SUNSET PHOTOS

[pommy]

Why would you use an ND8 for drone photos with low light? Obviously if you're trying to get motion blur (water or headlights) then sure, you can try and push the exposure up to a couple of seconds (I've gotten sharp 1-2 second exposures with an Air2S is very calm conditions, but didn't need an ND for it). But for a static scene I try to avoid long exposures to the degree possible because drones just aren't that stable and you risk camera shake.

Drones just aren’t stable? I’m not talking 30sec exposure. I’ve had amazing results with ND’s and long exposure in my drones (right from ND8 up to ND2000.

Static scenes do require a fast shutter, I totally agree. But I’ve never seen a static sunset or sunrise at the beach (or anywhere) and that’s what we are talking about. Static beach shots often look fake/too crisp I find.

Meta, as always, you are spot on with the technicalities and are always fact-based. However, this is is photography and a certain portion of it is artistic, so softening of the water, trying to preserve highlights by using ND filters is what I do, and it provides the results I desire.

Here’s a little video where a person recommends using ND filters as well.

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I don’t wish to argue with the “regular gang” so I’ll leave it there.

 

[pommy]

Exactly.
The only reason to use an ND filter for drone stills, is to force the camera to use a slower shutter speed than it otherwise would.
Apart from that, it's not helping and only makes it harder to get a good image.

“Good” is subjective.

 

[MS Coast]

I think everyone agrees that putting an ND filter in front of the lens is useful for blurring moving objects in a still photograph. Waterfalls, rivers, and waves are typical applications.

Here, the objective seems to be blurring moving clouds. Yes, an ND filter could help achieve that. effect.

@pommy, how about sharing a couple or three photos illustrating what you've done with sunsets, ND filters, and long exposures?

Unfortunately, some newcomers to drone photography become convinced that ND filters perform a general magic for all photos that can't be achieved with an increase in shutter speed, reduction in aperture, or reduction in ISO.

 

[pommy]

I think everyone agrees that putting an ND filter in front of the lens is useful for blurring moving objects in a still photograph. Waterfalls, rivers, and waves are typical applications.

Here, the objective seems to be blurring moving clouds. Yes, an ND filter could help achieve that. effect.

@pommy, how about sharing a couple or three photos illustrating what you've done with sunsets, ND filters, and long exposures?

Unfortunately, some newcomers to drone photography become convinced that ND filters perform a general magic for all photos that can't be achieved with an increase in shutter speed, reduction in aperture, or reduction in ISO.

View attachment 168045

Oh wow. That’s a nice response

Sure, tried 8 images and all but 1 says too big. I’m on my phone, so can’t reduce at the moment.

 

[pommy]

Just these two will upload. Most are 20MB+. I’ll try later.

 

[pommy]

Here's a few I could screenshot - love 'em or hate 'em, they are all taken with ND's attached.

 

[Meta4]

“Good” is subjective.

Instead of being coy, perhaps you could explain what you are trying to achieve with the ND filter.
It looks like you have been experimenting with slower shutter speeds to give motion blur for a couple of shots.
Using the ND filter doesn't contribute anything for your other drone stills and they would have looked the same without the filter.

 

[Slim.slamma]

Here's a few I could screenshot - love 'em or hate 'em, they are all taken with ND's attached.

those pix are pretty kewl! were those shot with the M3P?
if I had your hands id cut mines off

 

[pommy]

those pix are pretty kewl! were those shot with the M3P?
if I had your hands id cut mines off

Ha ha

Those are taken with the Air 2S

 

[pommy]

Instead of being coy, perhaps you could explain what you are trying to achieve with the ND filter.
It looks like you have been experimenting with slower shutter speeds to give motion blur for a couple of shots.
Using the ND filter doesn't contribute anything for your other drone stills and they would have looked the same without the filter.

The post was referring directly (and only) to your use of the word “good” image and what makes one good. You are not the authority on what’s good, just what you perceive to be good. There are no facts you can quote to change that.

As far as understand - ND’s control the amount of light that enters the camera. ND filters can therefore be used to slow down the movement of water or clouds, create a soft background or avoid an overexposed image. They can also be used to reduce contrast and create a fluid, soft look in lesser filters.

