To VLS or not to VLS? That is the question?!

[mavic6611]

Follow the regs. Always VLOS.

Ok, but why do you have that opinion on it? I'm interested to know if you don't mind elaborating

 

[Doecliff]

I say go for it. If your in an isolated area and aware that you may and are willing to face consequences of your actions. were all grownups and responsible for the decisions we make. If you damage property or hurt someone then you will be held accountable (whether your in VLOS or not). If your beyond VLOS you may face additional consequences, its not like you don't know that and its probably not stopping you now so have at it but try to minimize risk.

 

[Knight Hawk]

Just don't be a Leroy Jenkins.

 

[mavic6611]

Correct we're all grown ups and absolutely have the right to make our own decisions provided we are also grown up enough to face the consequences if something deliberately dangerous was done. In much the same way as speeding in a car etc. Let's face it everyone goes a bit faster than they should from time to time. Anyone who says they haven't is either a liar or completely deluded [emoji3]

 

[DomoDan]

So...I've been thinking about a drone for a long time. A friend took his Mavic Pro on a mountain biking trip with us a couple of weeks and got me even more intrigued. Fast forward to last Wednesday, and I found one in stock at a local camera store and snagged it 16 hours before a flight from Utah to Greece. I flew it once (my first time flying a drone) at night in the dark at my house, before bringing it here. I have flown it a bunch and got some amazing footage, but I an almost NEVER see the drone. Once it gets a couple of hundred feet away you can't see it. I have stayed over the ocean, or made sure that I'm pretty high (several hundred feet) to avoid power lines and what not, but can almost never see it. Many times I've flown it over areas where I've scouted before, but can not see without X-RAY vision because of buildings and nature. In reading this it sounds like this is a big no-no?

 

[mavic6611]

Just don't be a Leroy Jenkins.

Hmm not too sure what he was thinking but hey how, smashed Phantom [emoji53]

 

[Doecliff]

Besides, you could make the argument that flying out over an isolated wilderness lake to an uninhabited island a mile out isn't harming anyone. Now if you decide to fly down the Atlantic city boardwalk your probably gonna get what you deserve. To put out one hard and fast rule that doesn't apply to all situations doesn't make sense.

 

[mavic6611]

Which is exactly what Canada did [emoji23]

 

[dbyantis]

Ok, but why do you have that opinion on it? I'm interested to know if you don't mind elaborating

Since I know that DJI software can take over drone control. I want to be able to recover safely from any situation.VLOS helps with that, if the GO4 App crashes, no camera view, so I need to visually see it to get it home. Don't want to depend on the RTH function working in a critical situation. If something happens to someone due to my drone, eventually, the law will come to me, not a Chinese company. If I follow regs, then I can be more confident that in a worst case scenario, clear conscience.

 

[dbyantis]

So...I've been thinking about a drone for a long time. A friend took his Mavic Pro on a mountain biking trip with us a couple of weeks and got me even more intrigued. Fast forward to last Wednesday, and I found one in stock at a local camera store and snagged it 16 hours before a flight from Utah to Greece. I flew it once (my first time flying a drone) at night in the dark at my house, before bringing it here. I have flown it a bunch and got some amazing footage, but I an almost NEVER see the drone. Once it gets a couple of hundred feet away you can't see it. I have stayed over the ocean, or made sure that I'm pretty high (several hundred feet) to avoid power lines and what not, but can almost never see it. Many times I've flown it over areas where I've scouted before, but can not see without X-RAY vision because of buildings and nature. In reading this it sounds like this is a big no-no?

Depending on the regulation where you were flying, but technically, in the US, that is a "no-no". When I see my MP far off, I agree that it is hard to determine the orientation, but I can see it and the surrounding area for others in the air.

 

[leenanj]

I guess we all have our own ideas and opinions on VLS and I'm intrigued to know what you guys think/feel about it. What's your opinion and why?

I have my own opinions on it which are simple, being that I believe flying beyond VLS is perfectly fine in the hands of a pilot with enough experience, common sense and knows and respects thoroughly all the do's and donts!
I personally feel so much safer flying through the camera rather than looking at the aircraft directly for so many different reasons.

I personally believe it's a much safer way do fly.

What do you think and why?

I agree with you, I always fly through the camera. As long as I am at a safe altitude.

The Mavic is to small and even being in VLS it is still hard to see what it is doing.

Just like an experienced pilot, some can fly on instruments alone better than looking out the cockpit.

 

[mavic6611]

So...I've been thinking about a drone for a long time. A friend took his Mavic Pro on a mountain biking trip with us a couple of weeks and got me even more intrigued. Fast forward to last Wednesday, and I found one in stock at a local camera store and snagged it 16 hours before a flight from Utah to Greece. I flew it once (my first time flying a drone) at night in the dark at my house, before bringing it here. I have flown it a bunch and got some amazing footage, but I an almost NEVER see the drone. Once it gets a couple of hundred feet away you can't see it. I have stayed over the ocean, or made sure that I'm pretty high (several hundred feet) to avoid power lines and what not, but can almost never see it. Many times I've flown it over areas where I've scouted before, but can not see without X-RAY vision because of buildings and nature. In reading this it sounds like this is a big no-no?

As long as you understand the telemetry data on the screen and keep an eye on your altitude etc, and make sure all your return to home settings are set up correctly and know the area enough to ensure you don't smack into a tree or building then you'll be good mate

 

[mavic6611]

Since I know that DJI software can take over drone control. I want to be able to recover safely from any situation.VLOS helps with that, if the GO4 App crashes, no camera view, so I need to visually see it to get it home. Don't want to depend on the RTH function working in a critical situation. If something happens to someone due to my drone, eventually, the law will come to me, not a Chinese company. If I follow regs, then I can be more confident that in a worst case scenario, clear conscience.

