What do the Canadian regs define as a “bystander”?

[Vladivar]

So I took and passed the Transport Canada - Basic RPAS exam and have my Mavic Air all registered and marked as needed. But I am wondering about one aspect of the rules I now have to abide by.

The specific topic is regarding “bystanders” and the need to be at least 100ft away horizontally and never over them.

The rules really don’t define what a bystander actually is. I would assume it refers to members of the general public that just happen to be around while you are flying, which is fair enough.

But what about a situation where you are taking video/photos of a private event, on private property, and where all the attendees are aware of the flight and have no issues with it (implied permission). Is it ok then to fly over and within 100ft of them??

The rules state that anyone that is part of the flying “crew” are exempt from the bystander rule, I wonder if having permission to fly from all the attendees of a private event makes them, by default, part of your “crew”.

 

[Casper52]

That is a good question. I think I would just do it, because no one is likely to rat you out to TC. However, if by some crazy reason the drone collided with someone and injured them I am not at all sure of the ramifications. I think I understand the rule from a complete stranger side, but not from a group of ‘friends’ side. Maybe we have some legal minds who could help. Or a call to your local TC office and ask them directly. However, my experience with direct questions to TC has never really lead to any direct answers. I will keep an eye on this thread.

 

[AlanTheBeast]

TC are very bad at defining things. Here's my take on it.

There is the pilot/operator and his "observer" to help him steer clear of things.

But that applies to 'advanced' and the "observer" has to be trained as an observer, know the rules, and has to be able to communicate with the pilot. (For example if the pilot is FPV then the observer will keep the drone (Pardon me to hell: RPAS) in view and tell the pilot of the situation). IOW he can't be your beer drinkin' buddy from the legion out with you for fun.

So anyone other than you is likely a bystander. There is no such thing as getting permission from anyone to enter the 30m safety buffer.

That's my take. Sucks to own a drone in Canada, eh?

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Canada rules might be blurry, we too in Australia have slightly different rules to some, eg we have no limit in the rules from buildings, but 30m (100') laterally from people . . .
I think most of these new licensing / registration and rules are similar in the western countries where ICOA influence is great . . .

2. Development of UAS Regulation

www.icao.int

In Australia, that group scenario is definitely off limits as described in the OP . . . for hobbyists at least.
For RePL holders (equivalent to US part 107) they can jump through a few hoops and it can be 15m from people who have agreed to being filmed.

 

[Tbredhed]

My understanding of the regs is a bystander is someone that is not under your direct control.
Example you are getting a family picture and they are all standing together for the shot, they are under your control and you may be closer than 100'. anybody else that happens to be in the area that is not part of your group and is not the pilot or observer is a bystander.
Hope this helps.
Cheers

 

[BigAl07]

The rules state that anyone that is part of the flying “crew” are exempt from the bystander rule, I wonder if having permission to fly from all the attendees of a private event makes them, by default, part of your “crew”.

Since TC has worked so closely with the FAA to help create the rules I would imagine they are also using the same logic as the FAA in regards to "Flight Crew".

In the US (FAA) if you are not actually part of the flight crew (responsible for some aspect of ensuring a Safe Flight) then you are not allowed to be flown over/near. Only TC can answer this 100% but I'd say everyone not part of the flight crew are bystanders regardless of what they have allowed/agreed to.

 

[Casper52]

I agree with BigAI07, in that the FAA and TC work very closely on most Aviation Issues. In my first post I said I would do the flight, but after some more thinking and reading all the replies I think I would make sure my flight path was around the group shooting pictures/video at an angle. Depending on the site location and group set-up that might, or might not, be easy to do. I also think that TC, and perhaps even the Courts, could well want to make an example of anyone breaking the new rules.

 

[Ralph thompson]

It’s actually quite simple, a person is either a member of the Crew (meaning PIC, VO or a person who has been briefed, is aware of the risks and is participating in the Operation and has been recorded as being part of the Crew, records to be kept for 12 mths) or there not. Anyone who is not a member of the Crew, is a bystander. ?

