UK - Taking off from public footpaths

[landmark orbiter]

Hi,

I’m of the view that one can always take off from public footpaths if otherwise safe to do so.

However, what if a public path is on National Trust land for example, they really don’t like drones!

Do you UK folk agree or not?

Thanks!

 

[js47]

As far as I understand it, public footways only give right of way by foot. You can't even ride a horse or a bicycle. Also, I think generally the bye-laws of the land that the footway crosses still apply to the footway.

So to be safe, assume it is not allowed. But of course the only way to find out for certain would be if you got a case taken to court.

 

[Yorkshire_Pud]

Personally I think you'd be pushing things, or simply "in the wrong", taking off from a public footpath within NT property. They probably own the land even if the path is a "right of way".
Better, I think, to take off outside their boundaries and overfly whilst YOU are REMAIN outside their boundaries. If applicable do remember about flying over crowds etc..
Don't try to play the role of auditor/'muck'-stirrer, IMO they do us no favours.

 

[old man mavic]

@landmark orbiter ,irrespective of whether it is a public footpath ,or more commonly known as a public right of way ,if it is still on the NT owned land ,then any TOAL restrictions that are in place still apply
when it comes to NT, or any other organisations that govern land use, then although they cannot prevent you from flying over their land ,unless there is a specific FRZ in place ,such as the one at Windsor Castle ,and many other places ,they can still if they want to ,take out a civil case against you for trespass, or nuisance ,and they have much deeper pockets than most members of the general public do
where I live in Wales we have the Brecon Beacons National Park a huge swath of land, that covers a great area, they do not allow drones to TOAL on their land , and rigerously enforce this ,with rangers, who patrol the Park, and can appear from noware any time ,had a run in with one of them recently, flying in an area of the park ,and his main arguement, for me not being allowed to fly there, was good old TOAL,after i had landed, we had a conversation in a calm manner ,he putting his points accross , and me mine on the subject ,the outcome was that he aggreed that the park did not control the Airspace ,and as long as i had the particular land owners permission
where i wished to fly ,then there was nothing he could do to prevent me from flying ,as long as i followd the drone code,for the drone i was flying , in this case a Mini 3pro, and didnt endanger people or wildlife ,so as long as you ask the land owners permission, where the foot path crosses their land ,even if it is in a NT area ,you should be good to go,just check for any airspace restictions ,before you fly

 

[landmark orbiter]

Thanks, what is a TOAL, “Take off and land restrictions”? How do I find out those?

Why do the BBS have a total ban? It is not on Drone Assist or noflydrones, how do you find out about these?

 

[landmark orbiter]

As for the Brecon Beacons, how can they, in law, have a total TOAL ban?

 

[landmark orbiter]

I guess the question should be “where can I ever take off from”, if I don’t have the landowner’s specific permission?

 

[Yorkshire_Pud]

As for the Brecon Beacons, how can they, in law, have a total TOAL ban?

Within certain limitations the land owner has the right to specify how the land may be used.

 

[landmark orbiter]

Who can possibly own the Brecon Beacons though?

 

[Yorkshire_Pud]

Who can possibly own the Brecon Beacons though?

https://www.beacons-npa.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/basic-facts-about-the-brecon-beacons-national-park.pdf

 

[landmark orbiter]

Thanks yes the National park owns just 16% of the land. This is literally the “middle of nowhere” so looks like I’ll be “jumping in the air” as I launch and catch my drone

 

[Yorkshire_Pud]

Levitating might be more appropriate and did you take note of OMM's " , and rigoroursly enforce this ,with rangers, who patrol the Park, and can appear from nowhere any time ,"

 

[landmark orbiter]

I’m in communication with their communications officer atm. This kind of anti-drone blanket ban really winds me up. I think the Malverns are like this too.

 

[old man mavic]

@landmark orbiter ,its the fact that the designated area is a national Park ,and run by a trust ,and they say its just easier for them to put a blanket ban on drones ,rather than allow them in certain areas ,there are also different councils within the parks boundry, who can and do impose drone flight restrictions with local bylaws on TOAL
a lot of the farmers and home owners, who have land within the Parks boundaries,have to abide by certain conditions when it comes to how they use their property
and many many of them do not own their property ,but rent it from the parks administrators,
of course if you really want to fly at a specific place in the park ,then for a substancial fee ,they will allocate a ranger to you for the day ,who will accompany you, and make sure you only fly where they have aggreed,of course all this has to be set up in advance ,and with the state of the weather here in the UK, its very difficult to know if the planned date ,will be flying weather
there are a few ways to get around the ban on TOAL, such as early morning,or late evening when there are very few people around ,and on many occasions i have had a pleasent days flying ,and never once had any negative responce ,or met a ranger ,i have also flown on many farms ,with the owners permission

 

[Felix le Chat]

Hi,

I’m of the view that one can always take off from public footpaths if otherwise safe to do so.

However, what if a public path is on National Trust land for example, they really don’t like drones!

Do you UK folk agree or not?

Thanks!

In the UK, any footpath that crosses land owned by private individuals operates under the rule of PERMISSIONED ACCESS: the landowner grants the general public the right to cross their land as an indulgence which they can maintain or withdraw as they see fit. A PROW doesn't operate under a set of independent rules. Landowner permission for TOAL still should be sought and obtained. If a Public Right Of Way (PROW) crosses land administered by a parish council or local authority, that footpath still operates within the rules set by local bye-laws. If the council restrict the use of drones within their boundaries, public footpaths STILL fall under that bye-law.

 

[landmark orbiter]

If only there was a simple way to check local bye-laws!

 

[Felix le Chat]

If only there was a simple way to check local bye-laws!

The majority of 'em just make it up as they go along. As far as I'm aware there still isn't one council that has a coherent policy that isn't ultra vires (not within the remit of their legal authority to enforce)

 

[HappyDrone]

As a landowner with a public footpath, in our case this is a legal right of way which must be maintained, in fact there are a whole host of legal requirements attached to it, for example not putting a bull over 10 months old in the field, blocking the path or failing to provide a style for the public to climb over. Removing a public right of way is by no mean feat and almost impossible.

There is also debate over picnicking on a public footpath, which is perhaps tempered against it being a nuisance e.g. interfering with other users rights of way. The public, however, is not trespassing when stopping to eat a sandwich, taking a drink or resting, this is how journeying across the countryside used to be.

What’s unclear what the remedy would be for someone who pauses to launch a drone, as once in the air controlling it would be no worse than talking on a mobile phone. Bothering livestock or disturbing wildlife is perhaps a separate issue, akin to someone’s dog chasing cattle or sheep. Would flying over a coastline really be a considered a disturbance to wildlife? It perhaps depends on if there's a seal colony, nesting birds and so forth, but don’t dogs present a similar problem?

The answers are not clear cut, the National Trust will most certainly have the last word, but erecting signs that say “No picnicking” perhaps misstates walkers' rights and possibly oversteps the mark.

Hopefully fairness will prevail and the NT will adopt a more inclusive stance in the future. For example the Clent Hills are local to me and NT, I can see no real reason why drones cannot be flown there, in fact the footage that exists on YT promotes this beauty spot rather well !