I did a quick search and found an article which says:

What ND filter should you use to take photos in low light occasions?​

Low light photography can be highly rewarding, especially when using ND filters to create motion blur and shallow depth of field, both of which can add a dramatic effect to photos.

ND2, ND4, ND8 and ND16 filters are commonly used to capture moments such as the sunset or a foggy day and subtle effects in bright light.

ND FILTERS ARE COMMONLY USED FOR SUNSET. That’s all I said in my first post.

Anyway, I don’t disagree with you, you’re a smart fella - but you DO find the negative and make it your mission to point it out. That says a lot about you. Have your tried using a strength- based approach? Look at the other 5 positives in the post I made (that didn’t jump out as WRONG! to you…)

Over and out

 

[Meta4]

The post was referring directly (and only) to your use of the word “good” image and what makes one good. You are not the authority on what’s good, just what you perceive to be good. There are no facts you can quote to change that.

I didn't mean good in the sense of aesthetically pleasing.
It was referring to achieving good exposure. ie .. not too dark or too bright.

I already explained how you can use an ND filter to force a slower shutter speed way back in post #20.
But I'm wondering why you use one for other shots where you aren't trying to blur motion?
I'm pretty sure they don't contribute anything to the image and it would look exactly the same if shot without the filter.

But you choose to use one, so can you explain why?

 

[pommy]

So from all this - I learned how to resize an image on my iMac (ex-Windows user).

Image shot with ND1000.

For those who don't know...

1. In the Preview app on your Mac, open the file you want to change.
2. Choose Tools > Adjust Size, then select “Resample image.”
3. Enter a smaller value in the Resolution field.
   *The new size is shown at the bottom.

Happy flying!

 

[MS Coast]

Here's a few I could screenshot - love 'em or hate 'em, they are all taken with ND's attached.

Photography is highly objective. Here's one individual's opinion on these photos.

I'd say the results are mixed.

• The effects of the longer shutter speed in blurring the moving water are readily apparent in photos 3 and 5. Three is a wonderful photo and a great example of the use of ND filters to blur water motion.
• In photo 1, a slower shutter may have smoothed those parallel wavelets a bit.
• Photos 2 and 6 show some slight blurring of the waves.
• In photos 4 and 5, I don't see any benefit from a slower shutter speed. Nothing was moving.

Did you shoot these in manual mode? Did you use the exposure bias control to darken the images?

I'd encourage you to look at the EXIF data for the photos and note the shutter speed, ISO, and exposure bias for each. Would you share those values here? And the ND values? The shutter speed values would be very interesting to see.

Photos 3 and 5 could not have been shot without the ND filters. I'd expect that 4 and 5 could have been shot without the filters, using auto mode and reducing the shutter speed while keeping ISO at 100 and using the exposure bias to underexpose the shots a bit.

I'm not seeing a benefit for ND filters for sunsets in general, particularly when there's nothing moving in the subject. Unless there are strong winds and clouds low and near the camera, there's just not much motion in most sunset photos. The exception might be cases where you want to underexpose the shot in general and keep the disc of the sun and surrounding area from being too greatly washed out.

 

[BobaFut]

The post was referring directly (and only) to your use of the word “good” image and what makes one good. You are not the authority on what’s good, just what you perceive to be good. There are no facts you can quote to change that.

As far as understand - ND’s control the amount of light that enters the camera. ND filters can therefore be used to slow down the movement of water or clouds, create a soft background or avoid an overexposed image. They can also be used to reduce contrast and create a fluid, soft look in lesser filters.

I did a quick search and found an article which says:

What ND filter should you use to take photos in low light occasions?​

Low light photography can be highly rewarding, especially when using ND filters to create motion blur and shallow depth of field, both of which can add a dramatic effect to photos.

ND2, ND4, ND8 and ND16 filters are commonly used to capture moments such as the sunset or a foggy day and subtle effects in bright light.

ND FILTERS ARE COMMONLY USED FOR SUNSET. That’s all I said in my first post.

