Told I couldn't Fly Over Resort....

[RE Photo]

So while taking the image, I was told by the ski resort security I could not drone here. Because its private property.

I am pretty sure that's BS... but I had what I needed (this was a paid job) and I thought it best to just leave. But I am also starting to think that someone needs to make
a stand on things like this and press the point.

Regardless of what I should have done... and I in the clear ion this? I took off from a COUNTY ROAD... I am 107a, insured, and drone is registered. From the Airmap screenshot you can see im 100% in a clear zone.



So next time, should I call their bluff? Or is discretion the better part of valor?

 

[Vic Moss]

The resort can absolutely tell you where you can't fly from. If you were standing on their property, they had every right to have you land.

If you were outside their property, or on private property, they don't have that right.

 

[BobaFut]

I'd like to say my response would be to tell them to pound sand, but I'm kind of a coward so who knows. Weird that security was right there though. Can't say I've ever seen security at a ski resort...but assuming you hadn't walked onto their property after takeoff, they can't do jack.

 

[Vic Moss]

I'd like to say my response would be to tell them to pound sand,

... and that would have likely ended up with you being escorted off of the property and trespassed from returning. Landowners, security or otherwise, have every right to keep people from flying on their property.

but I'm kind of a coward so who knows. Weird that security was right there though. Can't say I've ever seen security at a ski resort...but assuming you hadn't walked onto their property after takeoff, they can't do jack.

Having grown up in the middle of ski country in Colorado, and having worked at more than one ski resort, I can promise you that security it always there. You just don't always see them. And one of the best ways to find them these days to put a drone in the air.

 

[BobaFut]

... and that would have likely ended up with you being escorted off of the property and trespassed from returning. Landowners, security or otherwise, have every right to keep people from flying on their property.

Thanks, but the OP stated they launched from a county road, and I'll note that my response explicitly assumed he was NOT on private property when confronted.

 

[FLDave]

Of course you can't fly over people. You can't trespass on private property. So, flying over the ski resort would be a bad idea. Flying from the perimeter where you wouldn't have clear view of the drone and it's surrounding environment would also be inadvisable. A lost drone would be irretrievable.

 

[Vic Moss]

Thanks, but the OP stated they launched from a county road,

I missed that part. If he was on a county road, they had no right to tell him to land.

and I'll note that my response explicitly assumed he was NOT on private property when confronted.

 

[RE Photo]

Of course you can't fly over people. You can't trespass on private property. So, flying over the ski resort would be a bad idea.

Take a look at the image. The view from the drone is to the south. The "orange" lift is the northern-most lift at the property.... and I am well belong flying over ANY people.... and this would be why I chose this vantage. No flying over anything but snow and rabbits... and yes, flying from a public road....


I do know the rules, and I do fly legally always.

 

[AMann]

Are they on Forest Service land? If so, it’s not private property, it’s a permitted operational area- if you walk in from outside, you would be breaking FS rules for it as they hold a special use permit that allows them to restrict access as deemed necessary, but it’s not legally “trespassing “. As for what you did flying in from outside of their area and not controlling the drone while standing inside of it, they don’t have jurisdiction nor of the air over them. If they own the land outright, they can only ask you to not physically stand in their property. Flying over it is the FAA’s jurisdiction.

 

[BobaFut]

Take a look at the image. The view from the drone is to the south. The "orange" lift is the northern-most lift at the property.... and I am well belong flying over ANY people.... and this would be why I chose this vantage. No flying over anything but snow and rabbits... and yes, flying from a public road....


I do know the rules, and I do fly legally always.

I'm curious about this being a paid job, presumably not by the resort. I've had trouble doing stock photos with brand names on buildings, so is the resort being identifiable an issue? Not trying to call you out, I'm genuinely curious since I'd love to sell photos/videos at some point.

 

[RE Photo]

Are they on Forest Service land? If so, it’s not private property, it’s a permitted operational area- if you walk in from outside, you would be breaking FS rules for it, but it’s not legally “trespassing “. As for what you did flying in from outside of their area and not controlling the drone while standing inside of it, they don’t have jurisdiction nor of the air over them. If they own the land outright, they can only ask you to not physically stand in their property. Flying over it is the FAA’s jurisdiction.

Thanks! Thats 100% what I thought.

See the AirMap. FS land is marked in red, well to my west. The blue dot shows where I was- no flight restrictions at all I can see...

 

[SmilingOgre]

Ya, kinda, maybe, mostly.......

You are dead right taking off from a county road and not flying over people you are "legal" at the end of the day. However, that could be one long, aganizing day. I recently went through insuring a no problem flight for my grandaughter's wedding in Crested Bluff Colorado. They have a ski resort there which also "prohibits" drones. The police knew little to nothing about drone legalities and initially told me I would probablly have to get a permit. I'm thinking from who other than you? They followed by telling me to do my own study of the area. After studying sectionals etc., I wrote them back and insured them the area of the wedding was in uncontrolled airspace and that I would not be flying over they ski resort. They then gave me the Ok. My point here is they obviously had no idea what athority the ski resort actually had and were ready to enforce the resorts statement without qualification of airspace vs land privilages. I'm confident if the resort popo lodged a complaint I would end up living through a huge headache. It would have also put a huge blemish on the wedding ceremony. In the hood having the last word will get you shot. I the real world being "right" is often a dubious distinction. Pick your battles with wisdom.