 

[AlanTheBeast]

It’s actually quite simple, a person is either a member of the Crew (meaning PIC, VO or a person who has been briefed, is aware of the risks and is participating in the Operation and has been recorded as being part of the Crew, records to be kept for 12 mths) or there not. Anyone who is not a member of the Crew, is a bystander. ?

Is there such a definition from TC? If so I haven't located it. Please provide a link if you have one.

 

[nevernamed]

one of my friends contacted TC about this after the new rules came out.. with a family photo scenario.. bascially they told him that if everybody there knows about the drone, then the 30m distance thing is moot.. i mean. really, if they don't complain to TC, what are you violating exactly?

not only that. we just witnessed some idiot flying a drone in NFZ airspace in toronto for the raptors win and parade.. he flew over millions and so far TC has done nothing.. don't over think it..

 

[Harrison443]

one of my friends contacted TC about this after the new rules came out.. with a family photo scenario.. bascially they told him that if everybody there knows about the drone, then the 30m distance thing is moot.. i mean. really, if they don't complain to TC, what are you violating exactly?

not only that. we just witnessed some idiot flying a drone in NFZ airspace in toronto for the raptors win and parade.. he flew over millions and so far TC has done nothing.. don't over think it..

Would you be able to get a copy of the e-mail your friend received from TC to post here?

 

[Meta4]

we just witnessed some idiot flying a drone in NFZ airspace in toronto for the raptors win and parade.. he flew over millions and so far TC has done nothing.. don't over think it..

What do you expect TC to do?
How would you expect them to be able to do anything about it?
Were they there? Did they see the incident?
Did they see the guy doing the flying?
Is there some other way they would be aware of the incident and the identity of the flyer?

 

[ElectroBald]

So I took and passed the Transport Canada - Basic RPAS exam and have my Mavic Air all registered and marked as needed. But I am wondering about one aspect of the rules I now have to abide by.

The specific topic is regarding “bystanders” and the need to be at least 100ft away horizontally and never over them.

The rules really don’t define what a bystander actually is. I would assume it refers to members of the general public that just happen to be around while you are flying, which is fair enough.

But what about a situation where you are taking video/photos of a private event, on private property, and where all the attendees are aware of the flight and have no issues with it (implied permission). Is it ok then to fly over and within 100ft of them??

The rules state that anyone that is part of the flying “crew” are exempt from the bystander rule, I wonder if having permission to fly from all the attendees of a private event makes them, by default, part of your “crew”.

A bystander is someone of the general public, therefore if someone approach your position in a public area, you have to keep your drone at 100 feet from your position (chapter IX). You then have to advise the person about the regulation and ask them to back up so you can land at your position. If you are on your property, and you have friends and family members over, technically the become observers, and as long as you let them know of the danger, this is not a problem, but don’t forget that if you fly high in a residential area, you still have to respect the neighbours’ privacy.

Having said that, if you fly in a public area, and you have friends or family members with you, they have to be included in your log as crew members, this way, if the authorities chalenge you, you can show them your flight plan and log with their names, otherwise, if you are a basic pilot, it is up to $1000.

 

[Mort7]

I CBA to read all these answers, but this is my interpretation:

Crew: ANYONE mentioned in flight log as crew. Make sure to list their role!

Other Persons Involved in the Operation: Anyone that you have given a briefing to regarding the drone, and that is involved in the operation. this could be runners at a marathon you're shooting at, or the people you approached in the park and asked "hey, want some cool shots of you and the kids?" as these people ARE involved in the operation, and are not crew.

Bystanders: This means FREESTANDING BODIES. People whom are outside, AND not involved in your operation! people inside vehicles or buildings do not count as bystanders!

I hope this helps, the FAQ I found can be found HERE, and this information comes from Transport Canada indirectly through Coastal Drone Co, the team that communicated with TC on the issues listed in the FAQ.