities try to find other legal ways to restrict me from enjoying this hobby? No, I will try to respect their intention and fly in places where I do not infringe on others or where I can get permission from someone.

They aren’t going through the trouble of creating an ordinance or law, they are saving themselves the trouble of challenging the faa. Local governments could sue the faa if they want jurisdiction over the air above them, but they know it will be expensive, and they know they will lose.

So rather than doing that they shift the burden to the citizen. They make an illegal law and then enforce it counting on the fact that most people will comply rather than have the expense of a legal defense.

If you can find a place to legally take off and land, and fly through airspace the faa has deemed legal to fly through, you should be able to without feeling like your “pushing the envelope.” This is a settled matter, and the fact that local municipalities don’t like like it, shouldn’t make a difference.

For the op, if you can take off and land legally, the air above isn’t ruled by the local governments and assuming the airspace is legal to operate in per the faa, you’d be in the right. The problem obviously is that sometimes it’s an expensive and lengthy process to be right.

 

[Citizen Flier]

As stated above, I'm new to Drones, but it has become a passion. As a nature/wildlife photographer I find the option to capture a "bird's eye" view irresistible. My post was just an effort to clarity the rules, as I hear conflicting statements. The reality of having virtually all the lands that I know so well be off limits for my new camera system is a tough pill to swallow. OTOH, I would probably not want to see someone's drone over my BBQ, sunset smoochfest, or any other private moment w my GF or just my own thoughts. And when I do fly, it's always in remote areas at dawn/dusk.

As a mtn biker, I am used to living in one of the most restricted areas in the west. I live in "the birthplace of mtn biking" -yet most trails here are NRZ's. My post was intended to get a clear understanding of the rules.

There is an excellent trail at Lake Tahoe where mtn bikes are allowed on even numbered days only. And I too get annoyed when bike forum posters ask if it's "OK to ride on even # days". I consider that to be a poke in the eye to the land managers that are giving us a privilege. Alas, there are almost NO PRIVILEGES for dronesters where I live. So yes, I need to be sure. And BTW it is BEAUTIFUL here.

 

[kensteele]

As stated above, I'm new to Drones, but it has become a passion. As a nature/wildlife photographer I find the option to capture a "bird's eye" view irresistible. My post was just an effort to clarity the rules, as I hear conflicting statements. The reality of having virtually all the lands that I know so well be off limits for my new camera system is a tough pill to swallow. OTOH, I would probably not want to see someone's drone over my BBQ, sunset smoochfest, or any other private moment w my GF or just my own thoughts. And when I do fly, it's always in remote areas at dawn/dusk.

As a mtn biker, I am used to living in one of the most restricted areas in the west. I live in "the birthplace of mtn biking" -yet most trails here are NRZ's. My post was intended to get a clear understanding of the rules.

There is an excellent trail at Lake Tahoe where mtn bikes are allowed on even numbered days only. And I too get annoyed when bike forum posters ask if it's "OK to ride on even # days". I consider that to be a poke in the eye to the land managers that are giving us a privilege. Alas, there are almost NO PRIVILEGES for dronesters where I live. So yes, I need to be sure. And BTW it is BEAUTIFUL here.

yes i agree; unfortunately there isn't a better mixture like it is for everything else. and trend grows more negative every day. it's our land, the people's land, and it's about time we take it back. when i was growing up, if you really wanted to do something, just go west and you'll likely find somewhere you can do it. not anymore.