Anyway, I don’t disagree with you, you’re a smart fella - but you DO find the negative and make it your mission to point it out. That says a lot about you. Have your tried using a strength- based approach? Look at the other 5 positives in the post I made (that didn’t jump out as WRONG! to you…)

Over and out

So using AEB is too advanced but using an ND filter and long exposures is your advice for the beginner? You can use ND filters to your heart’s content, but I’d argue that it takes more practice, trial-and-error, and knowledge of exposure, scenes, and subjects than bracketing does.

What ND filter should you use to take photos in low light occasions?​

Low light photography can be highly rewarding, especially when using ND filters to create motion blur and shallow depth of field, both of which can add a dramatic effect to photos.

Again, this is goes back to the "beginner" question because there's a good chance that a beginner wouldn't know that an Air2S has a fixed aperture and so an ND won't be of any help with depth of field. I'm not saying your overall point is wrong, just that none of the concepts you are describing are what I'd call "beginner" concepts for a new drone pilot, particularly if they don't have an existing understanding of photography.

I would actually argue that bracketing is a really helpful thing for a beginner to experiment with to ensure they get good shots while also getting familiar with the basic concepts of exposure.

 

[BobaFut]

Here's a few I could screenshot - love 'em or hate 'em, they are all taken with ND's attached.

Ironically most of these would benefit more from bracketing and HDR blending than they do from an ND filter.

 

[Felix le Chat]

I don't know whether you have got around to shooting DNG+JPG, but a RAW file (DNG) will always give you more dynamic range to work with. When you shoot DNG then 'develop' with a RAW editor a few times, you won't look at the JPG option again. It is a learning curve, but there's no such thing as a born photographer - everyone starts out green.
For a well exposed wide dynamic range shot, try 'stacking' (a number of different exposures of the same subject composited into one single image). This can be from the AEB option built into the camera software: or by taking two shots manually. Get your A2S into position, frame the shot you want, tap the screen in the top third to set best exposure for the sky, fire the shutter then tap the bottom third to expose for the ground and fire again. You can stack, or composite the two shots together in lightroom/Photoshop. If you don't use Adobe: there are quite a few freeware stacking programs that were written to deliver scientific quality astrophoto results.

 

[Peeta Howard]

Felix le Chat. Many thanks for your input. My main purpose of getting an AIR2S was so that I could take photographs in RAW format. I must confess that I am still getting used to flying the drone, but my first few attempts at trying to take photographs have been a miserable failure. I want to get shots which are not just overall in focus but "sharp" in the forground detail. Can you ( or anybody else) suggest a few settings for the camera which would achieve this. All help most gratefully received.

 

[Meta4]

my first few attempts at trying to take photographs have been a miserable failure. I want to get shots which are not just overall in focus but "sharp" in the forground detail. Can you ( or anybody else) suggest a few settings for the camera which would achieve this.

Normally, there's nothing to it.
Unless you are trying something unusual and non-standard, you just leave the camera settings to have autofocus take care of that and it should be just fine.

You particularly mention foreground detail.
Normally with drone photography, the foreground isn't particularly close to the camera and the huge depth of field inherent in the wideangle lens easily keeps foreground and background sharply focused.
Can you explain the kind of composition you are trying to shoot?

Better yet, can you upload a couple of examples of shots which haven't worked out and we might be able to find the cause of the issue.
You'd need to upload the original. full-sized image files (jpg is fine) to Google Drive or similar and post a link here.

 

[Peeta Howard]

Meta 4 , Many thanks for your reply and useful info. I think I may have found the answer - IT'S ME ! ! ! I'm a "Pillock". I had totally messed up the camera settings. Having now reset them, the results seem far more promising. Agreed I have not actually been out with the drone but from the shots taken in my "play room" it seems OK.. Hopefully, if the Memsaab is out tomorrow I shall manage to try it all out. Once again Many thanks for your help.

 

[dougga]

I read a lot of comments and did not see this tip, but could easily be buried in them or I just missed it.

Do it over and over and over again. Make some changes in your settings and do it again and again and again. Keep practicing and experimenting until you find what settings are that you like the most.