 

[sar104]

Unfortunately that entire area is privately owned, including the "county road" by which I assume you mean Willow Draw Road, which is owned by CANYONS RESORT VILLAGE ASSOCIATION INC (Parcel # WWDDAM-WWD8). So they were entitled to request that you not fly from their property.

 

[SmilingOgre]

Sounds like a good day to me. End of the day you got your shot and the security guard got to go home to his trailer, drink beers, and watch NASCAR. “Look, they‘re makin a left turn!” Everybody’s happy.

 

[IMADMAN]

Unfortunately that entire area is privately owned, including the "county road" by which I assume you mean Willow Draw Road, which is owned by CANYONS RESORT VILLAGE ASSOCIATION INC (Parcel # WWDDAM-WWD8). So they were entitled to request that you not fly from their property.

View attachment 157841

Kinda thought so. I don't know any security guards, that will go off site to enforce their rules.

 

[vindibona1]

I see a lot of questions and issues here.
1) Is the road part of park property?
2) Did you keep your drone within line of sight and able to see it the entire flight?
3) If you were on the country road how did security know where you were flying?

Vic Moss is correct. You can launch and land from public property usually without restriction and fly in FAA's airspace as long as its not restricted. But if the road is park property then they can prohibit drone flights from there.

As far as the guy advising you to tell the guy to "pound sand" the last thing you want to do is mouth off to a Park City security guard who could have you cited for tresspassing and have you banned from the property for life. You don't want to do that. Always be polite and respectful, even if you have a disagreement, particularly with authorities.

 

[akdrone]

Of course you can't fly over people. You can't trespass on private property. So, flying over the ski resort would be a bad idea. Flying from the perimeter where you wouldn't have clear view of the drone and it's surrounding environment would also be inadvisable. A lost drone would be irretrievable.

The question isn't about flying over people. Doing so momentarily in transit from A to B is, I think, legal. Correct me if I'm wrong. You can't fly over a group of people...a concert...a large collection. Would a ski slope be considered such? Probably be some and probably not by others. I can be argued but what can't be argued is that if he launches from public property he can legally fly over their property and they can't legally stop him. One could go at great lengths to discuss how to do so safely but the point is he can do so legally. They might also film him and report him to the FAA. Or maybe call the cops who might well stop him regardless of the law. It does get all complicated - or can. Personally, if I wanted to make a point and assert my perceived rights - which I think is admirable - I would first consult a lawyer to ensure I was on firm legal ground. Consulting with the FAA would also be a good move. There are knowledgeable people here that will probably chime in. In some places drone operators have been arrested based on general statutes along the lines of "endangering others" or some such thing unrelated to the use of a drone per se. I'd be getting me some 2nd and 3rd opinions.

 

[BobaFut]

I see a lot of questions and issues here.
1) Is the road part of park property?
2) Did you keep your drone within line of sight and able to see it the entire flight?
3) If you were on the country road how did security know where you were flying?

Vic Moss is correct. You can launch and land from public property usually without restriction and fly in FAA's airspace as long as its not restricted. But if the road is park property then they can prohibit drone flights from there.

As far as the guy advising you to tell the guy to "pound sand" the last thing you want to do is mouth off to a Park City security guard who could have you cited for tresspassing and have you banned from the property for life. You don't want to do that. Always be polite and respectful, even if you have a disagreement, particularly with authorities.

1) I didn’t advise him to tell them to pound sand. I didn’t advise anything.
2) If you aren’t on their land they can’t have you cited for anything **
3) obviously the best thing to do is not escalate the situation, and you have to choose your battles wisely, but the context of the discussion was a lament about being bullied about operating a drone in a legal way and the lack of recourse pilots have. It’s bull and it would be nice to, for once, just tell the Karens to (moderator removed)

**just don’t crash your drone on their property!

 

[AMann]

Thanks! Thats 100% what I thought.

See the AirMap. FS land is marked in red, well to my west. The blue dot shows where I was- no flight restrictions at all I can see...

Yeah but who’s land were you standing on?

 

[JimWest]

I'm curious about this being a paid job, presumably not by the resort. I've had trouble doing stock photos with brand names on buildings, so is the resort being identifiable an issue? Not trying to call you out, I'm genuinely curious since I'd love to sell photos/videos at some point.

It depends what the photo is used for. If the photo is used for advertising or corporate purposes, you generally can't use it unless you have a release. But if its for editorial (magazines, newspapers, textbooks, editorial websites, and so on), you do not (with rare exceptions). The downside, of course, is that shooting stock editorial images won't earn you much money these days. I shoot drone images all the time and occasionally they have to be restricted to editorial only, but you certainly can do it.