No one could ever argue against that point mate. It's airing on the side of Caution which is absolutely understandable. But it's only a matter of time until you decide to cut the apron string. I'd say there's more chance of making a pilot error whilst flying VLS due to disorientation of the aircraft etc. Flying through the camera is much safer. Although I understand you can still fly through the camera with VLS but if you're 100ft away flying a little Mavic it's not going to be any easier to recover from a failure than if you were out of VLS let's be honest. However I do respect what you're saying because you are being sensible in your own way and there's no wrong in that.

 

[DomoDan]

As long as you understand the telemetry data on the screen and keep an eye on your altitude etc, and make sure all your return to home settings are set up correctly and know the area enough to ensure you don't smack into a tree or building then you'll be good mate

Yeah, I feel like I'm very responsible with it. Flying high above the water or the ground in the countryside of Crete seems harmless. I would never do it in a congested or unknown area. But seeing it...that thing is **** near impossible to see. If I only flew it when I could see it then it wouldn't be nearly as fun.

I flew it about two miles across the bay to near the opposite shoreline to checkout some boats. That was cool. I'll post a video later...

 

[mavic6611]

Sounds cool mate, I look forward to seeing your video [emoji3]

 

[Mavman]

Almost all of the close calls I have had have been when I HAVENT been flying through FPV, in VLOS. Easy to get disoriented and hard to judge relative distance of a speck like the Mavic. Honestly, I think VLOS is one of those rules that doesn't REALLY help anything, it's just made to feel some Nanny-state people/regulators fuzzy inside.

 

[mavic6611]

Exactly mate! The reason I created this post was through the intrigue of people's thoughts and opinions on the whole topic. I don't think there is any right or wrong. I think it's preference. But I genuinely think alot of people are genuinely afraid to admit they fly beyond VLS through the fear of having the finger pointed at them. But the more people putting their hand up and saying they fly beyond VLS seems to be encouraging others to speak out and say they do also. It's frowned upon but that doesn't make it wrong, I agree with you and believe it's a much safer way to fly.

 

[Johnmcl7]

I keep my drone within VLOS partially because it's legal to do so and partially because if anything goes wrong I have a much better chance of saving the Mavic, a good number of the lost or crashed Mavics here partially occur because the Mavic was completely out of sight and it wasn't possible to see what it was doing when something has gone wrong nor get to it quickly. I still use the phone screen to control the Mavic as it's difficult to see it's orientation but close enough that I can still see the Mavic in the sky, I generally am out walking or cycling with the Mavic so it's easy enough to pack it up, move on and put it back up again further along.

John

 

[mavic6611]

I keep my drone within VLOS partially because it's legal to do so and partially because if anything goes wrong I have a much better chance of saving the Mavic, a good number of the lost or crashed Mavics here partially occur because the Mavic was completely out of sight and it wasn't possible to see what it was doing when something has gone wrong nor get to it quickly. I still use the phone screen to control the Mavic as it's difficult to see it's orientation but close enough that I can still see the Mavic in the sky, I generally am out walking or cycling with the Mavic so it's easy enough to pack it up, move on and put it back up again further along.

John

That's a very fair point you make there John, there's nothing wrong with following the rules if you want to do that and for any other reasons you have.
But I'm not too sure you're correct when you mentioned part of the issues with other pilots losing drones as a partial result of not flying VLS. If you look at the majority you will find its due to total pilot error like not securing batteries correctly or swiping auto land instead of RTH etc. All of which are innocent mistakes mainly from inexperienced pilots and let's face it, anyone flying VLS isn't exactly flying within 50ft of themselves, plus most people will likely lose orientation especially in a situation of panic. Hence I don't feel flying VLS would really make any difference at all.

 

[Johnmcl7]

That's a very fair point you make there John, there's nothing wrong with following the rules if you want to do that and for any other reasons you have.
But I'm not too sure you're correct when you mentioned part of the issues with other pilots losing drones as a partial result of not flying VLS. If you look at the majority you will find its due to total pilot error like not securing batteries correctly or swiping auto land instead of RTH etc. All of which are innocent mistakes mainly from inexperienced pilots and let's face it, anyone flying VLS isn't exactly flying within 50ft of themselves, plus most people will likely lose orientation especially in a situation of panic. Hence I don't feel flying VLS would really make any difference at all.

I'm not referring to simple pilot error cases - there's numerous cases on this forum where the Mavic has been completely out of visual range, it's disconnected and then people have posted asking for help here to try and find what happened as at that point the camera you're relying on is now useless. There's been some great help in tracking down the crashed drones but if the owner was within VLOS, they would have been able to see what the drone was doing and potentially saved it before it crashed.

There is a curious sense of denial about VLOS (as well as an odd inconsistency with the acceptance of its illegality), if you can't see the drone at all then quite simply there is more risk - it's up to those flying the drones whether it's worth the risk to them particularly given the significant range the Mavic has which can mean it can take too long to get to its location when something goes wrong. There was a video posted recently where a Mavic user has been flying over the memorial at the south of the UK and ended up losing it, in his video he explained everything he believed he did wrong but he never even mentioned that flying out of VLOS was one of the main contributing factors. He'd been unable to distinguish the landscape on the Mavic's camera and because it was completely out of VLOS he hadn't realised the Mavic wasn't flying in the correct direction, if he'd been able to see the Mavic he'd have been able to get it home without issue.

John